What is your BEST PROOF for a pre-trib Rapture?
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A code of assigning a numerical value to a name, word or phrase based on its letters. (code of assigning a numerical value to a name, word or phrase based on its letters. (Gematria)
Some number metaphors are used to represent the gospel in parables They prove themselves. by comparing the spiritual unseen understanding to the same, or faith to faith. Like 7 it represent perfection. Or 6 to represent mankind as a beast of the field .
The age to come is the new heavens and earth. The letter of the law, death will be cast into the lake of fire on the last day .The same last day in the twinkling of the eye we receive the promise of our living hope a new incorruptible bodies. The letter of the law will never rise again to corrupt a whole creation.
Six times in John the emphasis is on the "last day" Then the former things will not be remembered or ever come to mind . . in that age
John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Six times in John the emphasis is on the "last day" Then the former things will not be remembered or ever come to mind . . in that age
John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
BY gospel I assume you mean the Gentiles as the Church age is also know as the Time of the Gentiles. "Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled." (Luke 21:24) Jesus refereed to the Gentiles as Dogs: "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to the dogs." (Matthew 15:16) So the gospel seems to be a well hidden secret. All of the book of Acts written by Luke was given from the perspective of a Gentile that came to a saving knowledge of the truth. There was a lot of discussion about the gentiles among the Disciples.
Do you realize what you are saying? You better keep this under your hat because the devil does not want this truth to get out there. He wants to continue to convict people of sin that God has forgiven, forgotten and He remembers NO MORE. God says: "I will be merciful" "their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more". (Hebrews 8:12)
Cognate: 3403 mimnḗskō (from 3415 /mnáomai, "to remember, recollect," NAS dictionary) – properly, recall, bring to mind, remind oneself actively (purposefully); to remember, have in mind, "be mindful of."
Cognate: 3403 mimnḗskō (from 3415 /mnáomai, "to remember, recollect," NAS dictionary) – properly, recall, bring to mind, remind oneself actively (purposefully); to remember, have in mind, "be mindful of."
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That is not true at all. We are absolutely NOT in the age the disciples were born in, that age is gone. To deny this is to deny Jesus finished work. I'm not trying to be over dramatic here, but you are very wrong here. We are NOT in the age of the law, by His grace and Jesus beautiful sacrifice we are now in the age of grace, the age of redemption and EVERYTHING is being put under the seated King.
The King didn't take a seat until the work is done, it's done. Now lets take our marching orders and make disciples of all nations!!!
The King didn't take a seat until the work is done, it's done. Now lets take our marching orders and make disciples of all nations!!!
Well I appreciate you input and research, and I found this as a possible explanation,
The mark of the beast is the charagma. Charagma is the Greek word for mark.123 The charagma is a brand, etching, engraving, stamp or seal used to notarize official documents or documents of purchase, brand slaves as a mark of ownership, mark soldiers with the name of their general, and tattoo religious devotees of a particular god.124 It was also the name given to the image of the emperor stamped on currency. Thus each Roman coin was literally “marked” with the face and name of Caesar. The presence of the charagma or mark of Caesar on Roman coins and deeds of purchase made it impossible to buy or sell without it. Thus one could accurately say that Roman coins and deeds of purchase were a physical aspect of the mark of the beast since they were literally marked with the name and image of Caesar, the beast.
Interestingly, Ignatius an early Christian writer who lived from A.D. 35 to A.D. 107 seems to confirm the above interpretation concerning the fact that the physical mark of the beast was Roman money: “[F]or just as there are two coinages, the one of God and the other of the world, and each of them hath its proper stamp impressed upon it, the unbelievers the stamp of this world, but the faithful in love the stamp of God the Father through Jesus Christ[.]”125 Recall that charagma, the Greek word for mark, was the same word used to refer to the stamp on Roman currency.
Source https://revelationrevolution.org/revelation-13-a-preterist-commentary/
So see this there are also things out there that do explain this on the other side too. But I have to honestly say that these little details are kind of secondary to the bigger issues, for example there being no temple now. In comparison me know knowing exactly how Rev 13:17 worked out then is small beans to people waiting for a third temple to be built, but before I start saying to much in assumptions and ignorance, what exactly do you believe, because yesterday for the first time I met someone who believed the pre trib rapture, but not in an earthly 3rd temple. I have NO clue what belief she way referring to because it was new to me, but honestly I think we were speaking and going over scripture and they just got painted into a corner and didn't really know how to answer from there, but I want to ask from the jump with you so I don't waist time speaking about things you don't even believe. My point with this is that you can take this and go through the routine to find the reason why this matches your view, but have no problem with the temple/end of the AGE not world/Jesus telling the people there that ALL these things would take place in that generation. It baffles me how anyone can look at everything and think that the pre-trib view is more solid. Before I go any further I would like to hear from you what you believe so I'm not talking about things you don't even ascribe to.
The mark of the beast is the charagma. Charagma is the Greek word for mark.123 The charagma is a brand, etching, engraving, stamp or seal used to notarize official documents or documents of purchase, brand slaves as a mark of ownership, mark soldiers with the name of their general, and tattoo religious devotees of a particular god.124 It was also the name given to the image of the emperor stamped on currency. Thus each Roman coin was literally “marked” with the face and name of Caesar. The presence of the charagma or mark of Caesar on Roman coins and deeds of purchase made it impossible to buy or sell without it. Thus one could accurately say that Roman coins and deeds of purchase were a physical aspect of the mark of the beast since they were literally marked with the name and image of Caesar, the beast.
Interestingly, Ignatius an early Christian writer who lived from A.D. 35 to A.D. 107 seems to confirm the above interpretation concerning the fact that the physical mark of the beast was Roman money: “[F]or just as there are two coinages, the one of God and the other of the world, and each of them hath its proper stamp impressed upon it, the unbelievers the stamp of this world, but the faithful in love the stamp of God the Father through Jesus Christ[.]”125 Recall that charagma, the Greek word for mark, was the same word used to refer to the stamp on Roman currency.
Source https://revelationrevolution.org/revelation-13-a-preterist-commentary/
So see this there are also things out there that do explain this on the other side too. But I have to honestly say that these little details are kind of secondary to the bigger issues, for example there being no temple now. In comparison me know knowing exactly how Rev 13:17 worked out then is small beans to people waiting for a third temple to be built, but before I start saying to much in assumptions and ignorance, what exactly do you believe, because yesterday for the first time I met someone who believed the pre trib rapture, but not in an earthly 3rd temple. I have NO clue what belief she way referring to because it was new to me, but honestly I think we were speaking and going over scripture and they just got painted into a corner and didn't really know how to answer from there, but I want to ask from the jump with you so I don't waist time speaking about things you don't even believe. My point with this is that you can take this and go through the routine to find the reason why this matches your view, but have no problem with the temple/end of the AGE not world/Jesus telling the people there that ALL these things would take place in that generation. It baffles me how anyone can look at everything and think that the pre-trib view is more solid. Before I go any further I would like to hear from you what you believe so I'm not talking about things you don't even ascribe to.
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He does not kill every human .
He comes against the ac,the devil,and that army arrayed to be destroyed.
He comes back with the redeemed as is vividly depicted in rev 19.
He is,in effect "repoing/repossessing" the earth.
You must get into purpose.
Rapture purpose = gathering of the bride
Second coming after the gt = repossing the earth.
First coming = redemption of man
Second coming = redemption of the earth.
Rapture is gathering of the bride,which is neither first or second coming.
If you look at Ruth you can see the vivid picture of the gentile bride,and a separate dynamic.... Redeeming the land inclusive of naomi (the jewish dynamic).
Ruth was not connected to the kinsman redeemer dynamic.
She was a COMPLETELY separate component.
The key to the rapture is the gentile bride/groom ingredient.
GT is specifically for the jewish covenant people.
Just as ruth and naomi were parallel "players" yet separate purpose and destiny,we see those types in end times.
It is not at all as some fear "those rapture escapists are in for a huge fall and will wish they were prepared for the trib"
Totally out in left field and out of step with purpose
He comes against the ac,the devil,and that army arrayed to be destroyed.
He comes back with the redeemed as is vividly depicted in rev 19.
He is,in effect "repoing/repossessing" the earth.
You must get into purpose.
Rapture purpose = gathering of the bride
Second coming after the gt = repossing the earth.
First coming = redemption of man
Second coming = redemption of the earth.
Rapture is gathering of the bride,which is neither first or second coming.
If you look at Ruth you can see the vivid picture of the gentile bride,and a separate dynamic.... Redeeming the land inclusive of naomi (the jewish dynamic).
Ruth was not connected to the kinsman redeemer dynamic.
She was a COMPLETELY separate component.
The key to the rapture is the gentile bride/groom ingredient.
GT is specifically for the jewish covenant people.
Just as ruth and naomi were parallel "players" yet separate purpose and destiny,we see those types in end times.
It is not at all as some fear "those rapture escapists are in for a huge fall and will wish they were prepared for the trib"
Totally out in left field and out of step with purpose
(Hosea 1:Yep Luke 21 and 9:27, Mark 9:1, and Mat 24, and in Mat 10, and 16, oh yea ad Mat 23.
That is what I'm referring to, and no amount of "in original Greek", or mental gymnastic can convince me that He meant the exact opposite of what He said. Trust me I have read at least many of the arguments you would send me, I have read the opposing view on this well and I am still open to anything I haven't heard yet, but no amount of "Greek+[bracketed words]+(parentheses)" can convince me that when Jesus says, "Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened", He meant "Way in the future, long after you are all dead, LONG after this generation has passed away, these things will then happen. By the way write this down, it may come in handy later."
See how dumb that looks on "paper"?
Yes that was one one the instances of Jesus saying this is recorded.
That is what I'm referring to, and no amount of "in original Greek", or mental gymnastic can convince me that He meant the exact opposite of what He said. Trust me I have read at least many of the arguments you would send me, I have read the opposing view on this well and I am still open to anything I haven't heard yet, but no amount of "Greek+[bracketed words]+(parentheses)" can convince me that when Jesus says, "Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened", He meant "Way in the future, long after you are all dead, LONG after this generation has passed away, these things will then happen. By the way write this down, it may come in handy later."
See how dumb that looks on "paper"?
Yes that was one one the instances of Jesus saying this is recorded.
In post #1133,page #57 of this thread I stated my view on the temple. I have never been pre trib. I'm just reading along in the thread the same as you. What I do see is both preterism and dispensationism walking into a trap. That is the head received a deadly wound in ad70 and was in the pit then in 1948 the two horned beast Christian Zionism/Jewish Zionism healed that deadly wound and it ascended out of the pit (Rev. 17:8).
So any temple they build will be in a place where it ought not be, that is I am among the many Christians who are the temple of the Spirit of God and he dwells in me. In short the temple they will build denies the true temple and God will not dwell in it the Man of sin will. Afterwards Jesus my Lord who is the head of the building and those of his body will descend to earth and remove the temple men have built.
"Earth" was a metaphor for Israel all over the Bible. Thus the dead bodies, not getting buried were in Israel during their great tribulation. Oops. Jesus' presence (parousia) has been with His church since the first century. Since He is with us now as Head of the Church, He doesn't need to come back. Please let me know if you think Christ is not present with His church and I will address that flaw in thought.
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z
The deadly wound happen in 1798, when HE WAS PUT IN PRISON WHERE HE DIED . & THIS SEPERATED church & STATE so the Catholic Church Could no longer turn them over to the state to have them killed. Now the wound is being healed .They are all ready Church & state again . & He's growing power , & before we know it He will have the power to turn us over to the state & have us killed .GOD BLESS
The deadly wound happen in 1798, when HE WAS PUT IN PRISON WHERE HE DIED . & THIS SEPERATED church & STATE so the Catholic Church Could no longer turn them over to the state to have them killed. Now the wound is being healed .They are all ready Church & state again . & He's growing power , & before we know it He will have the power to turn us over to the state & have us killed .GOD BLESS
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