Not By Works

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Chris1975 said:
When you first believed in Jesus, you were justified. The word justified implies a few things so that you fully understand it. It firstly means (1) PEACE WITH GOD. Up to this point you were alienated from him because of the stain of your sins. Jesus (God and Man) in One was able to bridge the divide. Before Jesus, we could not ascend to heaven because God is too Holy, nor could God descend to Earth (like he used to walk in the garden) because He is too holy. We could not survive in His presence. That is why Jesus came via the Holy Spirit to the Virgin Mary. He condemned sin in the flesh, so that just as though one man (Adam) all were under the death penalty, now through one man (Jesus) all who believe in Him have eternal life. (2) You are made positionally RIGHTEOUS - meaning justice has been served, and you are in right standing with God. It was Jesus who paid your penalty. This is accessed through faith, and His (Jesus') Righteousness is imputed to us (in our favour). (3) AT this point we are BETHROTHED to Christ. To understand this we need to look to the Jewish wedding customs to gain better insight. When a Man wishes to Marry a Woman, He pays the bride price (in this case it was Jesus' sacrifice upon the cross). We are legally married even though the wedding ceremony hasn't happened yet. The Groom goes away to prepare a place for his bride (Jesus goes to the Father, and prepares a place for us. In His fathers house are many mansions...remember that verse?). During this year that the Groom is away, the Bride is to prepare herself (more on this in sanctification below). Without Justification, there could be no Union with God (God could not dwell in the believer)

The bride is to prepare herself. One of the things that the Groom leaves behind is Gifts for his bethrothed bride. The equivalence is the Gift of the Holy Spirit (and the Gifts of the Spirit). This equates to us being filled with the Holy Spirit and the process of Sanctification begins. This bethrothed bride is not free to run around with any other man, not free to fornicate, not free to commit adultery. (Joseph had initial concerns about Mary during this phase when he found out initially that she was with child). The process of sanctification (separation) is directly comparable to the call to Holiness for the believer. We have been given the Holy Spirit who helps us and empowers us in the call to holiness and separation from the world (worldliness). The OT Law was given but the law of righteousness was pursued by the works of the law instead of faith, and Israel was not able to attain it. We have the fulfillment of the law of righteousness through the body of Christ, such that the walking out of our life in faith is in obedience to God. God called Israels unfaithfullness Adultery in the OT. They ran after other gods, broke the commandments, and pursued their own will. They had not a heart for God. They worshipped Him with their lips but their hearts were far from Him. So too we have the new covenant (Justified by Christ and the Sanctification by the Spirit). Melach, you should think of yourself as this bethrothed bride in waiting. Are you going to run around with other lovers whilst bethrothed to Jesus? How are you as the bride in waiting conducting yourself whilst awaiting your Groom? God is a jealous God, and does not want to share you with another. He is coming for a bride that is pure, spotless and holy. Does that describe you? Its not too late.
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2 Corinthians 11
2 For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!
 
Chris1975 said:
When you first believed in Jesus, you were justified. The word justified implies a few things so that you fully understand it. It firstly means (1) PEACE WITH GOD. Up to this point you were alienated from him because of the stain of your sins. Jesus (God and Man) in One was able to bridge the divide. Before Jesus, we could not ascend to heaven because God is too Holy, nor could God descend to Earth (like he used to walk in the garden) because He is too holy. We could not survive in His presence. That is why Jesus came via the Holy Spirit to the Virgin Mary. He condemned sin in the flesh, so that just as though one man (Adam) all were under the death penalty, now through one man (Jesus) all who believe in Him have eternal life. (2) You are made positionally RIGHTEOUS - meaning justice has been served, and you are in right standing with God. It was Jesus who paid your penalty. This is accessed through faith, and His (Jesus') Righteousness is imputed to us (in our favour). (3) AT this point we are BETHROTHED to Christ. To understand this we need to look to the Jewish wedding customs to gain better insight. When a Man wishes to Marry a Woman, He pays the bride price (in this case it was Jesus' sacrifice upon the cross). We are legally married even though the wedding ceremony hasn't happened yet. The Groom goes away to prepare a place for his bride (Jesus goes to the Father, and prepares a place for us. In His fathers house are many mansions...remember that verse?). During this year that the Groom is away, the Bride is to prepare herself (more on this in sanctification below). Without Justification, there could be no Union with God (God could not dwell in the believer)

The bride is to prepare herself. One of the things that the Groom leaves behind is Gifts for his bethrothed bride. The equivalence is the Gift of the Holy Spirit (and the Gifts of the Spirit). This equates to us being filled with the Holy Spirit and the process of Sanctification begins. This bethrothed bride is not free to run around with any other man, not free to fornicate, not free to commit adultery. (Joseph had initial concerns about Mary during this phase when he found out initially that she was with child). The process of sanctification (separation) is directly comparable to the call to Holiness for the believer. We have been given the Holy Spirit who helps us and empowers us in the call to holiness and separation from the world (worldliness). The OT Law was given but the law of righteousness was pursued by the works of the law instead of faith, and Israel was not able to attain it. We have the fulfillment of the law of righteousness through the body of Christ, such that the walking out of our life in faith is in obedience to God. God called Israels unfaithfullness Adultery in the OT. They ran after other gods, broke the commandments, and pursued their own will. They had not a heart for God. They worshipped Him with their lips but their hearts were far from Him. So too we have the new covenant (Justified by Christ and the Sanctification by the Spirit). Melach, you should think of yourself as this bethrothed bride in waiting. Are you going to run around with other lovers whilst bethrothed to Jesus? How are you as the bride in waiting conducting yourself whilst awaiting your Groom? God is a jealous God, and does not want to share you with another. He is coming for a bride that is pure, spotless and holy. Does that describe you? Its not too late.
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Ephesians 5
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.
 
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Melach said:
thanks for honesty not a copout answer. but now my next question is how is this not salvation by works? where i had to stop that sin or i woudl be found wanting as you said?

you know that we all die as liars gossipers or something. no one is perfect so do we need to repent of all sin.
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I wouldn't call it "salvation by works."

I would call it "acts meet of righteousness by faith." Through which "Spiritual regeneration (restoring). and maturity", will continue in you in even further "grafting!" (becoming Christ formed).

Of course, this will be seen as "works salvationism", by the "Perma-Milk, Insta-Graft" mocking and scoffing crowd/s!
 
mailmandan said:
1 John 1:8 - If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
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Yanno? If people really believed that verse? They would be too busy asking forgiveness for all the mocking and scoffing they do, they wouldn't even have enough time to post up their mocking and scoffing in here!

Just shows ya, or should show many, just how "infiltrated" people claiming to be Christians, have become!

They can't keep sinning this way, and keep expecting God's grace will abound all the more for them!
They just can't!
But, they don't!
 
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NayborBear said:
I wouldn't call it "salvation by works."

I would call it "acts meet of righteousness by faith." Through which "Spiritual regeneration (restoring). and maturity", will continue in you in even further "grafting!" (becoming Christ formed).

Of course, this will be seen as "works salvationism", by the "Perma-Milk, Insta-Graft" mocking and scoffing crowd/s!
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Spiritual regeneration ( born again) occurs as a one time event ...not over time.
 
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NayborBear said:
Look! I'll try and be as nice as I can!

You did not from your mother as a full grown adult, did ya?

Yet? Even the term, "BORN AGAIN", doesn't hint at the "claim" you're making!

But, the "doctrines" of "Perma-Milk, Insta-Graft" do!
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Oh please no worries, I do not need you to be nice... I know the Gospel.

Perfect analogy used by Jesus... .........Being born physically is a one time event ... being born again spiritually (regenerated) a one time event.

Once again a simple concept.
 
RebuildJesussChurch said:
Doctrines about baptismS, you’ll find in Hebrews. And in the New Testament you will find water and Holy Spirit baptism.

So you were baptized in water or with the Holy Spirit or both?
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“There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism …” (Ephesians 4:4-5)

I had water baptism, the outward sign of the inward reality, that did not save me or give me the Holy Spirit

I received the Holy Spirit when I was saved

See that word >> Saved
 
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RebuildJesussChurch said:
Doctrines about baptismS, you’ll find in Hebrews. And in the New Testament you will find water and Holy Spirit baptism.
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No one is denying that "the baptism of John" [involving "water"] is something distinct. :)

Acts 18 -

24 Now a certain Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus, being an eloquent man, mighty in the Scriptures. 25 He was instructed in the way of the Lord. And being fervent in spirit, he was speaking and was teaching earnestly the things concerning Jesus, knowing only the baptism of John. 26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue. But Priscilla and Aquila having heard him, took him to them and expounded the way of God to him more accurately.
 
Melach said:
ok. so in one sense i was saved, because i believed in Jesus. but i wasnt at the same time because my repentance wasnt good enough.

the reason i ask is because it looks like if we take revelation and those other proof-texts that i also used to love to quote literally it would mean there is not a saved person on earth.

thats why i think you would agree with me that its talking about a lifestyle, unrepentant of a sin.

now the question is how much is too much? the bible never says amounts. this is important because if one lie can keep you out of heaven then thats rough. and in verse it says blessed are those who do His commandments, if that means again 100% obedience to all Jesus said then no one is going.

what alternative interpretation is there to these verses? tell me @anyone
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As we get older, and providing we keep our eyes on Jesus and follow Him, you will find "the things of the earth will grow strangely dim." We are still saved during this time of spiritual growth, it is only those who turn their back on the Lord after having known and experienced His love for themselves, who are eternally condemned. Some cults like OSAS will deny this, but it is there in scripture plain as day.
 
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