Women will be saved through Childbearing, if
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And yet, Paul having women teachers, what we'd call preachers, working side by side with him in ministry, and whom he praised for that in his letters, revokes any notion that women are not called to teach or prophesy for that matter.
And as for women not being in charge over men, again, if one reads Paul's letters word for word, they read that he is managing the churches he started. When he uses first person pronoun, I . I do not.....
That's Paul stating this, not God, as he makes clear.
And yet, women did teach, which means they did speak in church and to the church. Paul's order that women remain silent, if we are to take that as an order for women not to speak in any capacity in church, would negate every choir that has women in it today, every missionary mission that has women serving, every prayer meeting that has women leading a prayer, and of course would mean Sunday school for children would be led by men only.
This ain't Islam!
Bigotry is a sin. How dare anyone think God ordains Misogyny as part of His will and plan for all the church who are one in Christ. ONE!
Each and every ONE serves different roles, that doesn't mean a role a woman serves is of less import than that of the men.
And as for women not being in charge over men, again, if one reads Paul's letters word for word, they read that he is managing the churches he started. When he uses first person pronoun, I . I do not.....
That's Paul stating this, not God, as he makes clear.
And yet, women did teach, which means they did speak in church and to the church. Paul's order that women remain silent, if we are to take that as an order for women not to speak in any capacity in church, would negate every choir that has women in it today, every missionary mission that has women serving, every prayer meeting that has women leading a prayer, and of course would mean Sunday school for children would be led by men only.
This ain't Islam!
Bigotry is a sin. How dare anyone think God ordains Misogyny as part of His will and plan for all the church who are one in Christ. ONE!
Each and every ONE serves different roles, that doesn't mean a role a woman serves is of less import than that of the men.
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I grasped that you're adding to the passage what isn't there.
Shame on you.
The Epistle to the church in Galatia chapter 3
By Faith, or by Works of the Law?
3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. 2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by[a] the flesh? 4 Did you suffer[b] so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?
7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify[c] the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” 9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
The Righteous Shall Live by Faith
10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” 11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”[d] 12 But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— 14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit[e] through faith.
The Law and the Promise
15 To give a human example, brothers:[f] even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. 16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. 17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. 18 For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.
19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. 20 Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. 22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave[g] nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
Footnotes
English Standard Version (ESV)
One= εἱς (heis)
Strong: G1520, G3391
GK: G1651
numeral one, Mt. 10:29, freq.; only, Mk. 12:6; one virtually by union, Mt. 19:5, 6; Jn. 10:30; one and the same, Lk. 12:52; Rom. 3:30; one in respect of office and standing, 1 Cor. 3:8; equivalent to τις, a certain one, Mt. 8:19; 16:14; a, an, Mt. 21:19; Jas. 4:13; εἱς ἕκαστος, each one, every one, Lk. 4:40; Acts 2:3; εἱς τὸν ἕνα, one another, 1 Thess. 5:11; εἱς καὶ εἱς, the one- and the other, Mt. 20:21; εἱς καθ’ εἱς and ὁδὲ καθ’ εἱς, one by one, one after another, in succession, Mk. 14:19; Jn. 8:9; as an ordinal, first, Mt. 28:1
[g]doulos: a slave
Original Word: δοῦλος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Adjective; Noun, Feminine; Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: doulos
Phonetic Spelling: (doo'-los)
Definition: a slave
Usage: (a) (as adj.) enslaved, (b) (as noun) a (male) slave.
Shame on you.
The Epistle to the church in Galatia chapter 3
By Faith, or by Works of the Law?
3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. 2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by[a] the flesh? 4 Did you suffer[b] so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?
7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify[c] the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” 9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
The Righteous Shall Live by Faith
10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” 11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”[d] 12 But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— 14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit[e] through faith.
The Law and the Promise
15 To give a human example, brothers:[f] even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. 16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. 17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. 18 For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.
19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. 20 Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. 22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave[g] nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
Footnotes
- [a]Galatians 3:3 Or now ending with
- Galatians 3:4 Or experience
[*][c]Galatians 3:8 Or count righteous; also verses 11, 24
[*][d]Galatians 3:11 Or The one who by faith is righteous will live
[*][e]Galatians 3:14 Greek receive the promise of the Spirit
[*][f]Galatians 3:15 Or brothers and sisters
[*][g]Galatians 3:28 For the contextual rendering of the Greek word doulos, see Preface
English Standard Version (ESV)
One= εἱς (heis)
Strong: G1520, G3391
GK: G1651
numeral one, Mt. 10:29, freq.; only, Mk. 12:6; one virtually by union, Mt. 19:5, 6; Jn. 10:30; one and the same, Lk. 12:52; Rom. 3:30; one in respect of office and standing, 1 Cor. 3:8; equivalent to τις, a certain one, Mt. 8:19; 16:14; a, an, Mt. 21:19; Jas. 4:13; εἱς ἕκαστος, each one, every one, Lk. 4:40; Acts 2:3; εἱς τὸν ἕνα, one another, 1 Thess. 5:11; εἱς καὶ εἱς, the one- and the other, Mt. 20:21; εἱς καθ’ εἱς and ὁδὲ καθ’ εἱς, one by one, one after another, in succession, Mk. 14:19; Jn. 8:9; as an ordinal, first, Mt. 28:1
[g]doulos: a slave
Original Word: δοῦλος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Adjective; Noun, Feminine; Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: doulos
Phonetic Spelling: (doo'-los)
Definition: a slave
Usage: (a) (as adj.) enslaved, (b) (as noun) a (male) slave.
Yes they do. Pastor wasn't a word used by Paul in those days, but it remains that Pastor is what is being referred to.
Look, you can deny women are called by God to serve as prophets, pastors, teachers, missionaries, in scripture and in today's world. You'll answer to God for that in the end.
Meanwhile, that there are women who are in pastoral authority, serve as teachers of the word, prophetesses even, missionaries definitely, and have even given their lives in service, revokes your argument entirely. Because those offices of services are callings by God.
And you should not think yourself entitled to speak for God by corrupting what is written in God's word so that you believe it says what you prefer to think about women. Because that too you will answer for, thinking you are able to argue what God would never do; call women to be in pastoral authority.
That there is one woman who is in this world, proves you false in your understanding.
Not only are their women in authority over congregations of men and women, there are women in authority over men and women in the military! In the police force across this country and elsewhere in the world. There are women who are in authority interpreting the laws of men and sitting on the highest court in the land; the United States Supreme Court (SCOTUS).
And if it weren't for a woman, you wouldn't be here arguing women serve a different role than men and it is one that does not allow them to be in authority over men. Your daddy didn't give birth to you, your mom did!
That's a role superior to the man. And by God's design.
Thinking other offices far less in power and importance can't possibly be occupied by a woman by God's design is ridiculous. Interpolating scripture to comport with your bias doesn't make you right. It makes you weak.
And when you pass on you shall be judged for that. And for every word you uttered thinking to defend God's nature and desire for His creation.
I'd worry if I were you.
God is not a man.
Look, you can deny women are called by God to serve as prophets, pastors, teachers, missionaries, in scripture and in today's world. You'll answer to God for that in the end.
Meanwhile, that there are women who are in pastoral authority, serve as teachers of the word, prophetesses even, missionaries definitely, and have even given their lives in service, revokes your argument entirely. Because those offices of services are callings by God.
And you should not think yourself entitled to speak for God by corrupting what is written in God's word so that you believe it says what you prefer to think about women. Because that too you will answer for, thinking you are able to argue what God would never do; call women to be in pastoral authority.
That there is one woman who is in this world, proves you false in your understanding.
Not only are their women in authority over congregations of men and women, there are women in authority over men and women in the military! In the police force across this country and elsewhere in the world. There are women who are in authority interpreting the laws of men and sitting on the highest court in the land; the United States Supreme Court (SCOTUS).
And if it weren't for a woman, you wouldn't be here arguing women serve a different role than men and it is one that does not allow them to be in authority over men. Your daddy didn't give birth to you, your mom did!
That's a role superior to the man. And by God's design.
Thinking other offices far less in power and importance can't possibly be occupied by a woman by God's design is ridiculous. Interpolating scripture to comport with your bias doesn't make you right. It makes you weak.
And when you pass on you shall be judged for that. And for every word you uttered thinking to defend God's nature and desire for His creation.
I'd worry if I were you.
God is not a man.
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I
WOW!
Sitting back and just reading,really reading what people post gives great insights into who they truly are in what they think !
Some are just silly in their arguments,some profoundly inspired!
If God calls a man or woman to do a work,and they have tried the Spirit,then who ARE we to say.....nay!
Sitting back and just reading,really reading what people post gives great insights into who they truly are in what they think !
Some are just silly in their arguments,some profoundly inspired!
If God calls a man or woman to do a work,and they have tried the Spirit,then who ARE we to say.....nay!
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Boy aren't you relieved. God is a Holy Spirit. Thinking that which is Holy is bigoted as the sinful human race can be is blasphemy.
That is also why your argument against women in authority is corrupt and wrong and contrary to scripture.
You refuse to understand even Paul's own words. "I do not...."
I Paul do not.
That's not God speaking. That's Paul managing the churches he founded through issuance of his epistles to them.
That is also why your argument against women in authority is corrupt and wrong and contrary to scripture.
You refuse to understand even Paul's own words. "I do not...."
I Paul do not.
That's not God speaking. That's Paul managing the churches he founded through issuance of his epistles to them.
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Was it clear that the prophet was speaking for God and not for himself? Regardless of the reason if it were a scripturally sound absolute that women should not be in positions of authority over men than God would not have appointed her in the first place, especially in such a high position as a judge over Israel. At the period in biblical history that was the highest position of authority that could be held by either a man or a woman. Apparently, it is not a scripturally sound absolute that a woman cannot be in a position of authority over a man. If so, then this remains true in this present time as well.
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I agree wholeheartedly. I myself have stated many times that you have to be careful to discern whether Paul is stating his opinion or reiterating what God has specifically revealed to him. There are quite a few instances where it is clear that Paul was speaking for himself as a man, living in that period of time, culture, and tradition and not strictly speaking for God. That does not mean that his opinion should be totally disregarded in all instances. That is what wisdom is for as to whether or not to apply his teaching to a specific situation. Paul saying "I do not..." is clearly his own opinion and not necessarily God' will and desire in each particular situation that it may possibly apply.
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That's a lie as my prior posts prove! Don't make false claims about my side of this argument. If you can't proceed from the truth , stop!
And you're wrong that women aren't to be in pastoral authority. Even Paul says that and praised Phoebe for her efforts.
Lastly, what you are missing is that Paul's epistles to the churches he founded are Paul's letters to the churches he founded.
They are not doctrinal edicts that pertain to the body , the church, that is the whole of those in faith in Christ.
We are of the church of God in Christ. That's not a building, not a denomination, that is the unique united whole of those, male and female, who hold faith in Jesus.
Jesus had women Apostles in his company, and they existed after He returned to the Father.
Those are women in authority over men because they know more than the men they deliver the Good News to, and by God's calling.
Like the excerpt in the article stated, we do not follow Paul's governance of his churches in our own today. My church does not have the holy kiss. There are other things that occurred in Paul's founded churches that aren't happening in other churches. And there are gatherings of Christians who are a church in themselves, because they are all one in Christ and the church of Christ is the Ekklesia first and foremost.
When we are all one, and yes, we all serve different roles, but those roles are not less than to one another. They are in toto in service to God the Father, who see's no degradation nor separation due to gender. Go shows no partiality.
And you're wrong that women aren't to be in pastoral authority. Even Paul says that and praised Phoebe for her efforts.
Lastly, what you are missing is that Paul's epistles to the churches he founded are Paul's letters to the churches he founded.
They are not doctrinal edicts that pertain to the body , the church, that is the whole of those in faith in Christ.
We are of the church of God in Christ. That's not a building, not a denomination, that is the unique united whole of those, male and female, who hold faith in Jesus.
Jesus had women Apostles in his company, and they existed after He returned to the Father.
Those are women in authority over men because they know more than the men they deliver the Good News to, and by God's calling.
Like the excerpt in the article stated, we do not follow Paul's governance of his churches in our own today. My church does not have the holy kiss. There are other things that occurred in Paul's founded churches that aren't happening in other churches. And there are gatherings of Christians who are a church in themselves, because they are all one in Christ and the church of Christ is the Ekklesia first and foremost.
When we are all one, and yes, we all serve different roles, but those roles are not less than to one another. They are in toto in service to God the Father, who see's no degradation nor separation due to gender. Go shows no partiality.
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