Not By Works

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dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#120,622
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#120,622
GracethroughfaithinChrist said:
View attachment 209455
Ezekiel 38
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AMEN Brother and an in depth study of Jeremiah 50-51 along with the blended aspect of 3 chapters in Isaiah, Daniel, Habakkuk, Ezekiel and the 1st HINT in Psalm 137 along with Revelation, reveals the destruction of the HINDERMOST of the NATIONS, the LADY of the KINGDOM which has 80 characteristics and a 10.5 billion to 1 which nation it is when the MATH is done.

A coalition of the ABOVE THREE is what BRINGS the HAMMER of the whole earth to HER KNEES, a NATION with NO FEAR of INVASION is decimated in ONE hour and then actively invaded and EVER one found is thrust through with weapons that causes the people to EXPLODE into fragments and pieces....the INITIAL strike comes from...

THENCE and from the NORTH from between the BLACK AND CASPIAN seas.....and the destruction of HER YOUNG MEN OF WAR that remain in the BASES and forbear to fight is described as thus...

FROM under the SHADOW of a cloud
WITH the tempest of a STORM
that causes the GROUND to undulate and quake
Is heard AROUND the world
BURNS cities with fire and makes them UNINHABITABLE
KILLS ALL her young men of war in 1 HOUR

AND NONE of HER LOVERS (allies) HELP due to the FEAR of her TORMENT

Amazing how many adamantly oppose these truths and argue against these facts without actually spending the YEARS it takes to dig all of this out and study all the VERBIAGE and the characteristics of the nation described........
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#120,631
#120,631
Chris1975 said:
Please go ahead and define it according to scripture....
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I believe we have had this conversation may times... sigh :(

Let me put it to you this way...

If what someone is "believing" in Jesus for is not "guaranteed eternal security" then what is the purpose of their faith? Are they saved by grace after all that they can do? Is perseverance in faithfulness and obedience required? What are they believing in Christ for? If it is not for eternal security than WHAT KIND OF SALVATION IS IT?

Christ asks us to believe something very specific about Him: that He guarantees one's eternal salvation when they take Him at His word concerning such.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#120,632
#120,632
EleventhHour said:
This is not the definition of belief/faith according to scripture.
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And think on this since you really have yet to grasp scriptural truth.....

If someone is believing in Christ for anything else but "eternal security", what exactly are they believing in Him for?

.....A may-be entrance into the kingdom if they persevere in obedience?

........A hope-so, cross your fingers, tap your toes and wish upon a falling star conditional salvation?

And what are the conditional aspects?

1) the fickleness of the Savior,
or 2) the works of the 'believer'

Take your choice both are wrong according to scripture.
 
Melach

Melach

Well-known member
#120,633
Mar 28, 2019
2,057
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#120,633
Chris1975 said:
A Not Often quoted part of scripture. But look at the gems.

For those who say obedience is not a requirement under the NT.

Romans 13
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” [b]“You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

For those who say we no longer heed or uphold the commandments, Jesus says LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOUR AS YOURSELF.

Romans 3v31
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
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remember that looking with lust is also adultery. hate in heart. sins go deeper than just actions
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#120,635
#120,635
EleventhHour said:
Boy... do they like to twist and mangle... once Jesus lives in us He never departs ... it is not my brain power/will that keeps Him there... they create a very false Saviour and Lord
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I am going to place that on ignore. It’s not worthy it
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#120,636
#120,636
Chris1975 said:
Maybe we could have some here explain that scripture then.....
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And one more thing...

Saving faith in Christ is not ambiguous, it has specific content.
What we are to trust Christ for is...
......the guaranteed present possession of eternal life.

So where does that leave you I wonder?
 
Chris1975

Chris1975

Senior Member
#120,637
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
517
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#120,637
EleventhHour said:
I believe we have had this conversation may times... sigh :(

Let me put it to you this way...

If what someone is "believing" in Jesus for is not "guaranteed eternal security" then what is the purpose of their faith? Are they saved by grace after all that they can do? Is perseverance in faithfulness and obedience required? What are they believing in Christ for? If it is not for eternal security than WHAT KIND OF SALVATION IS IT?

Christ asks us to believe something very specific about Him: that He guarantees one's eternal salvation when they take Him at His word concerning such.
Click to expand...
Your focus is entirely wrong. In fact almost ALL of us here on this forum have it entirely wrong. LISTEN UP ALL OF US (OSAS AND NOSAS). We get so wrapped up in salvation (We/Us focused) that we forget why God first put man in the Garden. Why God delivered Israel from Egypt. It is to Worship Him (not worship as we have defined it in the Western church). Jesus said to the Devil in the Wilderness: Matthew 4v10 ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.’”

What does worship mean:

Strongs:
Word: proskunew
Pronounce: pros-koo-neh'-o
Strongs Number: G4352
Orig: from 4314 and a probable derivative of 2965 (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master's hand); to fawn or crouch to, i.e. (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore):--worship. G4314
Use: TDNT-6:758,948 Verb
Heb Strong: H2111 H3766 H5401 H5456 H5647 H7812
  1. 1) to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence
    2) among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence
    3) in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication
    3a) used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank
    3a1) to the Jewish high priests
    3a2) to God
    3a3) to Christ
    3a4) to heavenly beings
    3a5) to demons
So here we are arguing about the basics (thats really what this endless arguing is over - the basics Hebrews 6v1). All of this is still in the US/WE/OUR Zone. How do WE get to heaven. With very little consideration for true worship (in Spirit and Truth). Look through the list above. He called out a people for this reason. So how do you HONOUR God in your everyday life. Is your daily walk representative of WORSHIP, or is it a legal contract demanding he grant you access through the pearly gates because of His promises.

A time for all of us to reflect.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#120,638
#120,638
eternally-gratefull said:
I am going to place that on ignore. It’s not worthy it
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I know they always want to frame the argument their way .. but we cannot fall into their trap.. their false accusations are meaningless .. like lawlessness.... we preach Saved by grace through faith apart from works... a completely free gift end of story.

The preach law and a fickle Saviour

Shame on them
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#120,639
#120,639
Chris1975 said:
Your focus is entirely wrong. In fact almost ALL of us here on this forum have it entirely wrong. LISTEN UP ALL OF US (OSAS AND NOSAS). We get so wrapped up in salvation (We/Us focused) that we forget why God first put man in the Garden. Why God delivered Israel from Egypt. It is to Worship Him (not worship as we have defined it in the Western church). Jesus said to the Devil in the Wilderness: Matthew 4v10 ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.’”

What does worship mean:

Strongs:
Word: proskunew
Pronounce: pros-koo-neh'-o
Strongs Number: G4352
Orig: from 4314 and a probable derivative of 2965 (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master's hand); to fawn or crouch to, i.e. (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore):--worship. G4314
Use: TDNT-6:758,948 Verb
Heb Strong: H2111 H3766 H5401 H5456 H5647 H7812
  1. 1) to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence
    2) among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence
    3) in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication
    3a) used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank
    3a1) to the Jewish high priests
    3a2) to God
    3a3) to Christ
    3a4) to heavenly beings
    3a5) to demons
So here we are arguing about the basics (thats really what this endless arguing is over - the basics Hebrews 6v1). All of this is still in the US/WE/OUR Zone. How do WE get to heaven. With very little consideration for true worship (in Spirit and Truth). Look through the list above. He called out a people for this reason. So how do you HONOUR God in your everyday life. Is your daily walk representative of WORSHIP, or is it a legal contract demanding he grant you access through the pearly gates because of His promises.

A time for all of us to reflect.
Click to expand...
Gotcha cornered eh?

Switching topics.. so now we are onto worship when we were talking about belief :rolleyes:

Okay I am with @eternally-gratefull you do not want the Gospel...
Done for now
 
Chris1975

Chris1975

Senior Member
#120,640
Apr 27, 2017
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517
113
#120,640
EleventhHour said:
Gotcha cornered eh?

Switching topics.. so now we are onto worship when we were talking about belief :rolleyes:

Okay I am with @eternally-gratefull you do not want the Gospel...
Done for now
Click to expand...
Not really. You could not post any scriptures. I thought I would give you a break instead of pressing you.

Posts nr 120625 and 120626
 
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