Can you know the date and time of Christ Return?

[Hewillcome2040]

uh huh

so if someone disagrees with you they are baloney and not meat?

I guess I am full of baloney then

only a mod can delete it but I don't think they will...but they might

many people come in here and try to state they alone have the 'real' truth

which would mean the Holy Spirit is very confused because we have many different truths, yet Jesus states He is truth and there is therefore but one truth

I probably didn't hit the post button when I created the post as I went back to delete it but didn't find it. So all is well. I don't think it was wise to post it at this time to the broad audience.

As for your comments about disagreements, I posted a thread about disagreeing. I don't turn to personal attacks or attempt to characterize someone's statements differently. Opposing someone personally is not what the Spirit I'm after is all about.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Verse 44 starts out with the word, "Therefore/because of this/for this reason" (referring back to what had just been said in:

"43 and this know, that if the master of the house had known in what watch [i.e. watch of the night] the thief doth come, he had watched, and not suffered his house to be broken through"

[or]

"43 And know this, that if the master of the house had known in what time of night the thief comes, he would have watched and not have allowed his house to be broken into."



[note to the readers: this context is speaking to the time of His Second Coming to the earth (not our Rapture); the tribulation period is also (known as) the "IN THE NIGHT"/"DARK/DARKNESS" time period (involving the "NIGHT WATCHES") which time period is that which leads UP TO that point in time (His "RETURN" to the earth) Rev19]

44 starts for this reason, which refers to the prior statement, so for the reasons given above, you must; what? Also watch, why? because I am coming in an hour that you don't think I am.

Language mechanics are not as hard as typing these posts with my thumbs on my phone.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I probably didn't hit the post button when I created the post as I went back to delete it but didn't find it. So all is well. I don't think it was wise to post it at this time to the broad audience.

As for your comments about disagreements, I posted a thread about disagreeing. I don't turn to personal attacks or attempt to characterize someone's statements differently. Opposing someone personally is not what the Spirit I'm after is all about.

huh

I consider telling people they are not ready for meat yet, pretty much fits into the context of personal remarks if not attacks

being suave about dissing others does not turn into a compliment

of course you are opposing others personally! how else is someone going to take being told they are really below you when it comes to understanding scripture?

interesting to me, that you do not seem to understand that

that is the nature of discussions or debates.

 

[Nehemiah6]

If we hadn't shoved the feasts out of our life saying they are like fleshly circumcision that is not a valid command today, we would have so much of God's wisdom.

You seem to be forgetting that the feasts were given to Israel, not to the Church, and not to Gentiles. The feast of tabernacles is very specific: Ye shall dwell in booths seven days; all that are Israelites born shall dwell in booths: (Lev 23:42) So if you are not a direct descendant of Abraham and know to which tribe you belong, it would not be applicable.

Furthermore, in order to observe the feasts according to God's commandments, (1) the Levitical priesthood would need to be in place, (2) the temple would need to be in place, and (3) the animal sacrifices would need to be performed as specified:

Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: on the eighth day shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: it is a solemn assembly;and ye shall do no servile work therein. These are the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day: (Lev 23:36,37)

Do you see why this feast cannot be observed any longer? And the Law of Moses is very clear. If you do not do everything as it is written, you come under a curse.

As to connecting this feast with the Second Coming of Christ, there is no Scripture which actually makes this connection. Furthermore, the apostles (and by extension the Church) were told to focus on the Great Commission, since they were not to know the times and the seasons when God would restore the kingdom of Israel on earth (which will happen after the Second Coming:

And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. (Acts 1:7,8)

 

[JohnR7]

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

He was talking about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. So we know now when this happened. Now we are looking at the end of the Church age. Dispensationists believe the church age is 2,000 years and then the Kingdom age begins when we will rule and reign with Christ here on the Earth for 1,000 years.

What you are refering to is Acts 1:11 ""Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven." Zechariah 14:4 talks about this also: "On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south."

I believe in a pre trib rapture when we are caught up in the air to forever be with Him. I believe that post trib His feet will touch the ground and He will rule and reign on the Earth for 1,000 years. Then there will be a New Heaven and a New Earth at the end of the 1,000 years.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Hewillcome2040 said: Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

He was talking about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. So we know now when this happened. Now we are looking at the end of the Church age.

The reasons I do not believe that ^ to be the case, are... a few specific ones:

• Matt24:4-8/Mk13:5-8/Lk21:8-11 all speak of the same "the beginning of birth pangs" (not NAMED in Lk21:8-11 but DESCRIBED there, just the same)--these are the SAME EVENTS [SAME time-slot];
  
  
  but in Lk21:12 it basically says that "the 70ad events" [vv.12-24a] must take place "BEFORE all these [BEFORE all these 'beginning of birth pangs']"; whereas in Matt24 (esp. v. 15's "therefore"), it is making the point to say that the "AoD" takes place AFTER "the beginning of birth pangs" (vv.4-8); THUS the "SEE-then-FLEE" of Lk21:20-21 [in the 70ad events] is completely distinct from the "SEE-then-FLEE" of Matt24:15-16
  
  
  
• in Matthew 24:15, Jesus said "[see] the abomination [SINGULAR] of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet"... and Daniel the prophet spoke of "abomination [SINGULAR]" ONLY in 11:31 and 12:11 (some say 11:31 is "past history" with Antiochus Epiphanes, from the time Jesus spoke this), so we can look at 12:11 and that, to me, is connected with the specific future time period [12:1-4,6,7,13] that the REST of the chpt is also speaking of (parallel to some OTHER passages also about "Israel coming up out of the graveyard of nations, where scattered"), and at the "END OF" such day-amounts, Daniel is said he will "STAND in thy LOT at the END of the days [the "days" spoken of in that context]"... (yet future to us)

• think I had another one... but have been distracted (as you are aware)

 

[Blik]

You seem to be forgetting that the feasts were given to Israel, not to the Church, and not to Gentiles. The feast of tabernacles is very specific: Ye shall dwell in booths seven days; all that are Israelites born shall dwell in booths: (Lev 23:42) So if you are not a direct descendant of Abraham and know to which tribe you belong, it would not be applicable.

Furthermore, in order to observe the feasts according to God's commandments, (1) the Levitical priesthood would need to be in place, (2) the temple would need to be in place, and (3) the animal sacrifices would need to be performed as specified:

Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: on the eighth day shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: it is a solemn assembly;and ye shall do no servile work therein. These are the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day: (Lev 23:36,37)

Do you see why this feast cannot be observed any longer? And the Law of Moses is very clear. If you do not do everything as it is written, you come under a curse.

As to connecting this feast with the Second Coming of Christ, there is no Scripture which actually makes this connection. Furthermore, the apostles (and by extension the Church) were told to focus on the Great Commission, since they were not to know the times and the seasons when God would restore the kingdom of Israel on earth (which will happen after the Second Coming:

And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. (Acts 1:7,8)

In my bible believers are adopted into Israel, we are seeds of Abraham. I wouldn't trust yours if it states that gentiles are excluded from being in the family of God.

I also wouldn't trust a God such as you have that is race conscious. My God does not discriminate against what my bible calls strangers. The only way my God sets any ethnic group apart is to bless the Jewish race for showing His ways to the gentiles.

Also, you simply are not receiving the scripture guidance when you can even read the freeing of the Israelis from slavery and not understand it is showing the pattern of God of freeing us from slavery. The feasts celebrate this pattern, if you don't understand that you simply do not understand God.

 

[Hewillcome2040]

huh

I consider telling people they are not ready for meat yet, pretty much fits into the context of personal remarks if not attacks

being suave about dissing others does not turn into a compliment

of course you are opposing others personally! how else is someone going to take being told they are really below you when it comes to understanding scripture?

interesting to me, that you do not seem to understand that

that is the nature of discussions or debates.

When people use sensitivity as a sword, I move on.

 

[Hewillcome2040]

You seem to be forgetting that the feasts were given to Israel, not to the Church, and not to Gentiles. The feast of tabernacles is very specific: Ye shall dwell in booths seven days; all that are Israelites born shall dwell in booths: (Lev 23:42) So if you are not a direct descendant of Abraham and know to which tribe you belong, it would not be applicable.

Furthermore, in order to observe the feasts according to God's commandments, (1) the Levitical priesthood would need to be in place, (2) the temple would need to be in place, and (3) the animal sacrifices would need to be performed as specified:

Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: on the eighth day shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: it is a solemn assembly;and ye shall do no servile work therein. These are the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day: (Lev 23:36,37)

Do you see why this feast cannot be observed any longer? And the Law of Moses is very clear. If you do not do everything as it is written, you come under a curse.

As to connecting this feast with the Second Coming of Christ, there is no Scripture which actually makes this connection. Furthermore, the apostles (and by extension the Church) were told to focus on the Great Commission, since they were not to know the times and the seasons when God would restore the kingdom of Israel on earth (which will happen after the Second Coming:

And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. (Acts 1:7,8)

Christians are to observe the Feasts in Spirit and in Truth.

 

[Hewillcome2040]

He was talking about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. So we know now when this happened. Now we are looking at the end of the Church age. Dispensationists believe the church age is 2,000 years and then the Kingdom age begins when we will rule and reign with Christ here on the Earth for 1,000 years.

What you are refering to is Acts 1:11 ""Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven." Zechariah 14:4 talks about this also: "On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south."

I believe in a pre trib rapture when we are caught up in the air to forever be with Him. I believe that post trib His feet will touch the ground and He will rule and reign on the Earth for 1,000 years. Then there will be a New Heaven and a New Earth at the end of the 1,000 years.

It is talking about the 2nd Coming of Christ.
The very next verse confirms the context:

Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

 

[Hewillcome2040]

In my bible believers are adopted into Israel, we are seeds of Abraham. I wouldn't trust yours if it states that gentiles are excluded from being in the family of God.

I also wouldn't trust a God such as you have that is race conscious. My God does not discriminate against what my bible calls strangers. The only way my God sets any ethnic group apart is to bless the Jewish race for showing His ways to the gentiles.

Also, you simply are not receiving the scripture guidance when you can even read the freeing of the Israelis from slavery and not understand it is showing the pattern of God of freeing us from slavery. The feasts celebrate this pattern, if you don't understand that you simply do not understand God.

The pattern teaches us.

Old Testament - chosen group of people - Israelites - Chosen priesthood - Levites
New Testament - chosen group of people - everyone - Chosen priesthood - those chosen in this dispensation.

The reality is that only the Chosen (Church) is being called to repentance at this time. They were serve in the role of which the Levites were a type. In other words, the Chosen now will be the Holy Priesthood and serve towards the atonement of the rest of the congregation (everyone) later upon the arrival of the High Priest and Lord of Lords Jesus Christ.

 

[Nehemiah6]

In my bible believers are adopted into Israel, we are seeds of Abraham. I wouldn't trust yours if it states that gentiles are excluded from being in the family of God.

Now you are reverting to Gospel Truth and the New Covenant. TOTALLY OFF TOPIC.

Stick to the exact words in Leviticus. There is no bending of the rules according to Moses.

Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this Law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen. (Deut 27:26)

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the Law to do them. (Gal 3:10)

 

[Nehemiah6]

Christians are to observe the Feasts in Spirit and in Truth.

That simply won't wash. The feasts were *shadows*. The reality is Christ and the Body of Christ (the Church). Do you prefer shadows to realities? Christians have never been told to observe the feasts of the Old Covenant for the simple reason that the Levitical priesthood was abolished at the cross.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day* [ἑορτῆς heortēs = feast days], or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the Body is of Christ. (Col 2:16,17)

Strong's Concordance (1859)
heorté: a feast, a festival
Original Word: ἑορτή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: heorté
Phonetic Spelling: (heh-or-tay')
Definition: a feast, a festival
Usage: a festival, feast, periodically recurring.

 

[Blik]

The pattern teaches us.

Old Testament - chosen group of people - Israelites - Chosen priesthood - Levites
New Testament - chosen group of people - everyone - Chosen priesthood - those chosen in this dispensation.

The reality is that only the Chosen (Church) is being called to repentance at this time. They were serve in the role of which the Levites were a type. In other words, the Chosen now will be the Holy Priesthood and serve towards the atonement of the rest of the congregation (everyone) later upon the arrival of the High Priest and Lord of Lords Jesus Christ.

The Lord is speaking to you, I am so sorry you don't understand.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

While I agree that "the Church which is His body" is not to [/not commanded to] "observe" them, I do believe the text in Colossians 2 is saying, "which ARE [plural] a shadow [singular] of the things COMING [plural]" ("present tense" they are a shadow of "the things COMING"--not that we are to "observe" them... but that they still will be used to point ISRAEL to their Messiah [in the FUTURE trib yrs, esp], in certain ways, for lack of a better way of saying it... [in addition to providing FOR THEM an accurate time-line of events within the trib yrs, to their benefit... during a time of great deception!])

 

[Hewillcome2040]

That simply won't wash. The feasts were *shadows*. The reality is Christ and the Body of Christ (the Church). Do you prefer shadows to realities? Christians have never been told to observe the feasts of the Old Covenant for the simple reason that the Levitical priesthood was abolished at the cross.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day* [ἑορτῆς heortēs = feast days], or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the Body is of Christ. (Col 2:16,17)

Strong's Concordance (1859)
heorté: a feast, a festival
Original Word: ἑορτή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: heorté
Phonetic Spelling: (heh-or-tay')
Definition: a feast, a festival
Usage: a festival, feast, periodically recurring.

The actual practice from the Jewish perspective is a shadow. But the just like the Law of the Spiritual significant and intent of those days should continue to be observed. The time of the festivals is of utmost importance especially in understanding prophetic events. Such as how the 1335 days of Daniel is stated. Well it says blessed are they that reach the 1335 days. Why? Because that would be the Feast of Tabernacles.

The Ten Commands written on tables of stone are still to be observed in Spirit in fleshy tables of the Heart.

2Co_3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

You see you need to understand the those things. Those physical things from the Old Testament actually represented as a training/type things where are Spiritual and enduring.

Problem was that the image (physical) instead of being used to understand the Spiritual became a replacement for it and therefore the thing made was revered instead.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The time of the festivals is of utmost importance especially in understanding prophetic events. Such as how the 1335 days of Daniel is stated. Well it says blessed are they that reach the 1335 days. Why? Because that would be the Feast of Tabernacles.

While I disagree with your "conclusion" (that "the 1335 days" falls on "the Feast of Tabernacles"), I kind of agree with your overall point... that grasping the "timing" of the [future] trib events is one purpose of them [more like "an outline/'A SHADOW'"], not that I believe "the Church which is His body" will be present on the earth in the trib years, but that Israel [the believing remnant anyway] will indeed BENEFIT from knowing this and will benefit others, by this "understanding" [Dan12:1-4,10, for example, "the WISE [of Israel, esp, per context] WILL UNDERSTAND"])

 

[Blik]

While I agree that "the Church which is His body" is not to [/not commanded to] "observe" them, I do believe the text in Colossians 2 is saying, "which ARE [plural] a shadow [singular] of the things COMING [plural]" ("present tense" they are a shadow of "the things COMING"--not that we are to "observe" them... but that they still will be used to point ISRAEL to their Messiah [in the FUTURE trib yrs, esp], in certain ways, for lack of a better way of saying it... [in addition to providing FOR THEM an accurate time-line of events within the trib yrs, to their benefit... during a time of great deception!])

Do you really think that if your parents had been born into a Jewish family that you would have a different God?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Do you really think that if your parents had been born into a Jewish family that you would have a different God?

I don't believe there's a "different God"... I believe what Scripture states, here:

• Leviticus 23:1-2 - "1 Then the LORD said to Moses, 2 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them, ‘These are My appointed feasts, the feasts of the LORD that you are to proclaim as sacred assemblies."

• 1 Corinthians 11:26 (said to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY") - " 26 For as often as you may eat this bread and may drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He should come."
  
  [other passages I've pointed out before, like how "the 144,000 [of Israel]" [future] are "the firstfruit" of the "WHEAT harvest" that is associated with the SECOND of TWO mentions of "firstfruit" in Lev23, this second one in v.17, where it says, "TWO loaves" and "baken WITH LEAVEN"... this is not speaking of "us/the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"... which James 1:18 speaks of "A KIND of firstfruit," meaning, of more than one kind/kind-of-"HARVEST" [there isn't just ONE "HARVEST" in nature or in Scripture... won't post all that again here in this post])

[you and I weren't instructed to build the ark, either, for example... tho Noah's God is our God too, same God!]

 

[Hewillcome2040]

I don't believe there's a "different God"... I believe what Scripture states, here:

• Leviticus 23:1-2 - "1 Then the LORD said to Moses, 2 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them, ‘These are My appointed feasts, the feasts of the LORD that you are to proclaim as sacred assemblies."

• 1 Corinthians 11:26 (said to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY") - " 26 For as often as you may eat this bread and may drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He should come."
  
  [other passages I've pointed out before, like how "the 144,000 [of Israel]" [future] are "the firstfruit" of the "WHEAT harvest" that is associated with the SECOND of TWO mentions of "firstfruit" in Lev23, this second one in v.17, where it says, "TWO loaves" and "baken WITH LEAVEN"... this is not speaking of "us/the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"... which James 1:18 speaks of "A KIND of firstfruit," meaning, of more than one kind/kind-of-"HARVEST" [there isn't just ONE "HARVEST" in nature or in Scripture... won't post all that again here in this post])

[you and I weren't instructed to build the ark, either, for example... tho Noah's God is our God too, same God!]

The 144,000 would be the Barley, not the Wheat.