Apostasy 101

[Grandpa]

>the new covenant has conditions too.

Yes it does.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Are you meeting ALL of them?

Or do you require a little help?

 

[garee]

The antichrist is not a man. We walk by the unseen eternal. He as a lying spirit has no form. He uses men or creatures seen the temporal to destroy the eternal gospel not seen. We can see the son of perdition working in Peter. Peter was forgiven of blasphemy against the Son of man. Today that would not be possible

The division is between the temporal thing of men seen and the eternal things of God not seen (faith) 2 Corinthians 4:18

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.Mathew 16:22-23

Satan the son of perdition was rebuked. Peter was forgiven

Christians walk by faith. Satan the spirit of the antichrist would have some look for him as a sign and wonder. Satan is the son of perdition .

The falling away are the same that look to edify themselves as some outward work they did offer it toward God, as again some sort of confirmation. I got wet or made a noise or fell backawrd . Sign and wonders seekers. No sign is given

Hebrews 6 King James Version (KJV) Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

They that walk by sight fall away crucify the lord Jesus over and over every time they do a work . Get wet, make a noise, fall backward ETC.

 

[preacher4truth]

The very FACT that there are verses that say you can be deceived negates the possibility that "they never really were saved". The rest is just smoke and mirrors to support a "doctrine" that contains a truth.

Where does the bible state "Jesus doesn't save some who come to him"? He told us whomsoever will. So He is doing/did his part. And if there is a "great falling away" there must have been "a great coming to".

The book is written to and for those who have faith. Not those who don't.

There we have it folks, Jesus did his part, so, you're partly saved. The rest is up to you, and these neo-judaizers will now tell you what rules you must keep and add to the finished work of Christ to do your part to finish what Christ has only partially done. This is blasphemous and is a false gospel. Note Galatians and reject these false teachers.

 

[DeighAnn]

It is suspect that some indeed wish for others to lose salvation, such are obsessed over this and spend their lives assisting Christ to save them, wishing to gain others to join them in their endeavor, which is in itself a false understanding of the true Gospel and a false Gospel at the same time.

The deceiver is coming and many have been taught that they are saved forever, no matter what, so why worry? But God has a plan and if you are not aware of what is coming, you will be deceived. It is the EXACT opposite of wanting others to lose salvation. It is sending out a warning that "believing in God doesn't make you Teflon" as far as the coming deception is concerned.

 

[Chris1975]

for those of you are not used to interacting with this person, she thinks the Law of Moses is divided into parts, with some in effect and some not, and that Christ followers have to keep the Sabbath to be saved.

just f.y.i..

Like some of these laws?

Romans 13
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” [b]“You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

 

[DeighAnn]

There we have it folks, Jesus did his part, so, you're partly saved. The rest is up to you, and these neo-judaizers will now tell you what rules you must keep and add to the finished work of Christ to do your part to finish what Christ has only partially done. This is blasphemous and is a false gospel. Note Galatians and reject these false teachers.

What do you mean by "partly saved"? Jesus 100% accomplished the saving part. You just seem to believe that God can be mocked. You think when you stand in judgment of YOUR LIFE and your choices that Jesus is going to be judging Himself and what He did? That will be interesting. You don't think that you have to walk holy and righteous on your own? You think you hold no responsibility for your life? That isn't what the Word says.

 

[Chris1975]

Yes it does.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Are you meeting ALL of them?

Or do you require a little help?

So you disagree with Matthew 5v48 then? You seem to imply so...

 

[DeighAnn]

The antichrist is not a man.

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Isaiah 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Isaiah 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms

 

[Chris1975]

Like some of these laws?

Romans 13
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” [b]“You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

So those to those anti holiness types:
If you Murder (one of he 10 commandments), are you loving your neighbour?
If you Commit Adultery (one of the 10 commandments), are you loving your neighbour?
If you Steal (one of the 10 commandments), are you loving your neighbour?
If you bear false witness (one of the 10 commandments), are you loving your neighbour?
If you covet (one of the 10n commandments), are you loving your neighbour?

John 13
34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

 

[Chris1975]

The antichrist is not a man. We walk by the unseen eternal. He as a lying spirit has no form. He uses men or creatures seen the temporal to destroy the eternal gospel not seen. We can see the son of perdition working in Peter. Peter was forgiven of blasphemy against the Son of man. Today that would not be possible

The division is between the temporal thing of men seen and the eternal things of God not seen (faith) 2 Corinthians 4:18

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.Mathew 16:22-23

Satan the son of perdition was rebuked. Peter was forgiven

Christians walk by faith. Satan the spirit of the antichrist would have some look for him as a sign and wonder. Satan is the son of perdition .

The falling away are the same that look to edify themselves as some outward work they did offer it toward God, as again some sort of confirmation. I got wet or made a noise or fell backawrd . Sign and wonders seekers. No sign is given

Hebrews 6 King James Version (KJV) Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

They that walk by sight fall away crucify the lord Jesus over and over every time they do a work . Get wet, make a noise, fall backward ETC.

The Antichrist is very much a man. And he will appear on the global world stage.

 

[gb9]

The Antichrist is very much a man. And he will appear on the global world stage.

by the way, I answered your question you asked in the " not by works " thread.

one has to continue to believe.

now, you owe me an answer-
do you accept the definition of " believe"?? Y/N

 

[Chris1975]

by the way, I answered your question you asked in the " not by works " thread.

one has to continue to believe.

now, you owe me an answer-
do you accept the definition of " believe"?? Y/N

My original question was not directed at you. Happy that you answer it anyway.

 

[Chris1975]

by the way, I answered your question you asked in the " not by works " thread.

one has to continue to believe.

now, you owe me an answer-
do you accept the definition of " believe"?? Y/N

What definition are you referring to?

 

[JohnW34]

There we have it folks, Jesus did his part, so, you're partly saved. The rest is up to you, and these neo-judaizers will now tell you what rules you must keep and add to the finished work of Christ to do your part to finish what Christ has only partially done. This is blasphemous and is a false gospel. Note Galatians and reject these false teachers.

Do you agree Gods people are saved, from before the beginning of time?

Rev 13:8
All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.

2 Cor 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!

If our birth in Christ is a true planted seed, eternal, imperishable, then the fruit will come and show.
What do we say of those who do not show this fruit?

1 John 4:20
If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.

As believers, with so many who claim so much, is not fruit our only hope to distinguish between many positions?
Can we go wrong if Jesus lives within us?

 

[gb9]

What definition are you referring to?

all right. this is a serious matter, and I am not going to play silly games about it, so this will be the last time I give you the definition of " believe"

the definition of the greek word , used in the language of the N.T. is to entrust , to have confidence in, to think to be true.

that is what it is to BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ.

do you agree with this or not? Y/N

 

[DeighAnn]

Revelation 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Revelation 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

Who are we told Satan is coming to persecute? And who is going to be deceived?

And why is the once you are saved you are Teflon doctrine almost as bad as the pre satan arrival fly you away one?

BECAUSE they both play into the hands of the devil by making you BELIEVE there isn't any more that you need to do or be aware of. They lull you into a false sense of security. You don't see the troubling times a coming. You don't THINK or BELIEVE you and your eternal soul have ANYTHING else to do.

Those who are TAUGHT that they COULD POSSIBLY lose what they have been given, STRIVE to find all the rest of the information "pertinent" to it. And what they find is this information given to

Paul, who was sent to the Gentiles (and I only say that because for some reason they seem to want to hold on to that status)

Ephesians 6:5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

Ephesians 6:6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;

Ephesians 6:7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men

Ephesians 6:8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.

Ephesians 6:9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven neither is there respect of persons with him.

Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Ephesians 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.


(ALMOST SOUNDS LIKE AND I QUOTE "PREACHER4TRUTH" HERE The rest is up to you, and these neo-judaizers will now tell you what rules you must keep and add to the finished work of Christ to do your part to finish what Christ has only partially done. This is blasphemous and is a false gospel. Note Galatians and reject these false teachers.


Ephesians 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

Ephesians 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace

Ephesians 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Ephesians 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

Ephesians 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

Ephesians 6:20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

 

[Chris1975]

all right. this is a serious matter, and I am not going to play silly games about it, so this will be the last time I give you the definition of " believe"

the definition of the greek word , used in the language of the N.T. is to entrust , to have confidence in, to think to be true.

that is what it is to BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ.

do you agree with this or not? Y/N

Y

 

[mailmandan]

Have you tested your philosophy out?

Have you departed from the faith? Did you ever have faith to begin with, or is it just an intellectual philosophy of the existence of God?

I tested my faith out. I am not able to forget what Christ has done for me.

It's unfathomable for me to imagine departing from the faith. Where else am I going to go? Jesus has the words of eternal life. Thanks to the new birth (and not my personal will power) my faith is too engrained in me and I'm too convinced to ever want to depart from the faith. In regards to 1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

Those in the NOSAS camp seem to believe "depart from the faith" means that born again believers/Christians depart from saving faith in Christ and lose their salvation. The words "the faith" (Greek tês pisteôs) in this context means the Christian faith/apostolic body of doctrines. Some who are in a state of professing adherence to the Christian faith/apostolic body of doctrines, nevertheless will in both doctrine and practice depart from it, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, which demonstrates that their faith was never firmly rooted and established to begin with.

Some "nominal" Christians will abandon the Christian faith/apostolic body of doctrines for false religions and cults, which does not prove they were previously born again. In 1 John 2:19, we read - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

I believe the beginning of such a major departing from the Christian faith/apostolic body of doctrines was evidenced as the Roman Catholic church came into power in the early 4th century. The Roman Catholic church forbids it's clergy to marry. The RCC has other demonic doctrines such as transubstantiation, purgatory, indulgences, Mary's perpetual virginity, works gospel etc..

 

[Grandpa]

So you disagree with Matthew 5v48 then? You seem to imply so...

Disagree?

Do you have any inkling of what that verse is telling you about your "requirements"???

 

[Chris1975]

Disagree?

Do you have any inkling of what that verse is telling you about your "requirements"???

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/understanding-the-new-covenant.152420/