Can you know the date and time of Christ Return?

[TheDivineWatermark]

The 144,000 would be the Barley, not the Wheat.

I disagree, and have pointed out how 1) the wording in Rev14:4 parallels the SECOND of the two mentions of "firstfruit" in Lev23 (that of v.17 [and THIS is contrasted with the wording of that of 1Cor5:7 stated factually OF "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY [the 'ONE BODY']"]); and 2) that Paul goes to great lengths to show "OUR identification" with Christ (as the "ONE BODY"/"the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [and in numerous other ways and details of [/found in] his assigned task of "writings" [epistles]), noting that Eph1:10 is not speaking of the "NOW" ["in this present age [singular]"] like the rest of that epistle is speaking to...

You have this exactly backwards

(...which is what happens when we zero our focus too narrowly on the events of the 2nd half of the 7-yr trib, IMHO).

"The 144,000" [yet future, and future to "our Rapture" as well!] are NOT the "FIRST of the firstfruit"

 

[Hewillcome2040]

I disagree, and have pointed out how 1) the wording in Rev14:4 parallels the SECOND of the two mentions of "firstfruit" in Lev23 (that of v.17 [and THIS is contrasted with the wording of that of 1Cor5:7 stated factually OF "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY [the 'ONE BODY']"]); and 2) that Paul goes to great lengths to show "OUR identification" with Christ (as the "ONE BODY"/"the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [and in numerous other ways and details of [/found in] his assigned task of "writings" [epistles]), noting that Eph1:10 is not speaking of the "NOW" ["in this present age [singular]"] like the rest of that epistle is speaking to...

You have this exactly backwards

(...which is what happens when we zero our focus too narrowly on the events of the 2nd half of the 7-yr trib, IMHO).

"The 144,000" [yet future, and future to "our Rapture" as well!] are NOT the "FIRST of the firstfruit"

So what time is this:

How do you know its not both the Barley and the Wheat?
They are both Firstfruits.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

First of all, I'm not entirely sure of your question (what do you mean by the word "its" in your question? "its"-what?? [fill in the underlined with another word that you intend here])

Secondly, do you see the TWO [distinct] MENTIONS of "firstfruit" in Leviticus 23?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Because the pattern was provided showing a second coming is yet to happen.
After all why do you think Moses didn't enter the promised land? His pattern was to be evidence of the First Coming. Joshua as the Second Coming. Just as Joshua started off by blowing the 7 trumpets and knocking down the walls of Jericho, so will Jesus come during the Feast of Trumpets and knock down the walls of Spiritual Babylon.

By the bold ^ above, are you saying that you believe the "7 [judgment] Trumpets" of Revelation all take place:

--in one literal week's [7 literal days'] time DURING the literal time-frame of "the Feast of Trumpets," or

--in "7-yrs' time" [LIKE the type, but in a broader sense (like, "7 days to 7 years")], or

--during the 3.5-yr "GREAT" tribulation (only), or

--other?


I can't quite tell from how you have written it.

 

[garee]

Christians are to observe the Feasts in Spirit and in Truth.

Spirit of Truth as a shadow that became sight at the time of reformation . What would a doctrine of men have with a doctrine of God other than for those who worship shadows no substance?

let look to the meat of the word and not worship shadows.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the usingafter the commandments and doctrines of men? Collossians 2: 16-22

 

[garee]

Spirit of Truth as a shadow that became sight at the time of reformation . What would a doctrine of men have with a doctrine of God other than for those who worship shadows no substance.

lets look to the meat of the word and not worship shadows.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the usingafter the commandments and doctrines of men? Collossians 2: 16-22

 

[Blik]

Christians are to observe the Feasts in Spirit and in Truth.

Christians observe man made holidays as they worship, but if God tells them to observe the holiday they refuse.

 

[JohnR7]

It is talking about the 2nd Coming of Christ.

People get the scriptures for the second and third coming confused. First Jesus comes for His Church, then Jesus returns with His Church.

Thessalonians 4:17 explains: “Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.” We are caught up to meet the Lord IN THE AIR. This is different from when His feet touch the ground at the Mount of Olives. The is the parable of the bride and the bride groom talks about this.

 

[Dino246]

Christians observe man made holidays as they worship, but if God tells them to observe the holiday they refuse.

Where in Scripture does God tell CHRISTIANS to observe any holidays?

 

[JohnR7]

The 144,000 would be the Barley, not the Wheat.

The 144,000 are 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes. They will give a witness and testimony for God during the tribulation period when the Church is no longer here on the earth. They have already started, they have already begun to write the books. They make an attempt to explain a little bit about this in the movie: "A Stranger Among Us". They talk about the sacred union of a man and a women in marriage in their community. Rev 14:4 "144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they are virgins." God has kept them pure onto Himself.

 

[JohnR7]

Where in Scripture does God tell CHRISTIANS to observe any holidays?

Jesus observed passover. They were in the upper room on the day of Pentecostal. All of the major events in the Christian Church follow the "Jewish" Holidays.

 

[JohnR7]

The reasons I do not believe that

The Church age is going to end and the Kingdom age is going to begin. We are already in that transition now. There will be a 1,000 year reign of Christ here on the Earth. Even if we do not understand all of the details of how that is going to happen.

 

[Dino246]

Jesus observed passover. They were in the upper room on the day of Pentecostal. All of the major events in the Christian Church follow the "Jewish" Holidays.

That is possible, and even probable. However, these major events would be the fulfillment of the Jewish holy days, which is markedly different from a command to observe them.

 

[garee]

The 144,000 are 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes. They will give a witness and testimony for God during the tribulation period when the Church is no longer here on the earth. They have already started, they have already begun to write the books. They make an attempt to explain a little bit about this in the movie: "A Stranger Among Us". They talk about the sacred union of a man and a women in marriage in their community. Rev 14:4 "144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they are virgins." God has kept them pure onto Himself.

The metaphorical number 144,000 (a unknown) God does not number rather than walking by faith the unseen. It is used in parables to represent all whose names were written in the lambs book of life from the foundation of the world. The six days God did work before he rested on the 7th. It has nothing to do with the corrupted flesh of nations .But does have to do with all who have been redeemed from the earth as new creatures .Neither male nor female, Jew nor Gentile. Called the bride or wife of Christ.

As new creatures called the bride of Christ we are considered "chaste virgins" having not fornicated with other gods, the strange woman.

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ

She as the mother of us all is pictured in the parable Revelation 12.

Revelation 12 King James Version (KJV)And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars. And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

She the mother of us all signified as a surrogate womb like in the example of Paul . . holding out the gospel seed , travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Again nothing to do with the corrupted flesh and blood of any nation. But a new creration.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The Church age is going to end

True.

and the Kingdom age is going to begin.

True.

We are already in that transition now.

I question that.

There will be a 1,000 year reign of Christ here on the Earth. Even if we do not understand all of the details of how that is going to happen.

Okay (not disagreeing too much there), but what *I* was speaking of was what is stated in:

Matthew 24:36 [/Mk13:32] -

"Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth [PERFECT indicative] no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

...which I believe refers back to what was just said in vv.27-28,30b, especially (and vv.29-31 generally), meaning, the point in time of His Second Coming to the earth [Rev19]; and that this verse [/verses] cannot be used to say "no one CAN EVER know," nor "no one WILL EVER know," nor that "it is IMPOSSIBLE to know" (etc), but that the PERFECT tense means [or includes as part of it] "until or unless some new information comes along that CHANGES that status" and that is what I believe occurred when Jesus RESURRECTED/ASCENDED and then HE provided further information on THAT Subject in the LATER [95ad] "[The] Revelation of Jesus Christ WHICH GOD GAVE UNTO HIM, TO SHEW UNTO His servants..." (i.e. the "FUTURE" aspects of the Book [comp. 1:1 with 1:19c/4:1], that must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]"--the future, specific, limited time period [aka the 7-yr trib] that will LEAD UP TO His "RETURN" to the earth/Rev19 [the SUBJECT of Matt24:36/24:27-28,30b!]--not "our Rapture" per context)

 

[JohnR7]

Christians are to observe the Feasts in Spirit and in Truth.

The "Feasts" are given for teaching opportunities. So parents can teach their children. So the Rabbi can teach the people. They use words like allegory, metaphor, archetype, homily, symbol, paradigm, parable, allusion and so on. The Bible is literal and the Bible also has deeper meaning allured to or hinted at by the text. So we are given interpretive tools and methodology. The Bible was written for the generation at the time and the Bible is written for future generations. There are books being written today that will be read by people during the 1,000 year reign of Christ or the Kingdom age. I have a book I wrote 30 years ago pretty much to myself today. Just as Israel spent 40 years in the wilderness we really do not enter in understanding the Bible until we have studied the Bible for 40 years.

 

[JohnR7]

I question that.

2020 is the beginning of the Great Harvest at the end of this (gentile) age. Even Moses talked about this decade: "I will send rain on your land in its season, both autumn and spring rains, so that you may gather in your grain, new wine and olive oil." (Deut11:14) This is a time they will study and talk about for the next 1,000 years because so many people are going to come to God in the next 10 years.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

2020 is the beginning of the Great Harvest at the end of this (gentile) age. […] because so many people are going to come to God in the next 10 years.

Personally, I don't believe any of the "harvests" [in and of themselves] transpire over the course of "10 years" time. Don't think that's what the word "harvest" represents, but believe as you wish.



[now, if you're talkin' the "7 good years, before the 7 bad years," then I can agree with you there!]

 

[UnoiAmarah]

Can you know the date and time of Christ Return?

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
2 Cor 13:5

So if Jesus Christ is in you then why are you waiting for Christ's return?

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Let me tell you what that verse says and what it doesn't say.

If you read the passage again the reference in verse 24:36 is referring unto the heaven and the earth passing away, not coming of the Son of man.

31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
Mark 13:31-32

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

So if Jesus Christ is in you then why are you waiting for Christ's return?

"For our citizenship exists in the heavens, from whence also we eagerly await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ," - Philippians 3:20





[besides, Paul said "...I have BETROTHED you to One Husband..." so it would be kinda odd not to "eagerly await" Him ]