What is your BEST PROOF for a pre-trib Rapture?

[TheDivineWatermark]

yes i said its a miracle. what do you mean further thought what more is there to think

well, I dunno, prolly coz o' what else i'd said in that post:

--[I believe there are two other connections, but can't quote them off the top of my head...]

...but it's fine if you don't wanna ponder that too...

I know I myself get pretty busy doin stuff

 

[Melach]

well, I dunno, prolly coz o' what else i'd said in that post:



...but it's fine if you don't wanna ponder that too...

I know I myself get pretty busy doin stuff

why cant you just tell me what those two other connections are. please.

 

[TooFastTurtle]

Right. The wedding FEAST/SUPPER.

Even in Rev19, "the MARRIAGE" itself [v.7] IS DISTINCT FROM "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" of the Lamb [v.9].

The "Bride/Wife [singular]" is NOT the "INVITED guests [plural]".

In the gospels, in "the wedding feast/supper[/festivities]" parables, no "bride/wife" is being spoke of there.

He is not coming to MARRY "10 Virgins" [nor even FIVE]! These are who will "go in with [G3326 -accompanying] Him to the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" (the earthly MK age!) [note: NOT the "with [G4862 - UNION-with/IDENTIFICATION-with]" used of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (the 'ONE BODY')]




So, "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" is also what we see in the picture of when Jesus attended "the wedding feast in Cana" [Jn2] (along with the many other GUESTS of that particular celebration). This was distinct from "the union of that couple" (already-wed).

More proof for the pre-trib Rapture.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I truly don't understand what the disconnect is here. Yes there is no longer an earthly physical temple. Yay we agree and understand each other. Why is it so hard to understand that in the light of this truth that the AoD has to have happened while Gods temple WAS ON EARTH, otherwise it's too late and Jesus was wrong.

Let me start with this part (bold/underlined and enlarged)... I had meant to come back and elaborate on the "desolate" aspect (the way I had made my post) but I got sidetracked with other things (special events and houseguests and so forth, where I'm at)... SO...

we are not ENTIRELY in agreement (tho it appears to you we are) and that is because...

while, yes, I pointed out the verse re: "your house is left to you desolate"... but NOT that I'm saying this is "the abomination [singular] of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet" (the "singular" [of "abomination"] only used TWICE in Daniel, 11:31 and 12:11); but that this "fits" instead in the chronology of the use of the OTHER word ("desolationS") in the "PLURAL" in Dan9:26 [recall, I'd said that Dan9:25-27 is in chronological/sequential order, so...

this "desolationS are determined/decreed"--in association with what the other thing is referring to IN THAT VERSE [v.26] "the people OF the prince that shall come [note: not "the prince that shall come" himself! but the people OF him] SHALL DESTROY THE CITY and THE SANCTUARY... " then it says, "...desolaTIONS [PLURAL] are determined/decreed" (THIS is where the 70ad events +forward factor in, INCLUDING "your house is left to you desolate," as ONE of those plural things... but is NOT "the abomination [singular; Dan11:31,12:11<--tied to a specific "timing" thing!] of desolation [SINGULAR]"... No, the 70ad circumstances tie into the 9:26 plural desolationS as one of THOSE [keeping in mind that that section is SEQUENTIAL])]

Hope you can track with my explanation.

 

[DeighAnn]

One cannot spiritualize prophecy and make it mean anything! This is what false prophets do!

There are spiritual things and natural things, no doubt! But once a person starts spiritualizing prophecy it is no longer based on any truth given by the Holy Spirit!

Reading with Spiritual Eyes is to be led by the spirit in the reading, as opposed to led by the flesh and the worldly view of things. Not to spiritiualize prophecy what ever that means.

 

[Absolutely]

More proof for the pre-trib Rapture.

Yep
The rapture is the gathering of the bride.

Postribs miss the main and central purpose of the event.

I have never seen them expand that dynamic.
Only their many attempts at deflecting it.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Let me start with this part (bold/underlined and enlarged)... I had meant to come back and elaborate on the "desolate" aspect (the way I had made my post) but I got sidetracked with other things (special events and houseguests and so forth, where I'm at)... SO...

we are not ENTIRELY in agreement (tho it appears to you we are) and that is because...

while, yes, I pointed out the verse re: "your house is left to you desolate"... but NOT that I'm saying this is "the abomination [singular] of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet" (the "singular" [of "abomination"] only used TWICE in Daniel, 11:31 and 12:11); but that this "fits" instead in the chronology of the use of the OTHER word ("desolationS") in the "PLURAL" in Dan9:26 [recall, I'd said that Dan9:25-27 is in chronological/sequential order, so...

this "desolationS are determined/decreed"--in association with what the other thing is referring to IN THAT VERSE [v.26] "the people OF the prince that shall come [note: not "the prince that shall come" himself! but the people OF him] SHALL DESTROY THE CITY and THE SANCTUARY... " then it says, "...desolaTIONS [PLURAL] are determined/decreed" (THIS is where the 70ad events +forward factor in, INCLUDING "your house is left to you desolate," as ONE of those plural things... but is NOT "the abomination [singular; Dan11:31,12:11<--tied to a specific "timing" thing!] of desolation [SINGULAR]"...

No, the 70ad circumstances tie into the 9:26 plural desolationS as one of THOSE [keeping in mind that that section is SEQUENTIAL])]

Hope you can track with my explanation.

So... the above explanation ^ is with regard to what you'd said here, especially:

Jimbone: If you truly believe what you literally just wrote then you cannot believe in a coming AoD, the time when that even could have happen is over.

Nope.

[to the readers: see my explanation above (at top, in the quoted sections)]

 

[DeighAnn]

Not only so now but also we glory in tribulations knowing that tribulation, perseverance produces. And perseverance, character and character, hope. And hope not does make us ashamed because the love of God has been poured out into the hearts of us through the Spirit Holy, the One having been given to us.

Yet indeed Christ being of us without strength, still according to the right time, for the ungodly died. Rarely indeed for a righteous man anyone will die on behalf of, though the good man, perhaps someone even would dare to die.

 

[Jimbone]

Let me start with this part (bold/underlined and enlarged)... I had meant to come back and elaborate on the "desolate" aspect (the way I had made my post) but I got sidetracked with other things (special events and houseguests and so forth, where I'm at)... SO...

we are not ENTIRELY in agreement (tho it appears to you we are) and that is because...

while, yes, I pointed out the verse re: "your house is left to you desolate"... but NOT that I'm saying this is "the abomination [singular] of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet" (the "singular" [of "abomination"] only used TWICE in Daniel, 11:31 and 12:11); but that this "fits" instead in the chronology of the use of the OTHER word ("desolationS") in the "PLURAL" in Dan9:26 [recall, I'd said that Dan9:25-27 is in chronological/sequential order, so...

this "desolationS are determined/decreed"--in association with what the other thing is referring to IN THAT VERSE [v.26] "the people OF the prince that shall come [note: not "the prince that shall come" himself! but the people OF him] SHALL DESTROY THE CITY and THE SANCTUARY... " then it says, "...desolaTIONS [PLURAL] are determined/decreed" (THIS is where the 70ad events +forward factor in, INCLUDING "your house is left to you desolate," as ONE of those plural things... but is NOT "the abomination [singular; Dan11:31,12:11<--tied to a specific "timing" thing!] of desolation [SINGULAR]"... No, the 70ad circumstances tie into the 9:26 plural desolationS as one of THOSE [keeping in mind that that section is SEQUENTIAL])]

Hope you can track with my explanation.

The verse your referencing, Luke 13, the one you're talking about right here, the "your house is left to you desolate" verse you're talking about here has nothing to do with the temple or the AoD. So I don't know why you are using it like it is. I think you are completely wrong in what you're trying to make it say here. The verse isn't talking about the subject your forcing in into. I understand what you're saying it means, I just completely disagree with your interpretation on the verse, that to me, leads to an incoherent, inconsistent, nonsensical, view that represents everything God is not, and really is nothing more than assertion that can only be supported by ripping verses out of context and trying to make them mean something they just don't mean, to support the view you brought with you. I mean I guess there isn't much further this conversation can go from here. We just fundamentally disagree on what the text means. I could follow and understand what you're saying here, but just think you've just built everything you believe on what you were taught by everyone you love and have respected in this field you whole life and can't for 1 second back up to look at the whole to see how ridiculous this view truly is. The futurist view is truly a silly idea that has just gained too much footing in modern times in a sleepy church. The church is awake now and you will see His power will be made manifest these coming years. Watch and be amazed while His glory is openly and loudly proclaimed boldly and without shame like we've never seen in our life times. Praise the name of our King, that awesome name of Jesus.

Thank you for the conversation and I appreciate your time and questions and truly pray in Jesus name that He continue to draw you into Himself and blesses your whole family. Amen.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Okay, all I'm saying is that the phrase "desolationS are determined/decreed" (Dan9:26 [see the 70ad events IN THIS VERSE]) is NOT the passage Jesus was POINTING TO when He said "the abomination [singular] of desolation SPOKEN OF BY DANIEL the prophet" which "SINGULAR" use of "abomination" is in Dan11:31 and 12:11 ONLY

(and the latter of these two, in connection with specific-day-amounts that, at the END of which, "Daniel will STAND in [his] LOT" [be resurrected to stand again on the earth]);

"the abomination [singular] of desolation" is only a part of the "desolationS [plural] are determined/decreed," but is not in the v.26 "70ad" section of the chronology (which was only one aspect of the PLURAL "desolationS," see... just like the far-future "ONE Week's" [v.27] abominationS [plural]" and the "desolate" [word] thing, there [singular too], see).


The main thing I would ask the reader to consider, is that the prophecy in Dan9:27-27 is SEQUENTIAL (so parts of v.26 (26b) are about the 70ad events, where "desolationS" are determined/decreed (but this is not "the abomination [SINGULAR] of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet" [singularly]... the SINGULAR use of that word is only found in 11:31 and 12:11 [<--this one with a specific TIME-ELEMENT attached with it])

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ EDIT: meant "in Daniel 9:25-27 is SEQUENTIAL"

 

[DeighAnn]

. Yes there is no longer an earthly physical temple.

Maybe I missed where it said satan had to be in a temple made with the hands. Please tell me where to find it and I will go study it.

 

[iamsoandso]

I will destroy the temple this, the one made with hands, and in three days another, not made with hands, I will build.

There is the "temple" you all are searching for.

Indeed the Body of Christ is the temple and Gods spirit dwells in it. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+3:16-17&version=KJV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+6:15-20&version=KJV the thing about this though is that in ad70 that temple in Jerusalem received a deadly wound and was in the pit.

Then two who looked like a lamb but spake as dragons said "let us make an image of the beast that was,was not...ect." and set it back up https://biblehub.com/daniel/3-1.htm ,,, https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+13&version=KJV (see Rev 13:11-18) and some see it as nothing because they think it is past while others endorse it with their support.

Now you are the Temple of God and any temple made by the hands of man in the earth is an abomination and blaspheme to his name and tabernacle https://biblehub.com/revelation/13-6.htm so be very careful with what man set up in 1948 and when they do build a temple remember that "you are the temple of God and he dwells in you" and any other is an image set up in a place where it ought not be. Again that man of sin will come in the one they will build but it will never be the temple of God which you are.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Now you are the Temple of God and any temple made by the hands of man in the earth is an abomination and blaspheme to his name and tabernacle https://biblehub.com/revelation/13-6.htm so be very careful with what man set up in 1948 and when they do build a temple remember that "you are the temple of God and he dwells in you" and any other is an image set up in a place where it ought not be. Again that man of sin will come in the one they will build but it will never be the temple of God which you are.

Okay... so my question to you, in view of what you have written in your post, is:

the thing that "man of sin will come in the one they will build" (as you put it), does Scripture itself call that "the temple of God" (2Th2:4 [/Rev11:1]--call/name/label THAT "the temple of God")? or am I misreading you altogether??

 

[DeighAnn]

Indeed the Body of Christ is the temple and Gods spirit dwells in it. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+3:16-17&version=KJV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+6:15-20&version=KJV the thing about this though is that in ad70 that temple in Jerusalem received a deadly wound and was in the pit.

Then two who looked like a lamb but spake as dragons said "let us make an image of the beast that was,was not...ect." and set it back up https://biblehub.com/daniel/3-1.htm ,,, https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+13&version=KJV (see Rev 13:11-18) and some see it as nothing because they think it is past while others endorse it with their support.

Now you are the Temple of God and any temple made by the hands of man in the earth is an abomination and blaspheme to his name and tabernacle https://biblehub.com/revelation/13-6.htm so be very careful with what man set up in 1948 and when they do build a temple remember that "you are the temple of God and he dwells in you" and any other is an image set up in a place where it ought not be. Again that man of sin will come in the one they will build but it will never be the temple of God which you are.

Thank you. And I do watch for both the good and bad figs.

 

[iamsoandso]

Okay... so my question to you, in view of what you have written in your post, is:

the thing that "man of sin will come in the one they will build" (as you put it), does Scripture itself call that "the temple of God" (2Th2:4 [/Rev11:1]--call/name/label THAT "the temple of God")? or am I misreading you altogether??

In Scripture they will see Jesus no more until they say https://biblehub.com/matthew/23-39.htm but Jesus also told them that https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+5:43&version=KJV so first the one who comes in his own name (Revelation 13:11-18) comes and they receive him as Jesus stated.

Then they say blessed is he that comes in the name of the Lord(got victory over the number and image) and They will see Jesus and the Body of Christ(the temple/tabernacle of God) again descending down to the earth. The kingdom that the man of sin rises in rises first and then Jesus destroys it in the brightness of his coming.

 

[bud62]

GOD will protect HIS people just like in Egypt . The plagues didn't harm HIS people . or come close .

I guess I'm not really understanding what .For GOD says that HIS commandments are forever , NOT one jot or one title will pass till heaven & earth pass away GOD bless as HE sees fit

 

[garee]

Okay, all I'm saying is that the phrase "desolationS are determined/decreed" (Dan9:26 [see the 70ad events IN THIS VERSE]) is NOT the passage Jesus was POINTING TO when He said "the abomination [singular] of desolation SPOKEN OF BY DANIEL the prophet" which "SINGULAR" use of "abomination" is in Dan11:31 and 12:11 ONLY

(and the latter of these two, in connection with specific-day-amounts that, at the END of which, "Daniel will STAND in [his] LOT" [be resurrected to stand again on the earth]);

"the abomination [singular] of desolation" is only a part of the "desolationS [plural] are determined/decreed," but is not in the v.26 "70ad" section of the chronology (which was only one aspect of the PLURAL "desolationS," see... just like the far-future "ONE Week's" [v.27] abominationS [plural]" and the "desolate" [word] thing, there [singular too], see).


The main thing I would ask the reader to consider, is that the prophecy in Dan9:27-27 is SEQUENTIAL (so parts of v.26 (26b) are about the 70ad events, where "desolationS" are determined/decreed (but this is not "the abomination [SINGULAR] of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet" [singularly]... the SINGULAR use of that word is only found in 11:31 and 12:11 [<--this one with a specific TIME-ELEMENT attached with it])

The abomination of desolation is anytime in the Bible. It speaks of placing the temporal things seen (the created) in the holy unseen place of God. When it appears does not change what it is .The usurping authority of the father of lies.

Jesus was accused of standing in the Holy place of God as good master .He gave glory to our invisible God not seen the eternal . Who is not a man as us.

Matthew 19:15-17 King James Version (KJV And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the

He did not violate the wrath of God by saying created things seen are greater than the things not sen .the things of faith .

Romans1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature (the temporal seen) more than the Creator,(the eternal not seen....faith) who is blessed for ever. Amen.

The proper prescription must be applied if we are to search for the spiritual understanding hid from the lost in parables

2 Corinthians 4:18While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Walk by faith and the need of looking for a fleshly God as a creation disappears. Only God not seen is good.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

In Scripture they will see Jesus no more until they say https://biblehub.com/matthew/23-39.htm but Jesus also told them that https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+5:43&version=KJV so first the one who comes in his own name (Revelation 13:11-18) comes and they receive him as Jesus stated.

Then they say blessed is he that comes in the name of the Lord(got victory over the number and image) and They will see Jesus and the Body of Christ(the temple/tabernacle of God) again descending down to the earth. The kingdom that the man of sin rises in rises first and then Jesus destroys it in the brightness of his coming.

I "get" all that.

I'm just asking you...

the THING that "man of sin will come in the one they will build" (as you put it), does Scripture itself call that "the temple of God" (2Th2:4 [/Rev11:1]--call/name/label THAT "the temple of God")? Yes or no? according to your viewpoint??

Does Scripture itself call/name/label it that, or not? (I'm not asking whether the THING is "good or bad" or whatever, but does SCRIPTURE call it "the temple of God"??)

 

[iamsoandso]

I "get" all that.

I'm just asking you...

the THING that "man of sin will come in the one they will build" (as you put it), does Scripture itself call that "the temple of God" (2Th2:4 [/Rev11:1]--call/name/label THAT "the temple of God")? Yes or no? according to your viewpoint??

Does Scripture itself call/name/label it that, or not? (I'm not asking whether the THING is "good or bad" or whatever, but does SCRIPTURE call it "the temple of God"??)

The temple being measured in Revelation 11:1 is https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+11:19&version=KJV there is no temple other than the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb. https://biblehub.com/revelation/21-22.htm

You are focused on the word "the" do you not realize that if you are "the" temple of God and that if you are raptured away prior to this and Gods Temple is no longer here then it cannot be polluted by that man of sin? Then if you are "the" Temple of God you must be here to be polluted.