Not By Works

[JohnW34]

John, I think your heart is good however if you believe one needs to maintain salvation then you are sadly misguided and mistaken. The fullness of Christ’s work on the cross and His conquering power over death keeps our salvation irrevocably and eternally secure.

I wish being guided or misguided was so easy. Most believers I know have issues and differences.

Ephesians 4:3-7
Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.
There is one body and one Spirit--just as you were called to one hope when you were called--
one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it.

What you call maintain salvation, I would call walking in its reality.
Freedom from sin, desiring good and not evil is the cornerstone of Christ.

Walking in rebellion is just that, being a lost sheep, who often end up dead.
Only the worthy servants survive.

Luke 13:27
And anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

Do believers know Jesus and His words? This is no picnic.

 

[PS]

The ignore function is GREAT.

 

[EleventhHour]

John 14:6-7
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

Quoting scripture and understanding it's meaning within context of the big picture is very important ...so you have not really answered.

 

[NayborBear]

Wow, you lay a heavier burden than that of the Pharisees I think.

When will you realize that salvation is not a bilateral agreement.... basically you should go live in a monastery and maybe add in some self flagellation for good measure until you have that physical cross built.

You know it is a message of good news...Gospel!!!

On some level I feel sorry for you...yet I pray you are hampered daily from preaching this very false dogma.

Ya know? I asked God that very same question, you just posed to RebuildJesus'Church!
I cannot recall how many times, as it was just that many!

He told me: "You are a "monastery!" "A monastery of 1!"

"If I wanted you in a monastery?" "You'd have ALREADY been in one!"

"I NEED you out "HERE", in "Gen-Pop!"

And you dunno how many times, I wanted to quit my "gainful employment" truck driving job either!

"Keep working!" "I got big things planned for you!"

And? He was right! He always is!

And, here I am! Providing a helping hand to the Lord of the Harvest, and His Angels, in separating false wheat from good wheat, as other Angels go round to the 4 corners of the earth "stamping" the "Seal of God" on those called by His Name!

And just where do ya reckon would be the bestest place for "gen-pop" exposure?

You guessed her chester!

RAT CHEER! Smack dab in the "crossroads of the universe!"

Using the "very tools" of the beast that ascendeth outta the bottomless pit, as testimonies and bearing witness against "the wisdom, traditions, and precepts of man!

Looking around, and seeing all the flattery being handed out, to myself, and others like me?

Even I have to admit. We must be doing pretty well, eh?

So? Keep on pushing "cessesion" doctrine/s!

Makes our jobs easier!

 

[PS]

How right you are.

They don't belong with the apostles that's for sure. A major theme was to walk the narrow path, aim for the mark, and continue in the faith without falling back.

The Israelites knew all about that, and the Pharisees (Jews by religion) were way off the mark.

 

[VCO]

i notice pattern that everyone who believes in a non-losable salvation of any type is always implied that they walk in darkness, sin as they please, have no fear of God, dont strive for holiness or whatever it is.

its always implied. rarely said directly.

STRANGE, I preach a Striving out LOVE FOR HIM, all the time!

So then what do you do with these verses:

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.

2 Timothy 2:19 (ESV)
19 But God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”

Ephesians 1:11-14 (HCSB)
11 We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him, you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.

Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

Jeremiah 33:11 (NASB)
11 the voice of joy and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride, the voice of those who say, "Give thanks to the LORD of hosts, For the LORD is good, For His lovingkindness is everlasting"; and of those who bring a thank offering into the house of the LORD. For I will restore the fortunes of the land as they were at first,' says the LORD.

Acts 5:41 (NCV)
41 The apostles left the meeting full of joy because they were given the honor of suffering disgrace for Jesus.

Philippians 4:4 (NCV)
4 Be full of joy in the Lord always. I will say again, be full of joy.

1 Peter 1:8-9 (HCSB)
8 You love Him, though you have not seen Him. And though not seeing Him now, you believe in Him and rejoice with inexpressible and glorious joy,
9 because you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

Isaiah 51:11 (HCSB)
11 And the redeemed of the LORD will return and come to Zion with singing, crowned with unending joy. Joy and gladness will overtake ⌊them⌋, and sorrow and sighing will flee.


My FAITH, leaves me with exceeding JOY, and unending LOVE, I LOVE HIM more than any one Else, and HE LOVES ME with His Unending LOVE.

Your FAITH, leaves you with feeling they have no fear of God, don't strive for holiness or whatever it is.

Very Strange indeed.

 

[JohnW34]

Quoting scripture and understanding it's meaning within context of the big picture is very important ...so you have not really answered.

I have answered with the truth, Jesus.
Are you saying He is not the truth, the way and our salvation?

 

[Melach]

STRANGE, I preach a Striving out LOVE FOR HIM, all the time!

So then what do you do with these verses:

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.

2 Timothy 2:19 (ESV)
19 But God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”

Ephesians 1:11-14 (HCSB)
11 We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him, you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.

Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

Jeremiah 33:11 (NASB)
11 the voice of joy and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride, the voice of those who say, "Give thanks to the LORD of hosts, For the LORD is good, For His lovingkindness is everlasting"; and of those who bring a thank offering into the house of the LORD. For I will restore the fortunes of the land as they were at first,' says the LORD.

Acts 5:41 (NCV)
41 The apostles left the meeting full of joy because they were given the honor of suffering disgrace for Jesus.

Philippians 4:4 (NCV)
4 Be full of joy in the Lord always. I will say again, be full of joy.

1 Peter 1:8-9 (HCSB)
8 You love Him, though you have not seen Him. And though not seeing Him now, you believe in Him and rejoice with inexpressible and glorious joy,
9 because you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

Isaiah 51:11 (HCSB)
11 And the redeemed of the LORD will return and come to Zion with singing, crowned with unending joy. Joy and gladness will overtake ⌊them⌋, and sorrow and sighing will flee.


My FAITH, leaves me with exceeding JOY, and unending LOVE, I LOVE HIM more than any one Else, and HE LOVES ME with His Unending LOVE.

Your FAITH, leaves you with feeling they have no fear of God, don't strive for holiness or whatever it is.

Very Strange indeed.

uhh... did you answer to right post? im on your side bro

 

[JohnW34]

2 Corinthians 11:4-5
For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.
But I do not think I am in the least inferior to those "super-apostles."

I keep on getting tingly feelings the super-apostles are here trying to teach me

 

[VCO]

i notice pattern that everyone who believes in a non-losable salvation of any type is always implied that they walk in darkness, sin as they please, have no fear of God, dont strive for holiness or whatever it is.

its always implied. rarely said directly.

One more thought.

I am in SERVICE to HIM, purely out of LOVE, therefore it is no burden to me.

You appear to be in SERVICE to HIM without LOVE being Invoved, therefore it is a burden to you.

1 John 5:3 (HCSB)
3 For this is what love for God is: to keep His commands. Now His commands are not a burden,

Food for Thought:

Could the Motive be the Problem ?

 

[Chris1975]

STRANGE, I preach a Striving out LOVE FOR HIM, all the time!

So then what do you do with these verses:

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.

2 Timothy 2:19 (ESV)
19 But God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”

Ephesians 1:11-14 (HCSB)
11 We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him, you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.

Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

Jeremiah 33:11 (NASB)
11 the voice of joy and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride, the voice of those who say, "Give thanks to the LORD of hosts, For the LORD is good, For His lovingkindness is everlasting"; and of those who bring a thank offering into the house of the LORD. For I will restore the fortunes of the land as they were at first,' says the LORD.

Acts 5:41 (NCV)
41 The apostles left the meeting full of joy because they were given the honor of suffering disgrace for Jesus.

Philippians 4:4 (NCV)
4 Be full of joy in the Lord always. I will say again, be full of joy.

1 Peter 1:8-9 (HCSB)
8 You love Him, though you have not seen Him. And though not seeing Him now, you believe in Him and rejoice with inexpressible and glorious joy,
9 because you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

Isaiah 51:11 (HCSB)
11 And the redeemed of the LORD will return and come to Zion with singing, crowned with unending joy. Joy and gladness will overtake ⌊them⌋, and sorrow and sighing will flee.


My FAITH, leaves me with exceeding JOY, and unending LOVE, I LOVE HIM more than any one Else, and HE LOVES ME with His Unending LOVE.

Your FAITH, leaves you with feeling they have no fear of God, don't strive for holiness or whatever it is.

Very Strange indeed.

I will take the exact post you have above. Not add a single word, nor remove a single word, but just highlight things you haven't highlighted. Lets look again. IN BOLD AND RED.

 

[NayborBear]

I know.... they nullify the cross and make it of no effect......it takes a lot of stamina to continually read their slander against Jesus and His grace.

Moving beyond the principle doctrines of Christ, unto spiritual maturity, is NOT "nullifying the Cross!" It takes something you and your boyfriend, seemingly lack, are ignorant of, or (worse) willingly ignorant of. Believe it or not? The "knowing ya don't wanna know?" Is "willingly ignorant!"
It's called "Spiritual Discernment!"

OH!.....Before y'all get "lathered up" concerning Jesus and His grace?
1 Corinthians 1:4
I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;

Just so ya might quit thinking/believing/teaching this "grace" you speak of isn't FROM Jesus Christ!
It is GIVEN you BY Jesus Christ, FROM God!

 

[Lightskin]

What you call maintain salvation, I would call walking in its reality.

Now you’re talking semantics so please answer the following question with a direct yes or no answer. Is salvation irrevocable?

On another note I appreciate you sharing the Word regarding peaceful relations among brethren. I have passion and sometimes it gets to kickin’

 

[EleventhHour]

I have answered with the truth, Jesus.
Are you saying He is not the truth, the way and our salvation?

Why would such a question... smh

 

[EleventhHour]

I have to ask you a question, "Does it seem to you that there is a lot more people with strange beliefs, especially with the younger generations, that ever before?"

We moved from Nebraska, to California for about over 20 Years of my Life. Nebraska was in the Bible Belt. Spent two years in Northeastern California, and lots of Bible Teaching Churches there. Then we moved to the Northern Coast of California, and that was southern tip of a Small Bible Belt there, that ran all along the River to Medford, OR. Now I am back here in Nebraska. Have I been living in a sort of Protective Bubble of OSAS Churches or what is going on?

Or is the Great Falling Away from truth?

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 (NKJV)
1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

I agree false teachers abound and the internet has not helped, and its mostly false teachers are the street corners which is also a problem since their converts carry forward the same false lifeless message >>> you will know them by their fruit.

 

[Lightskin]

The ignore function is GREAT.

Did you say something?

 

[EleventhHour]

Aaah...but they don't like the light

John 3
19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

Aaah...but they don't like the light

Here is some light for you.....

But when this priest had offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 where he is now waiting until his enemies are made a footstool for his feet. 14 For by one offering he has perfected for all time those who are made holy.
Hebrews 10:12-14

So he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.
Hebrews 7:24

Here are some people that agree with this light @mailmandan @eternally-gratefull, @EleventhHour, @Rosemaryx, @dcontroversal @Lightskin, @TheDivineWatermark @star and @VCO and many others ...so really who is the one who does not like the light...... pray tell?

 

[JohnW34]

Why would such a question... smh

"Quoting scripture and understanding it's meaning within context of the big picture is very important ...so you have not really answered."

Imagine the words of scripture are my statements of personal faith.
Do you have a problem with these statements of faith?
I am happy to listen if you explain your meaning and perspective.

 

[Chris1975]

Here is some light for you.....

But when this priest had offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 where he is now waiting until his enemies are made a footstool for his feet. 14 For by one offering he has perfected for all time those who are made holy.
Hebrews 10:12-14

So he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.
Hebrews 7:24

Here are some people that agree with this light @mailmandan @eternally-gratefull, @EleventhHour, @Rosemaryx, @dcontroversal @Lightskin, @TheDivineWatermark @star and @VCO and many others ...so really who is the one who does not like the light...... pray tell?

Hebrews 10 NKJV
12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
- it doesn't say those who believed once upon a time. It says those being sanctified. Which is what I have been telling you.

Hebrews 10 AMPLIFIED
12 whereas Christ, having offered the one sacrifice [the all-sufficient sacrifice of Himself] for sins for all time, sat down [signifying the completion of atonement for sin] at the right hand of God [the position of honor], 13 waiting from that time onward until his enemies are made a footstool for His feet. 14 For by the one offering He has perfected forever and completely cleansed those who are being sanctified [bringing each believer to spiritual completion and maturity].
-Amplified translation uses more English to explain the nuances of the Greek. Even this confirms it.

Next - the meaning of "by one offering He has perfected forever" it means He doesn't need to offer it again and again like Israel had to do in the wilderness and in the promised land. His one sacrifice is sufficient for all time. Christ's one offering superceded the annual offerings as can be evidenced in the same passage:
Hebrews 10 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once [a]purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.

Then you quote above "
So he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.
Hebrews 7:24"

Jesus intercedes for those who confess their sins to Him. 1 John 2v1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
- but you believe we are forever saved at conversion, so why would confession and intercession be needed. In your doctrine it is all moot.

 

[JohnW34]

Here is some light for you.....

But when this priest had offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 where he is now waiting until his enemies are made a footstool for his feet. 14 For by one offering he has perfected for all time those who are made holy.
Hebrews 10:12-14

So he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.
Hebrews 7:24

The light is seen as our deeds. Works of evil lead to death, they destroy and damage ourselves and others. If you put on the light and see the mess you want to stop and avoid such things and behave well and lovingly.

The light can be seen as who holds a particular theological view and approach.

John 3:20-21
Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."

Light in the passage above is clearly evil deeds, and good deeds, not faith and belief systems.
If you want to address the passages and issue of evil deeds and darkness, that is helpful, else you are talking about something else.