Not By Works

[Chris1975]

so, we are back to square one- you are pushing sinless perfectionism, just as I said, just as you denied.

to be such bold Bible thumper, you sure have a problem with honesty.

Romans 6
19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness [f]for holiness.

- This is all part and parcel of believing in Jesus Christ. You cannot say you believe in Jesus (the Word) and still reject the Word.

 

[Judges1318]

Not by me.

That's good.

But why did you omit the parts about the necessary works being Christ’s works. That was the best part of the post? 😉

I did not quote that part. It was not included in what I said. See post #120,904.

 

[RebuildJesussChurch]

It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!
New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Yes, we have been enlightened, have tasted the heavenly gift, have shared in the Holy Spirit, have tasted the goodness of the Word of God and the powers of the age to come, by His grace. Yet we know that if we fall away it would be impossible to be brought back to repentance because to our loss we would be crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to public disgrace. Hebrews 6:4-6

We have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ! But the truth is that if we are entangled in it again and overcome we would be worse off at the end than we were at the beginning. It would have been better for us not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and then to have turned our backs on the sacred command that was passed on to us. Of us the proverbs would be true: "A dog returns to its vomit," and, "A sow after washing returns to her wallowing in the mud." 2 Peter 2:20-22

We cannot treat as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified us and outrage the Spirit of grace. Hebrews 10:29. He has commanded us to abide. Amen. Jesus is the Truth.

 

[JohnW34]

Romans 6
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as [d]instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

And more...

You hate these scriptures. Because you love your sin.
If you loved these scriptures you wouldn't be kicking against them.

Rom 6:17-18
But thanks be to God that though you were slaves to sin, you obeyed from the heart that pattern of teaching you were entrusted to,
and having been freed from sin, you became enslaved to righteousness.

This verse hits me about promise and faith. Promise that others have experienced freedom from sin, faith to know Jesus can and does deliver this in our lives today.

We have become "enslaved to righteousness" Amen

 

[Chris1975]

Romans 6
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit [g]to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the [h]gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

If you hate these words you are not a believer. Its as simple as that. This is the Word (whom you profess to follow).

 

[PS]

God Himself has told me I am His child , do me a favour and read Romans 8:16...

I see, so you do not do a study of all the scriptures.

That is typical of the cults.

 

[Judges1318]

What the Galatians did was add things to Christ. Syncretism.

Which Paul said made Christ of no effect to them.

 

[JohnW34]

Romans 6
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit [g]to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the [h]gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

If you hate these words you are not a believer. Its as simple as that. This is the Word (whom you profess to follow).

Thank you for these verses.

Rom 6:22 NKJV
But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

"Set free from sin" - amen, thank you Jesus
"Slaves to God" - our Lord who we obey
"Fruit" - "holiness" - our cleansing and position
"Everlasting life" - our reward, our gift

How clear scripture is as the Holy Spirit brings light and life to it.

 

[Melach]

Jesus does not loose anyone.. and I was not speaking to this really.. I was only showing them how nonsensical and irrational their argument is .. our belief is not what keeps Jesus faithful... that is essentially what they are stating and arguing.

ah okay thanks my misunderstanding sorry.

 

[Judges1318]

Luke 13
23 Then one said to Him, “Lord, are there few who are saved?”

And He said to them, 24 “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know you, where you are from,’ 26 then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.’ 27 But He will say, ‘I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.’

The deception in the church is deep.
Many believe the ones who are working iniquity in the passage are the ones doing righteous works.

 

[Judges1318]

so, do not let these lying work salvationists deceive by trying to paint a picture that struggling with sin will cause you to " lose your salvation.

Unbelief is what will cause you to lose your salvation.
The warning of scripture is to not let sin deceive you into hardening your heart in unbelief.

 

[mailmandan]

I'm used to hearing works-salvationists quote Romans 6:16 in an effort to support salvation by works, but apparently, sinless perfectionists also use it in an effort to support sinless perfection.

Works-salvationists typically ignore "servants of obedience unto righteousness" in Romans 6:16 and simply stress "obedience unto righteousness" as if works of obedience which "follow saving faith in Christ" are "unto righteousness," works righteousness.

There is a contrast here between servants/slaves. There are only two kinds of servants/slaves in this world, in the spiritual sense; servants/slaves of sin unto death, or servants/slaves of obedience unto righteousness. When we place our faith exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation/believe the gospel by trusting in His finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of our salvation, we then become "servants of obedience unto righteousness."

Being slaves of sin is put in the past tense. Paul goes on in Romans 6:18 - "You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness."

Notice in Romans 10:10 - For with the heart one believes unto righteousness..

Notice in Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith (not works) is accounted for righteousness.

 

[Melach]

"the evidence of things not seen" - Hebrews 11:1

We are saved through the evidence of things not seen, if you believe in that evidence. Most people don't believe in the evidence of things not seen that God has shown them by the Holy Spirit and reject it, calling Him a liar. A few do believe it and are saved as a result.

we are saved by faith. the end.

 

[Melach]

wilkersonvideo

lets listen to david wilkerson predict how in the 2000 all christian tv channels will be out of business and there are tanks in the streets of USA (new york specifically)

oh wait didnt happen. do you believe in the partial pre-trib rapture too chris?

 

[Judges1318]

NY will fall. It is Mystery Babylon.
The US will fall (Israel's main powerful Ally), before the Axis moves in on Israel.
Nobody will take the glory for Israel's deliverance but God Himself, when Jesus returns. Zechariah 14.

I'm believing this more and more as time goes by.
America reminds me of Israel who thought they were God's people and so God was going to deliver them, but because of their sin God was actually destroying them and letting their enemies overtake them. But they had lots of prophets to tell them what they wanted to hear about peace and deliverance.

 

[Judges1318]

we are saved by faith. the end.

Did I say something different?

 

[Chris1975]

Thank you for these verses.

Rom 6:22 NKJV
But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

"Set free from sin" - amen, thank you Jesus
"Slaves to God" - our Lord who we obey
"Fruit" - "holiness" - our cleansing and position
"Everlasting life" - our reward, our gift

How clear scripture is as the Holy Spirit brings light and life to it.

Instead of allowing scripture to conform them, they try to conform scripture to their own beliefs. Not realising that one day they will face the Word Himself.

 

[bud62]

We can't be saved by our works or keeping the commandments BECAUSE we have sinned . AND the wages of sin is death .
So JESUS LOVED US & died in our place .

Can you rephrase so it makes sense.

I don't fell that I'm anywhere near perfect . But GOD is STIL WORKING on me that I may be perfect . GOD BLESS AS HE SEES FIT.

 

[bud62]

Did I say something different?

Satan believe & he want be saved . & can't be .

 

[TooFastTurtle]

Again

works are not necessary, they are natural

saying they are necessary makes them a requirment for salvation. Makes it salvation by works.

Don’t be fooled by Ralphie here, he is promoting works as amens of maintaining salvation, not as the natural result of entrusting our lives to Christ and learning to trust him in areas of our life. Ie, true saving faith not just mere belief.

This was my main problem in being deceived into saving myself. It is a subtle difference, and one might think it does not even matter but to God it does matter because He will not share His glory with anyone. Don't get me wrong, I still get that warm fuzzy feeling inside if I help someone as I am sure all of you do too, but that is not for salvation purposes.