Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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How do you know that all the people who were believers in Galatia who received Paul’s admonishing epistle, did not all hear Paul and reject and turn away the judaizer heresyNo. I understand the difference quite well, thank you.
The Galatians were real believers, yet they fell into unbelief.
....and your point is?
Everybody knows that.
But not everybody knows that their works-less faith that is 'alone' is actually that hypocritical, fake faith that can't save. Once saved always saved has deceived them into thinking it is saving faith when actually it may not be that at all.
And that's why you should keep believing and not cast it away.
After all, we know that John said “those who know God hear us”. (Apostolic teaching as the Word of God, not of man). So those who were of God, does it not follow that they would have heard and heeded the warnings and admonitions of Paul?
Galatians 5
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
verse 1- Christ has made those Paul is addressing free. They have liberty. They are told to stand fast in it. Established fact.
verse 1 - A Warning, not to be entangled AGAIN. Which means they were previously entangled, became untangled, and are now at risk of become ENTANGLED AGAIN.
verse 2 - By Gentiles now going to follow Jewish laws by becoming Circumcised, it shows they are trying to follow a Law to be Right with God. They are not right by the outward act to prove their righteousness. They are right only by Faith in Christ who is our righteousness.
verse 3 - if you want to follow the law to obtain righteousness then you are under the obligation to uphold the entire law which is impossible without Christ.
verse 4 - Justification is by Christ alone. Therefore a WARNING. These being addressed can become ESTRANGED FROM CHRIST. Tell me how do you become estranged from Christ if you were never in Christ?
verse 4 - You have fallen from grace. How can you fall from grace if you never received grace? Or put another way, how can an unbeliever fall from grace if they were never in grace? Only a believer can fall from grace. That is what it is saying here. And if it a believer falling from grace then a believer can lose salvation through unbelief, because it is grace that saves.
@Ruby123 @dcontroversal hope you guys are ok in australia i saw the air quality in sydney is horrible due to the forest fires going on there.
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EleventhHour
Guest
Okay ...I think the deity of Christ can be discussed apart from the Trinity doctrine I made that statement in order to keep the topic narrow with @iymus
For those with Eyes to See
Matthew 24
(1) 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.
(2) 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.
(3) 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
Three verses. One after the other. Verses that say so much and are inextricably linked to the Spiritual warfare here on the forum.
John 14v15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.
1 John 2v3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 3v4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
2 Thessalonians 2
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.
Matthew 24
(1) 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.
(2) 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.
(3) 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
Three verses. One after the other. Verses that say so much and are inextricably linked to the Spiritual warfare here on the forum.
John 14v15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.
1 John 2v3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 3v4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
2 Thessalonians 2
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.
And those who were of God, would they have heeded Paul’s warnings or disregarded them?
Understood. But most fall into either Trinitarian, Unitarian, or Oneness. I think Trinitarian is the Biblical position. God bless
Matthew 12:34
You brood of vipers! How can you speak good, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?
E
EleventhHour
Guest
He denies that Jesus is God so the doctrine of the Trinity is not really even on the table...but that is my humble opinion...and you know I always strive for humility
He denies that Jesus is God so the doctrine of the Trinity is not really even on the table...but that is my humble opinion...and you know I always strive for humility
I understand what you’re saying.
The Elect will. Not all current believers are Elect. Some will go on in the faith, some will draw back. That's why its important to correctly distinguish election verses from verses addressed to all believers. Warnings are given to all believers. The Elect will never fall into Apostasy (which is what you are trying to tell me and I agree!) But Believers can (which is what I'm trying to tell you).
Look at this one addressed to believers (an edification call):
2 Peter 1
10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
If you want to believe I was Complaining, then that is just another thing you have been Wrong About.
So be it.
No, we just will not let you Push us into Arguing with you. If you want an argument, try TOPIX Christian Forum, they let Atheist join in the so-called Christian Forum. Do you know why we do not like to argue?
Titus 3:9-11 (HCSB)
9 But avoid foolish debates, genealogies, quarrels, and disputes about the law,
for they are unprofitable and worthless.
10 Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning,
11 knowing that such a person is perverted and sins, being self-condemned.
They are the BAD FRUIT that identifies a non-Born Again disciple.
Galatians 5:19-21 (NIV)
19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;
20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions
21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before,
that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
This is the Bible Discussion Forum. Invariably there are different views as to scriptural truths. It is here that we debate them. It is a ringfenced part of the ChristianChat Forum. Therefore this is fair game for this forum. You may not like what you hear in return, because you may be forced to confront paradigms and walls that you have built around certain doctrines. But that's part of a healthy debate. I have nothing against you. If you wish to ignore me, it won't offend me. You are totally in control of your Ignore button. You have my blessing to use it if you wish to. I say again....No issues.
So you don’t think the warning passages apply to the Elect? Correct me if I misunderstand you, because I would differ with you on this. I would say that the warning passages are the means by which God accomplishes the sanctification and keeping of His Elect just as the salvation verses are the means by which God draws and saves the elect.
Do you agree?