Tithing. What are Christians suppose to do?

[GdaxBbb]

Being a Christian is indeed an ongoing practice. Giving is likewise an ongoing practice. Tithing is a requirement of the OT Law and has nothing to do with being a Christian.

You, like Jackson123, make the same mistake many make, but you express it in an ugly way. Here is your version, in simple equations:

giving (as a Christian) = tithing
not tithing = not giving anything

Both are patently false. A Christian may give generously without any thought of "tithing". There is no percentage given in the New Testament as to what Christians are to give, so there is no "above and beyond" about it. You're making an argument from silence.

Your closing comment is nothing but self-righteous slander. You know nothing at all about how much I give, but you assume that because I argue against "tithing" that I give nothing. You are dead wrong. In future, kindly keep your ignorant personal attacks to yourself.

seems like you're playing semantics, we know "tithing" as in old testament "tithing" is not required. The meaning of tithe has changed to basic giving, which isn't compulsory.

Great job you argued the definition of the word for countless hours, majority of Christians when they think of tithing unless they are brand new think of the word in the general sense of giving.

 

[Dino246]

Matthew 23:23 King James Version (KJV)

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.


Tithing is very important to Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ, as he instructed the Scribes and Pharisees that they must Tithe.

I don't see how a few comments in passing constitute "very important". I also don't see how said comments, from the middle of Jesus' rebuke of the Pharisees, can be taken as directive for Christians. Context is always important!

 

[Dino246]

seems like you're playing semantics, we know "tithing" as in old testament "tithing" is not required. The meaning of tithe has changed to basic giving, which isn't compulsory.

Great job you argued the definition of the word for countless hours, majority of Christians when they think of tithing unless they are brand new think of the word in the general sense of giving.

Please provide scriptural support for your assertion that the meaning of "tithing" has changed, and that as an ongoing practice it ever means voluntary giving done with no compulsion.

It's not clear to me whether your last sentence is genuine encouragement or snark. Either way, this issue is important to me because I encounter far too many Christians who feel fear and guilt because of bad teaching and poor understanding of terminology. Misusing terms only leads to equivocation, confusion, and division. I am all for generous giving as a response to God's generous grace, but strongly against compulsion rooted in old covenant laws to support a dead religious system.

 

[GdaxBbb]

Please provide scriptural support for your assertion that the meaning of "tithing" has changed, and that as an ongoing practice it ever means voluntary giving done with no compulsion.

It's not clear to me whether your last sentence is genuine encouragement or snark. Either way, this issue is important to me because I encounter far too many Christians who feel fear and guilt because of bad teaching and poor understanding of terminology. Misusing terms only leads to equivocation, confusion, and division. I am all for generous giving as a response to God's generous grace, but strongly against compulsion rooted in old covenant laws to support a dead religious system.

Today's definition of tithing to the general world, Christian non Christian alike, is giving financial support to God's institutions. Nobody talks about old testament tithing, unless you start getting deeper into theology. Pretty sure majority of sounds biblical churches, even catholic churches all teach tithing meaning giving out of grace and love, therefore for most the definition has moved from an old testament system, to one of giving out of love.

And like I said over and over the technical old definition of tithing found in the old testament is not applicable, but tithing as in the general sense of giving to support ministry is obviously biblical.

Majority of people don't ask about tithing concerning about old testament practices, majority ask with the intent of how little can i give and still be acceptable in gods eyes, and if they do again most likely you're delving deeper into theology and would probably preface it with old testament "tithing" not general giving.

 

[Aerials1978]

So yeah there is no rule just give as you please, but be careful of your hearts condition on being "stingy", parting away with money is probably one of the most painful things to do and justify, we as humans just don't want to do it period, even the most devout Christians.

Under new testament cheerful giving most likely you're supposed to match that if not even go above and beyond, unless you can somehow feel cheerful giving small sums, which of course people can, but don't use it as an excuse ohh see I was cheerful in giving a penny, I did my duty.

The point of the scripture is giving out of love abundantly. (Which is extremely extremely hard hard). It was actually easier to give when I was super poor, then it is now that I make more money. Because while I make a decent low-mid 6 figure amount, that is nothing in the grand scheme of things, so giving away $20-$30K/yr still makes you question things, especially doing it a few years that money adds up to a lot in your savings account.

Because depending on which part of the world, or area of the country you live in, low 6 figures is not much on as a single income family. It's not making say 1M/yr and you can give away 100-200K, and still have hundreds of thousands left over.

I've sacrificed savings, put off buying a home, just finally for the first time ever bought a brand new cheapest car I could find, but I understand there are people starving in the world, or whom have never heard the gospel.

So no you aren't obliged to give anything, god will still provide your basic needs, just probably don't expect any additional overly large blessings in return, due to reaping and sowing, of course there are exceptions to the rule, where people are blessed and are stingy and don't give.

We are stewards of his resources nothing is ours, so if you're happy where you are perfectly fine, just don't expect god to give you a bigger allocation to manage on his behalf.

I acknowledge the only reason I make the income I make has been in direct proportion to what I give, the more I give the more god trusts me with on his behalf, of course again plenty of exceptions of him blessings non-Christians, ect.

The amount of money i make for the amount of actual work required, is not proportional and def. not do to my superior skills, it's literally god going here take this money good and faithful servant and manage it faithfully for my kingdom. It literally just flows from him in easy unexpected ways.

But none of this is really important, just pray about it, and if you want to give more ask god to help you with your feelings and circumstances to give more.

Don't take this the wrong way and I don't mean harm when saying this, but you remind me of my mother in law, she gives when she feels compelled, basically a nice way of saying I try to give the least amount possible to still be able to claim browny points, yet she still struggles in basically poverty paycheck to paycheck, having to work 12hrs a day well in her 60's. Hopefully she'll have social security and her home, but that's it, like I said god will provide just the basic necessities, because why trust her with more, if she will just hoard it or spend it on herself.

But Again pray for gods will and his faith to help you give more, if you so desire, you'll be surprised of the outcome, it will be truly unbelievable, where you'll know it's him directly.

Sorry if some parts came a bit harsh, didn't mean too.

So yeah there is no rule just give as you please, but be careful of your hearts condition on being "stingy", parting away with money is probably one of the most painful things to do and justify, we as humans just don't want to do it period, even the most devout Christians.

Under new testament cheerful giving most likely you're supposed to match that if not even go above and beyond, unless you can somehow feel cheerful giving small sums, which of course people can, but don't use it as an excuse ohh see I was cheerful in giving a penny, I did my duty.

The point of the scripture is giving out of love abundantly. (Which is extremely extremely hard hard). It was actually easier to give when I was super poor, then it is now that I make more money. Because while I make a decent low-mid 6 figure amount, that is nothing in the grand scheme of things, so giving away $20-$30K/yr still makes you question things, especially doing it a few years that money adds up to a lot in your savings account.

Because depending on which part of the world, or area of the country you live in, low 6 figures is not much on as a single income family. It's not making say 1M/yr and you can give away 100-200K, and still have hundreds of thousands left over.

I've sacrificed savings, put off buying a home, just finally for the first time ever bought a brand new cheapest car I could find, but I understand there are people starving in the world, or whom have never heard the gospel.

So no you aren't obliged to give anything, god will still provide your basic needs, just probably don't expect any additional overly large blessings in return, due to reaping and sowing, of course there are exceptions to the rule, where people are blessed and are stingy and don't give.

We are stewards of his resources nothing is ours, so if you're happy where you are perfectly fine, just don't expect god to give you a bigger allocation to manage on his behalf.

I acknowledge the only reason I make the income I make has been in direct proportion to what I give, the more I give the more god trusts me with on his behalf, of course again plenty of exceptions of him blessings non-Christians, ect.

The amount of money i make for the amount of actual work required, is not proportional and def. not do to my superior skills, it's literally god going here take this money good and faithful servant and manage it faithfully for my kingdom. It literally just flows from him in easy unexpected ways.

But none of this is really important, just pray about it, and if you want to give more ask god to help you with your feelings and circumstances to give more.

Don't take this the wrong way and I don't mean harm when saying this, but you remind me of my mother in law, she gives when she feels compelled, basically a nice way of saying I try to give the least amount possible to still be able to claim browny points, yet she still struggles in basically poverty paycheck to paycheck, having to work 12hrs a day well in her 60's. Hopefully she'll have social security and her home, but that's it, like I said god will provide just the basic necessities, because why trust her with more, if she will just hoard it or spend it on herself.

But Again pray for gods will and his faith to help you give more, if you so desire, you'll be surprised of the outcome, it will be truly unbelievable, where you'll know it's him directly.

Sorry if some parts came a bit harsh, didn't mean too.

i don’t offense. I’ve had really harsh words spoken to me. I been called a Flat-Earther by an atheist, was told by both a Muslim and a Christian that I’m going to hell, etc.

People whom give is a two-fold scenario; they either give out of compulsion due obligation or a joyful heart. Neither are wrong in my opinion.

A lot depends on where you give to. Church’s, charities, or even buy someone food who is hungry counts. Yes, it what’s in a persons heart that determines why they do that. Dollar amounts is arbitrary as far as the Lord is concerned.

 

[Aerials1978]

What does a person do with the other 90% that qualifies them as being a Real Disciple?

There is no qualification. Either you belong to Jesus or you don’t. What you do with your money is between you and God.

 

[Moses_Young]

?. In what context are you asking?

Circumcision was a commandment of the Old Testament, as was tithing. If circumcision is fulfilled in Christ, then how much moreso tithing?

 

[Aerials1978]

Circumcision was a commandment of the Old Testament, as was tithing. If circumcision is fulfilled in Christ, then how much moreso tithing?

I know Paul spoke of circumcision of the heart. Also, the Apostles warned new Believers not become circumcised as they were trying to follow Mosaic Law(New Wineskins). There is nowhere that Christians are called to tithe. If you decided to, that’s between that person and God.

 

[Guojing]

"Difficult for people to accept"? No, not at all. However, just as circumcision was required prior to the Law but is not required of Christians, so too tithing, which was not required prior to the Law is also not required of Christians.

Arguments from silence cannot be used as categorical proof of either position. What is true is that there is no evidence of Jacob actually paying tithes to anyone, no record of Abraham tithing aside from in Genesis 14 and that on war spoils only, and not even a hint of Isaac paying tithes at any time. In other words, you can't support a doctrine on a basis of thin air. There is no need for Scripture to record every instance, but it doesn't even have one.

I never said that tithing was "required" of Christians in the first place.

I am trying to establish that tithing was a practice done by Abraham, Issac and Jacob before the Law.

 

[Guojing]

Circumcision was a commandment of the Old Testament, as was tithing. If circumcision is fulfilled in Christ, then how much moreso tithing?

The term "tithe", simply means "a tenth". There is nothing in the term that indicates it is compulsory or a commandment.

The Law of Moses included tithing as a commandment, but tithing was practiced before the Law was given.

 

[GdaxBbb]

The term "tithe", simply means "a tenth". There is nothing in the term that indicates it is compulsory or a commandment.

The Law of Moses included tithing as a commandment, but tithing was practiced before the Law was given.

Right this is very true, even before it became an old testament law, it was practiced. What I've read is though it seemed like a one time thing, and the early patriarchs didn't practice it like a regular practice, but maybe they did.

Either way there is a strong case for a tenth as bare minimum, it seems almost impossible to me, from my own experience and of reading about others, that god doesn't provide. In the sense of well if I give a 10th I won't have enough for bills, yada yada, god always comes through and seems to provide.

Only reason keeping people back is the lack of faith in him that he will provide, which is one of the hardest things to do, even I still struggle with it, but i press on knowing that he has provided and he always will.

 

[Dino246]

I never said that tithing was "required" of Christians in the first place.

I am trying to establish that tithing was a practice done by Abraham, Issac and Jacob before the Law.

You can establish that Abraham tithed of war spoils one time, and that Jacob vowed to pay tithes. That's the extent of the biblical evidence. Even if you could establish that the practice was common, you're up against the reality that circumcision was even more so given before the Law, and yet is not required of Christians. Tithing as a requirement simply is not given to Christians. If it's not a requirement, then it's voluntary, and if voluntary, then the amount is as well, which leaves us exactly where we are: give as you choose to give, based on the directions that are provided in the New Testament.

 

[Dino246]

Right this is very true, even before it became an old testament law, it was practiced. What I've read is though it seemed like a one time thing, and the early patriarchs didn't practice it like a regular practice, but maybe they did.

Since there was no regular God-ordained priesthood prior to the Law, to whom would the patriarchs have given their regular tithes?

Either way there is a strong case for a tenth as bare minimum, it seems almost impossible to me, from my own experience and of reading about others, that god doesn't provide. In the sense of well if I give a 10th I won't have enough for bills, yada yada, god always comes through and seems to provide.

Where is this "strong case"? I've never seen it in Scripture. The testimonies of individuals do not constitute biblical warrant, and likely cannot be validated with actual hard evidence.

Only reason keeping people back is the lack of faith in him that he will provide, which is one of the hardest things to do, even I still struggle with it, but i press on knowing that he has provided and he always will.

Let's not confuse giving with tithing; they simply are not the same thing. You can give eight, nine, eleven, or 99%, and you aren't "tithing". You can even given ten percent of your gross income, and you aren't tithing as the Bible teaches it, but rather making up your own rules by which to worship God. It's far easier to avoid the confusing terms and simply call it what it is: giving.

 

[Guojing]

Right this is very true, even before it became an old testament law, it was practiced. What I've read is though it seemed like a one time thing, and the early patriarchs didn't practice it like a regular practice, but maybe they did.

Either way there is a strong case for a tenth as bare minimum, it seems almost impossible to me, from my own experience and of reading about others, that god doesn't provide. In the sense of well if I give a 10th I won't have enough for bills, yada yada, god always comes through and seems to provide.

Only reason keeping people back is the lack of faith in him that he will provide, which is one of the hardest things to do, even I still struggle with it, but i press on knowing that he has provided and he always will.

Yes, as I have said in my first reply, the correct way for us Christians not under the Law of Moses, is to recognize that Jesus was God's tithe. God sowed Jesus in faith, when we are still sinners. God gave us his firstborn and reap an entire Body of Christ.

Once Christians understand that God is a giver, I believe they will naturally want to give to the Lord too. After all, we all have God's DNA.

 

[GdaxBbb]

Since there was no regular God-ordained priesthood prior to the Law, to whom would the patriarchs have given their regular tithes?


Where is this "strong case"? I've never seen it in Scripture. The testimonies of individuals do not constitute biblical warrant, and likely cannot be validated with actual hard evidence.


Let's not confuse giving with tithing; they simply are not the same thing. You can give eight, nine, eleven, or 99%, and you aren't "tithing". You can even given ten percent of your gross income, and you aren't tithing as the Bible teaches it, but rather making up your own rules by which to worship God. It's far easier to avoid the confusing terms and simply call it what it is: giving.

Strong evidence being they all gave a 10th, again "tithing" meaning giving a 10th, not old testament law tithing. So with your technical word usage tithing no, but there is strong support for giving a tenth. As the patriarchs gave a minimum of a 10th, the old testament law tithing of 10-20%, and new testament cheerful giving, based on all 3 a 10th seems like a bare minimum threshold to be included in cheerful giving.

Of course you don't have to give anything as you're not commanded to do so, you can give 0%, you just won't be practicing cheerful giving, nor would you reap anything most likely, as discussed before.

You're making things ultra technical, to the intent of the question being asked, which is again people usually asking how little can I give to fall under the cheerful giver category, before it becomes almost meaningless. The intent is evidenced by all the answers to the tithe question found everywhere, and from personal experience when I would google tithing, my heart was basically do I really have to give a "suggested" recommended 10th, or can i get away with basically giving much less, and still consider myself a "good" "spirit filled christian"

 

[Dino246]

Strong evidence being they all gave a 10th, again "tithing" meaning giving a 10th, not old testament law tithing. So with your technical word usage tithing no, but there is strong support for giving a tenth. As the patriarchs gave a minimum of a 10th, the old testament law tithing of 10-20%, and new testament cheerful giving, based on all 3 a 10th seems like a bare minimum threshold to be included in cheerful giving.

You have a very strange definition of "strong". There are two and only two references prior to the Law, and one of them is nothing but a conditional promise. That is a long way from adequate evidence to establish it as a regular practice.

I agree that "tithe" means "tenth", either fractional or ordinal. I notice, however, that you have completely sidestepped my question about a priesthood. It is important; please consider it.

Of course you don't have to give anything as you're not commanded to do so, you can give 0%, you just won't be practicing cheerful giving, nor would you reap anything most likely, as discussed before.

You're making things ultra technical, to the intent of the question being asked, which is again people usually asking how little can I give to fall under the cheerful giver category, before it becomes almost meaningless. The intent is evidenced by all the answers to the tithe question found everywhere, and from personal experience when I would google tithing, my heart was basically do I really have to give a "suggested" recommended 10th, or can i get away with basically giving much less, and still consider myself a "good" "spirit filled christian"

I'm not here to justify minimal to non-existent giving at all, so let's set that aside. I'd rather deal with the confusion believers have about scriptural teaching on giving. Sometimes, proper understanding of a biblical issue requires a technical approach.

 

[GdaxBbb]

Who did they give to? To God, why or how doesn’t matter who they gave to, they could of bought property and just gave it away. Point is they decided to give an offering of physical valuable possessions of usually a tenth.

Funny just turned on the radio there is a sermon about stinginess and generosity.

The example to follow which is the root of the question, which like majority of these questions are, is does god command me to be generous?

Simple answer is yes, all the scriptures in Acts of people selling their homes and fields to meet the communities needs.

The fact of the matter is if you're giving less then 10% you’re being less then generous which God “commands” or asks us to be.

If you think below a tenth is being generous and you’re somehow in the clear, reality is you aren’t.

You keep turning this into a legalistic argument about meanings of tithing, who said 10%?

All in an attempt to justify stinginess and trying to avoid or somehow twist Gods instruction of being generous with what you have.

Is it a command like the Ten Commandments or an Old Testament law no. Is there any written words thou must give a tenth no.

But there is clear instruction to be a generous giver of all resources, time money possessions.

Feel free to continue to diminish the true intent of the question which is, is it ok to be stingy and giving in general? The answer is no it’s not ok, and now what god intends of people.

It’s like saying is it ok to continue living in anger, gossip, pride, coldness? No.

Hoarding of Gods resources that he’s entrusted to you, not yours is not being Christlike. You can try to justify it however you like through legalism about “tithing”.

 

[Dino246]

Who did they give to? To God, why or how doesn’t matter who they gave to, they could of bought property and just gave it away. Point is they decided to give an offering of physical valuable possessions of usually a tenth.

Giving away property to whomever has nothing to do with biblical tithing. You're attempting to make a case for tithing as a regular practice prior to the Law. There simple is not enough evidence to support that. You're arguing from silence; just stop.

Funny just turned on the radio there is a sermon about stinginess and generosity.

Which is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

The example to follow which is the root of the question, which like majority of these questions are, is does god command me to be generous?

Again, that is irrelevant.

Simple answer is yes, all the scriptures in Acts of people selling their homes and fields to meet the communities needs.

Irrelevant. That has nothing to do with tithing.

The fact of the matter is if you're giving less then 10% you’re being less then generous which God “commands” or asks us to be.

There is a massive and criticial difference between "commands" and "asks".

If you think below a tenth is being generous and you’re somehow in the clear, reality is you aren’t.

You keep turning this into a legalistic argument about meanings of tithing, who said 10%?

God did, in the Law. Tithing has nothing whatsoever to do with generosity.

All in an attempt to justify stinginess and trying to avoid or somehow twist Gods instruction of being generous with what you have.

You have clearly missed some very relevant comments that I have made.

Is it a command like the Ten Commandments or an Old Testament law no. Is there any written words thou must give a tenth no.

Exactly, so stop arguing in favour of "tithing" as "tithe" means tenth.

But there is clear instruction to be a generous giver of all resources,

Agreed. If you left it at that, we'd be on the same page.

Feel free to continue to diminish the true intent of the question which is, is it ok to be stingy and giving in general? The answer is no it’s not ok, and now what god intends of people.

That's a strawman argument, and is worthless. You really don't understand my position.

Hoarding of Gods resources that he’s entrusted to you, not yours is not being Christlike. You can try to justify it however you like through legalism about “tithing”.

Since you're having trouble keeping the personal comments to yourself, perhaps you need to leave this discussion.

 

[GdaxBbb]

You was meant in plural for all, not you specifically. I'm answering in the context of giving which seems like the intent of the OP's question, you're answering in the biblical technical definition of tithe.

I guess it would just be easier for OP to state the intent: of giving 1%,5%,10% or a question about the practice of old testament tithing under the law, and if we're still supposed to follow old testament laws, which seems Juvenile as majority of Christians unless ultra brand new know, we're under grace not law.

 

[Guojing]

To sum up, I think all of us are in agreement here.

Must I give 10% to the Lord (thru the church)? The clear answer is No. There will be no Malachi curse on you because Jesus has taken away all curses of the Law (Galatians 3:13)

Should I be giving to the church? Yes. Give cheerfully and out of revelation.

If 10% is tough for you to give cheerfully, start smaller and at a level comfortable for you to be a "hilarious" giver.