Help and Prayer
- Thread starter GdaxBbb
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Yo,
I have something for you that you might want to try in conjunction to your prayers...It might sound weird, but have faith in her, and start treating her like she is doing the things you prayed for and asked God for. A lot of times when we pray for things we wait for the result to manifest, but you have to live as though it is. "Faith without works is dead"... You have to prove what you believe.
I remember a long time ago i used to get bad grades in school, i would pretty much get straight F's because i really couldn't be asked...I enjoyed the life of no responsibility, no expectation, and people would just leave me alone. That was how i would identify myself, as a slacker, but then i had this one teacher who would literally treat me like i was an ace student. I remember that one time he moved my normal seat in the back of the classroom up front.. I hated that, he would deny me the identity that i tried to represent myself as, and instead came at me with something new...He would always just do little things like saying he trusted me, or pull me aside and give me good advise, both about life and school in general. He wouldn't flame me for mistakes either, instead he would just draw on the good he saw , and he would ask me questions like i was actually paying attention. It was annoying at first having someone have this much faith and trust in my ability, but after a while i found myself conforming to his perception of me.
I ended up getting mostly A's in his class, while maintaining my F's in my other classes. I didn't understand it then, but i understand it now, how you identify others can really impact how they react to you. Sometimes you have to deny a person the identity that they are trying to project to you, and instead treat them as something else that is more positive.
What i would do if i was on your position, is to sit her down and tell her that i am choosing only to see her this way, only the good. I would also forgive her of her past mistakes, and not bring that up ever, and only focus on the new, the new identity i have for her and how i identify her with the good that i expected... You know, God does something very similar when we go from sinners to saints...He focuses only on the new identity and doesn't bring up the old. She probably will resist and continue to doubt you even as you practice this, but keep at it, be patient, remain consistent and true to your faith, and she will start to change. I have been practicing this for a while now, and it does work.
-
1
- Show all
Hey Thanks for the reply, yeah I've tried pretty much this the whole 13 years, hence why i stayed so long, all I've done is show her love, acceptance, and forgiveness thousand times over. Even if i never bring anything and see if she's capable of doing it on her own, she just never does.
I mean it's basically a love issue, I don't see how god will force, or how your expectations for her will force her to love me. It is what it is. If there was an easy formula we would just convert all atheists to believers haha. I know exactly what you mean in your case too, it's a common movie theme somebody sees something and believes in someone, and they change.
Problem is I believed in her all this time, and she even knows it and admits it, and says thank you blah blah, but then goes on to just neglect me like always. It's also quite scary because of all the symptoms of Borderline, and Narcissist disorder, it's like these people completely fake it, as far as If I go by the fruit of her salvation I can't say she's saved... She says Jesus is God, and talks God things, but then acts the way she does.
I recently had a friend just get divorced, same exact thing with his Wife, Borderline issues, it's like they were both clones even their upbringings. Treated like little spoiled princesses, always had everything done for them, treat their parents like utter trash receptacles, and on and on.
Everything is yes I will change, yes I will do this, I will go to counseling, I will read a book. Recently bought the love dare and she can't even get herself to read 1 page a day without me having to "remind" her, because she forgets.
It's just what's the point of staying with someone who clearly doesn't love you, to just emulate Christ? But if it's causing you to sin in the process deep down inside with resentment and anger, even if you don't show it outwardly am I really emulating him? And I def. don't keep it in a lot of times, so I am def. not emulating him outwardly either.
Then you see girls who literally abuse themselves over guys, and would do anything for you, it just makes it so hard to want to keep trying on someone who treats you the way they do.
Either way thanks for the reply very valid input.
Also if you don't mind me asking who have you been trying this on? What sort of relationship?
I mean it's basically a love issue, I don't see how god will force, or how your expectations for her will force her to love me. It is what it is. If there was an easy formula we would just convert all atheists to believers haha. I know exactly what you mean in your case too, it's a common movie theme somebody sees something and believes in someone, and they change.
Problem is I believed in her all this time, and she even knows it and admits it, and says thank you blah blah, but then goes on to just neglect me like always. It's also quite scary because of all the symptoms of Borderline, and Narcissist disorder, it's like these people completely fake it, as far as If I go by the fruit of her salvation I can't say she's saved... She says Jesus is God, and talks God things, but then acts the way she does.
I recently had a friend just get divorced, same exact thing with his Wife, Borderline issues, it's like they were both clones even their upbringings. Treated like little spoiled princesses, always had everything done for them, treat their parents like utter trash receptacles, and on and on.
Everything is yes I will change, yes I will do this, I will go to counseling, I will read a book. Recently bought the love dare and she can't even get herself to read 1 page a day without me having to "remind" her, because she forgets.
It's just what's the point of staying with someone who clearly doesn't love you, to just emulate Christ? But if it's causing you to sin in the process deep down inside with resentment and anger, even if you don't show it outwardly am I really emulating him? And I def. don't keep it in a lot of times, so I am def. not emulating him outwardly either.
Then you see girls who literally abuse themselves over guys, and would do anything for you, it just makes it so hard to want to keep trying on someone who treats you the way they do.
Either way thanks for the reply very valid input.
Also if you don't mind me asking who have you been trying this on? What sort of relationship?
-
1
- Show all
No problem, and yeah, you can't or shouldn't try to force people to love or respect you, but you can treat them as though they do.
Love or respect is a conclusion that they have to come to themselves based on your persistence of action. I have been around
women like that, and some of them are extremely hard and they take time, and a lot of effort.
As for narcissistic behavior, you have to be able to see through their B.S ,and not be reactive to it, and instead focus on and emphasize the positive, even if it is nonexistent( this requires faith). The thing about narcissists is that they are unstable, emotional, reactive and feed off of pretty much all energy they can get because they need the attention and validation. How i deal with it if its too much, is i put them on ice. I legit just get up and leave for a while, or i give no response to their tantrums. When they start acting like they have some sense again i reward them with attention. With some women, and people in general it's kind of like you have to train them on how to behave, using your attention and responses positive reinforcement.
As for trying to get her to read/ do things/cooperate.... Good luck with that, narcissists are low energy by default, and often times they don't really like putting forth effort for the sake of others or change. The way to get to them is through the ego or identity, by telling
them who they are, affirming it consistently, and treating them like who you think they are. Not so much by trying to get them to do things. Like with the story i said before about my teacher, never once did he tell me to do anything. If he had told me to just do stuff i probably would have flipped him off and ditched his class like the rest of my teachers. Instead he just kept denying who was presenting myself as, as a slacker/loser, and instead he kept putting me into positions, and identifying me to who he thought i was.
I do admit it does take a bit of finesse to do this on some people, and if you are angry or bitter about her, doing this will probably make it seem like sarcasm to her. Also i don't know much about your relationship either. I mean if you have had 13 years of this,and just let her affirm and exhibit this behavior while you catered to it unknowingly... Yes that might take some undoing, and time because there is such a long history, but i believe it can be fixed. Think hammer and nail... You wear a person down with who they are, over and over again. After a while they realize it.
As for me doing this, its not a romantic relationship, but with enemies of the past. Before i was christian i led a totally different life.
So with some of the people from way back when, i find myself breaking bread with them a lot and friending them.
It is something being now close friends and sharing a beer with your mortal enemies, and actually having them work with and for me lol. I have also done this with some family members too. It just takes time, and it's not that i am looking for results, i just
live to what i believe. And most of the time i see people conform to it. Sometimes i don't see it, but i am certain that when i am gone
they might remember what i did and told/ showed them.
Hilarious, yeah I've done most of the behaviors of icing and rewarding behavior, problem is she's the hardest person I've ever dealt with, you would think with normal people they get the gist but she doesn't. I also didn't mention that she has Epilepsy so it might have made her brain abnormal from seizures.
Outside of all the typical behavior she's also untrusting, completely OCD controlling, the best part is they know right or wrong, and when it comes to other people behaving a certain way they know rules, boundaries, normal behaviors, but when it comes to themselves, the rules magically don't apply.
Even thinking about going back is dreadful, I mean I still love her, but I know as soon as I go back no matter what is said and all the promises made, she's going to instantly go back into her thought patterns. When you mean affirming who they are do you mean verbally or non verbally? I've noticed the above when you fluff them up through their EGO, and how do you handle unwanted behavior of say she says she's going to do something but doesn't? Come on "You're better than that, that's not you?" Also, like you mentioned there is a fine line before they realize you're "changing" them unconsciously haha.
Reminds me of all the red pill seduction stuff, but even those have heavy disclaimers of mental diseases and not working lol. Also, it feels like cheating consciously trying to change someones behavior against their will. I mean I'm sure you're grateful for your teacher, but still seems iffy.
I guess everything in life is manipulation either for Evil or Good, everything through our senses manipulates our mind, consciousness.
I prayed again for god to have total control of my life, so we'll see where that goes, I prayed this a few months back, and it's when these crazier things started to happen, so it's either God going to separate us for me to pursue his will for my life, because I'm stagnant, or he's going to cause severe change in her.
My life has come to the crossroads of following god fully, and she either needs to keep up and come along for the ride or she's going to get left behind. I also had this same exact and actual concern that god might leave her behind. Which is severely painful no matter how bad they treat you they become like family, like a love of a child from a parent, or God, unconditional, but God comes first, so no matter how painful it will be to separate for good it has to be done if it has to be done.
Maybe the separation is also needed for God to finally change her life. We'll see, please pray for God's will and guidance whatever it may be, and for the discernment and strength to carry it through.
Also what area are you located? You seem like a cool dude, professing my bromance online haha.
Outside of all the typical behavior she's also untrusting, completely OCD controlling, the best part is they know right or wrong, and when it comes to other people behaving a certain way they know rules, boundaries, normal behaviors, but when it comes to themselves, the rules magically don't apply.
Even thinking about going back is dreadful, I mean I still love her, but I know as soon as I go back no matter what is said and all the promises made, she's going to instantly go back into her thought patterns. When you mean affirming who they are do you mean verbally or non verbally? I've noticed the above when you fluff them up through their EGO, and how do you handle unwanted behavior of say she says she's going to do something but doesn't? Come on "You're better than that, that's not you?" Also, like you mentioned there is a fine line before they realize you're "changing" them unconsciously haha.
Reminds me of all the red pill seduction stuff, but even those have heavy disclaimers of mental diseases and not working lol. Also, it feels like cheating consciously trying to change someones behavior against their will. I mean I'm sure you're grateful for your teacher, but still seems iffy.
I guess everything in life is manipulation either for Evil or Good, everything through our senses manipulates our mind, consciousness.
I prayed again for god to have total control of my life, so we'll see where that goes, I prayed this a few months back, and it's when these crazier things started to happen, so it's either God going to separate us for me to pursue his will for my life, because I'm stagnant, or he's going to cause severe change in her.
My life has come to the crossroads of following god fully, and she either needs to keep up and come along for the ride or she's going to get left behind. I also had this same exact and actual concern that god might leave her behind. Which is severely painful no matter how bad they treat you they become like family, like a love of a child from a parent, or God, unconditional, but God comes first, so no matter how painful it will be to separate for good it has to be done if it has to be done.
Maybe the separation is also needed for God to finally change her life. We'll see, please pray for God's will and guidance whatever it may be, and for the discernment and strength to carry it through.
Also what area are you located? You seem like a cool dude, professing my bromance online haha.
When i say affirming i tell them who they are verbally but mostly while pointing it out or assuming it. If they actually did do something good you bring it out in the open and compliment them for it. Sometimes bringing good that they did up from the past and getting them to remember it and complimenting them in the now with it. Eg: " remember when you did ____? you were so amazing when you did that, and you still are, don't forget!" Bring good stuff out of the blue sometimes, it throws them off, adds to them positively and makes them reflect. You can tell them who they aren't too, but in the same coin you also would have to tell them who they are, so they have a point of reference identity wise. Sometimes they will probably reject the idea but after a while it will sink in. I have done this many times on some of the most hateful toxic people you could think of, and i have seen them change.
They act like they don't hear you, but they do.
As for it seeming somewhat manipulative, scripture says to be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. There is nothing wrong with positively suggesting people in the right direction. Most of the time people suggest the negative and just agree with the obvious negative people already project. I think its wise and wholesome to positively add to people who are negative though. For what God will do, All i can say is He will do what He does, and sometimes things have to fall into place so one can come to finally understand. I know for me i had to walk through all sorts of snake-pits to find Christ. I didn't have it easy, but looking back at it all, connecting the dots, i understand now. I will pray though. And im in the US right now, California to be exact. Lol bromance. where's my roses?
They act like they don't hear you, but they do.
As for it seeming somewhat manipulative, scripture says to be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. There is nothing wrong with positively suggesting people in the right direction. Most of the time people suggest the negative and just agree with the obvious negative people already project. I think its wise and wholesome to positively add to people who are negative though. For what God will do, All i can say is He will do what He does, and sometimes things have to fall into place so one can come to finally understand. I know for me i had to walk through all sorts of snake-pits to find Christ. I didn't have it easy, but looking back at it all, connecting the dots, i understand now. I will pray though. And im in the US right now, California to be exact. Lol bromance. where's my roses?
Also, changing their behavior does that actually change them into genuine loving people. It’s one thing for you to initiate behavioral changes, it’s another if they become truly loving and start considering others all on their own.
I’m assuming if you help them change to positive behaviors like reading the Bible, church ect it would naturally make them loving.
It’s also hilarious how biblical this technically is when Paul tells you to edify and build people up, that positivity causes people to change.
I’m assuming if you help them change to positive behaviors like reading the Bible, church ect it would naturally make them loving.
It’s also hilarious how biblical this technically is when Paul tells you to edify and build people up, that positivity causes people to change.
yeah obviously she treats her parents anyone that gives her actual love horrendously, then the others who ignore her she’s extra nice too beyond normal comprehension, probably until she gets into them then she’ll probably start abusing them also.
Thing is, is it real lasting change or just while you keep at it. Can see it becoming utterly draining if you always have to keep your guard up.
Thing is, is it real lasting change or just while you keep at it. Can see it becoming utterly draining if you always have to keep your guard up.
Try not to think on it too much, about what she is doing negatively, or has done negatively. The more you magnify it, the more annoyed you will get, and you could end up losing yourself, and losing your value in the midst of it. Instead, right now focus on the positives, your value, and the good that you can add to people, and show to her about herself through Christ in you. It may be true, she might have the potential to do all of those negative things. But the question is who will YOU be in the midst of anything, and what do YOU have YOUR faith in during those times? The last thing you want to do is set the negative others or self has before you, and predict and expect it in the future. Instead you would want and only see is the good that you are showing her and others,
if that makes any kind of sense. And instead magnify that in Christ. It can be draining if the main objective is for change in others while seeking no changes in self.
As for how long the change works, or if you have to remain consistent at it. I really can't say because people are different, and how they react is totally up them and God. Like in some cases i have seen people change completely, and i have seen some just conform just enough to be around me because they wanted to. But when new people would approach them they would still be toxic to them. Because you are positive, this really shouldn't be too much because you yourself are growing. It's effort mostly when it's not something that comes natural to you behavior-wise. That is one of the main reasons why i am always working on myself, seeking understanding so i can be consistent. Im not perfect though, so i make all kinds of mistakes. Changes in others is simply the byproduct of what you have and are producing in yourself and adding/ perceiving in others.
if that makes any kind of sense. And instead magnify that in Christ. It can be draining if the main objective is for change in others while seeking no changes in self.
As for how long the change works, or if you have to remain consistent at it. I really can't say because people are different, and how they react is totally up them and God. Like in some cases i have seen people change completely, and i have seen some just conform just enough to be around me because they wanted to. But when new people would approach them they would still be toxic to them. Because you are positive, this really shouldn't be too much because you yourself are growing. It's effort mostly when it's not something that comes natural to you behavior-wise. That is one of the main reasons why i am always working on myself, seeking understanding so i can be consistent. Im not perfect though, so i make all kinds of mistakes. Changes in others is simply the byproduct of what you have and are producing in yourself and adding/ perceiving in others.
-
2
- Show all
So I’ve been praying and fasting and the last few days I’ve been getting dreams, but highly charged negative ones, the most dreaded ones where she would get physical and start fighting. Which just makes me want to stay far away.
Recent messages I’ve heard about god moving you and preparing you for ministry nothing really about reconciliation.
I’m just waiting for now, any thoughts on the dreams, anyone have past experiences?
Recent messages I’ve heard about god moving you and preparing you for ministry nothing really about reconciliation.
I’m just waiting for now, any thoughts on the dreams, anyone have past experiences?
You mean physical violence? Yes she’s been violent before so she’s capable, borderline people go into these rages.
And become vengeful, also concerned about other damages, they exaggerate and lie about things.
Last time when she got locked up cops had to come and admit her, thank god her parents were there too, but if it became jail time they would obviously lie to cover her up.
I just don’t want to go back to that situation just feels dangerous, not to mention I’m just not going to tolerate being controlled belittled and accused of things every single minute.
Like I said unless it’s gods will sure but I’m not going to go back on my own initiative from whatever psychological biological addiction I have, or fainting hope of she’ll change.
What really got to me the last time I forgave her. Is after 13 years she acted like the same exact person she was 13 years ago when she met me.
Lying to these guys online like she had done to me verbatim. It truly frightened me that I can be with truly a sociopath having 0 remorse and continuing to lie to someone for 14 years straight. It felt almost like a game routine I do XYZ see how long I can continue to use this person.
I can’t even tell you the things she’s done it’s literally like a battered wife movie.
But like I said I’m not even sure if her limited kindness loving-ness was real or all an act. They swing from severe admiration of someone to severe hatred.
Again I can’t go back on my own initiative anymore I just have to wait and let god work.
And become vengeful, also concerned about other damages, they exaggerate and lie about things.
Last time when she got locked up cops had to come and admit her, thank god her parents were there too, but if it became jail time they would obviously lie to cover her up.
I just don’t want to go back to that situation just feels dangerous, not to mention I’m just not going to tolerate being controlled belittled and accused of things every single minute.
Like I said unless it’s gods will sure but I’m not going to go back on my own initiative from whatever psychological biological addiction I have, or fainting hope of she’ll change.
What really got to me the last time I forgave her. Is after 13 years she acted like the same exact person she was 13 years ago when she met me.
Lying to these guys online like she had done to me verbatim. It truly frightened me that I can be with truly a sociopath having 0 remorse and continuing to lie to someone for 14 years straight. It felt almost like a game routine I do XYZ see how long I can continue to use this person.
I can’t even tell you the things she’s done it’s literally like a battered wife movie.
But like I said I’m not even sure if her limited kindness loving-ness was real or all an act. They swing from severe admiration of someone to severe hatred.
Again I can’t go back on my own initiative anymore I just have to wait and let god work.
That is sounds like a very volatile situation. First and foremost your safety is the priority. You can certainly have some fellowship and give support with some barriers up. We like having you around as do others. LOL! I’m sure you do care for her and want nothing but the best, but you may have to call it quits for a time. I know that’s easier said than done.
It sounds like she had lot of work to be done on herself. God willing she gets the help she needs and improves, or it could go the other way and she could completely implode. Lord I pray that doesn’t happen. Again, if you really feel endangered, you need to remove yourself form that. If something happens that is bad...I don’t even like to think of those scenarios. Keep praying and petitioning the Lord!
It sounds like she had lot of work to be done on herself. God willing she gets the help she needs and improves, or it could go the other way and she could completely implode. Lord I pray that doesn’t happen. Again, if you really feel endangered, you need to remove yourself form that. If something happens that is bad...I don’t even like to think of those scenarios. Keep praying and petitioning the Lord!
-
1
- Show all