"All Have sinned," really?
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just a note - i like to refer to Adam's wife as Woman before they were cast out of the garden and Eve afterwards. because that was her name at the time. Adam named her, twice. and it was when Adam changed her name that God said of Adam behold! the man has become like one of Us. i find that significant, so i try to remind myself by calling her by the name that she is called in the context i speak of her.
no, in a post above post is posting to you that in the NT Adam is also counted with transgressions, because your post came across to post as though you were wrapping up Adam's transgression in Woman's. that seems like a logical thing to do if you read Genesis, and read 1 Timothy, but you don't read Romans or 1 Corinthians -- and really, it seems like if a person just read Genesis and could see what's being said here about Jesus Christ, could really see - then Genesis would be all you'd need to read to understand.
i don't believe that the Bible records generations by men because of chauvinism. the fact that the line of the Seed of the Woman & the line of the throne of David is recorded for us by the fathers, not the mothers, i don't believe this is because 'ancient cultures were unenlightened and more sexist' or that 'patriarchy is just a result of men being more physically dominant etc.' i don't think you do either - i just think it ought to be said.i believe the record of scripture, the Son of God revealed as Son of Man, is teaching us something about God. we're talking about not just the first humans but the first marriage, and that's a picture. it's a picture of the same thing that the whole Bible is a revelation of: God redeeming man unto Himself. that's who Jesus is: God saving. Immanuel; Him with us.
Romans talks about 'the first Adam' -- and The Last. it is an amazing thing, that Woman was the first of mankind to sin, and who gave to Adam the fruit, but it is Adam through which sin entered the world. it is the truth. the Bible doesn't say, 'through one human' sin entered the world - it says through one man. one human man, yes, but Adam, not Woman.
ἄνθρωπος Ἀδὰμ -- anthropos Adam, human Adam. Adam's a name. we're talking about a specific human, with a name: Adam. he is the human through which sin entered the world, even though he wasn't the first human to sin. he is the human through which sin is inherited by the world, even if he sinned for another human's sake, who sinned before him. sin was in the world before the law, and Adam was judged not only because he didn't eat the fruit, but also - and firstly - because he listened to her. he, undeceived, listened to her. he knew exactly what he was doing. he knew exactly what she had done. he knew the implications and the consequences, and he listened to her.
and he is a figure of Christ, who for the joy set before Him, took up the cross for us, His poisoned bride, to heal us, His own.
so Adam called her name Eve because she would be the mother of all the living.
Christ was not born of Joseph's seed.
Mary was a virgin, and no man had lain with her.
the Holy Spirit overshadowed her.
no, in a post above post is posting to you that in the NT Adam is also counted with transgressions, because your post came across to post as though you were wrapping up Adam's transgression in Woman's. that seems like a logical thing to do if you read Genesis, and read 1 Timothy, but you don't read Romans or 1 Corinthians -- and really, it seems like if a person just read Genesis and could see what's being said here about Jesus Christ, could really see - then Genesis would be all you'd need to read to understand.
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
(Romans 5:14)
'transgression of Adam' -- it's right here. not, 'after the transgression of Woman.'i don't believe that the Bible records generations by men because of chauvinism. the fact that the line of the Seed of the Woman & the line of the throne of David is recorded for us by the fathers, not the mothers, i don't believe this is because 'ancient cultures were unenlightened and more sexist' or that 'patriarchy is just a result of men being more physically dominant etc.' i don't think you do either - i just think it ought to be said.i believe the record of scripture, the Son of God revealed as Son of Man, is teaching us something about God. we're talking about not just the first humans but the first marriage, and that's a picture. it's a picture of the same thing that the whole Bible is a revelation of: God redeeming man unto Himself. that's who Jesus is: God saving. Immanuel; Him with us.
Romans talks about 'the first Adam' -- and The Last. it is an amazing thing, that Woman was the first of mankind to sin, and who gave to Adam the fruit, but it is Adam through which sin entered the world. it is the truth. the Bible doesn't say, 'through one human' sin entered the world - it says through one man. one human man, yes, but Adam, not Woman.
And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The Last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
(1 Corinthians 15:45)
(1 Corinthians 15:45)
ἄνθρωπος Ἀδὰμ -- anthropos Adam, human Adam. Adam's a name. we're talking about a specific human, with a name: Adam. he is the human through which sin entered the world, even though he wasn't the first human to sin. he is the human through which sin is inherited by the world, even if he sinned for another human's sake, who sinned before him. sin was in the world before the law, and Adam was judged not only because he didn't eat the fruit, but also - and firstly - because he listened to her. he, undeceived, listened to her. he knew exactly what he was doing. he knew exactly what she had done. he knew the implications and the consequences, and he listened to her.
and he is a figure of Christ, who for the joy set before Him, took up the cross for us, His poisoned bride, to heal us, His own.
so Adam called her name Eve because she would be the mother of all the living.
Christ was not born of Joseph's seed.
Mary was a virgin, and no man had lain with her.
the Holy Spirit overshadowed her.
Now that I think about it even further "and this is not to make Adam blameless" but usually when women that are close to me give me food I just eat it no questions.
also upon further examination we can see that the woman was given a greater punishment
Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
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Adam blamed the woman; Woman blamed the serpent; woman conceived lust which brought forth sin and death: transgression counted with the woman
Gen 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
Gen 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1Ti 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
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Death never to rise to new spirit life is the punishment.
It can't get and greater than that. Part of the death sentence was woman will desire to have first place but she will have second. .Because she took the lead rather than Adam who was to typify our invisible head.
God's law began when he said; let His presence as Light be and behold it was good.
That moral law was given to Adam and Eve those subject to salvation. . Satan whom God found sin in his heart occurred earlier. Adam and Eve where brought into a corrupted earth. That creation of messengers called angels is not subject to the moral laws of God. No mercy set aside for that creation.
The 4th day under the Sun the corruption began . By the six day all thing were pronounced good that were good. But not everything was good. He rested on the 7th. It continues today to bring rest to those who mix faith in what they do see or hear and therefore not harden their hearts.
it seems to be supported by the law below.
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. Genesis 3:16
I think we can see that as also informed in the law being revisited in 1Corintihian 14. The reformation had come. Women were un-chained from the pagan of government. Kings in Israel had come to a end. Women liberated were now allowed to participate in the ceremonies with men as well as the gentiles.
The 2 walls of separation fell down. The promise of Joel had come men and woman from all nations bringing their new tongue the gospel a explosion like never before or ever again.
Things were getting turned right side up.. . mixing it up . Women prophesying sharing the gospel, the new tongue had gotten carried away and lost the virtue established in the garden .
If they desired to share what they were learning from the Holy Spirit in them they were said to do it at home. The ceremony was a separate event as a picture to the world or unbelievers . do it at home. Or have a Pot lunch, the sound of many waters. . No hearing pins dropped.
For it is a shame when one gender lords it over another. Its not that women cannot teach men by sharing the gospel their new tongue seeing one is our teaching Master in heaven and we are not to call no man or woman infallible teacher on earth Teacher, Master or Rabi .
But they who will become one in the new heavens and earth have the same commandment … Go out into the world bring the seed and plant it. Perhaps Christ will cause growth.
In a place where multiple families gather together. . . order is needed to perform the ceremonial display which is represented by two new ceremonies working as one to represent the coming Glory.
The uncovered head of man with woman as his representational glory (women are signified as the glory of men) and the covered hair of a women her representation. . not leaving her without her own representational glory and two, the partaking in the wedding supper. (blood of grapes and bread). They work together as two to represent to the world. . the unseen glory of the bride. The only glory to be seen is the glory of faith . The temporal.
1 Corinthians 11. a shadow of the wedding to come.
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. .And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. 1Corintihian 14 34-35
The comandment as law. . and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Loving authority plus wiling submisiveness. . the gospel of peace.
Because we are not what we will be. The woman represents the whole church, as the bride. The husband represents the unseen head. Christ. Therefore as another part of the witness of the law..The beauty when we do see the results of a virtuous woman.
"Your desire shall be for your husband, but he shall rule over you" is not a commandent; rather, it is a statement of consequence. God told the now-sinful couple what would happen as a direct result of their sin. He told the man that the ground would produce thorns and thistles, and that it would produce fruit only with effort (sweat). He told the serpent that it would crawl on its belly. Do these things sound like "commandments"? No. Nothing in Scripture suggests that the consequences given to Eve were as a result of her "taking the lead" as you claimed.
At least not word for word. We know it was in the garden when God saw pride in Satan before mankind. It would seem to be represented on day 3 when the glory departed and the corrupted time period under the sun begun the countdown on the 4th day .
When do you think it was corrupted ? And what support from scriptures?
Genesis 3. .Your desire shall be (not should or maybe will be ) for your husband, he shall rule over you (not could or maybe ). It is the commandment . Just like . . Study to show oneself approved. or beleive upon the lord and you will be saved. Not just a good suggestion. Not just a good philosophical opinion .He shall as a commandment states. It is the law of a virtuous woman to represent the body of Christ subject to her husband Christ. It is not subject to change it cannot be used if man represented the bride.
.It is the one law spoken of in 1 Corinthians 14. In respect to over zealous women who were free to share the gospel. Some took the lead and did not work together as one . They were informed to take the wild oats at home, slow down in their new found gift, the new tongue a desire to spread the seed . Word for word (sola scriptura) .
.It is the one law spoken of in 1 Corinthians 14. In respect to over zealous women who were free to share the gospel. Some took the lead and did not work together as one . They were informed to take the wild oats at home, slow down in their new found gift, the new tongue a desire to spread the seed . Word for word (sola scriptura) .
The Book of Genesis chapter 1
You see, and this is for anyone new to Bible study, there is nothing in the book of creation, that would be The Book of Genesis, that sustains what you claim above. There is not one word of scripture that says what you have posted. Not one.
For "glory" to have departed on the third day and what you call a "corrupted time period under the sun begun the countdown on the fourth day", God, "glory", would have been unable to say on the sixth day after gazing at all He created and judging it very good.
What do you believe corrupted creation starting on the third day? Because from start to the sixth day, including the creation of man and woman in the image and likeness of God, there did not yet occur in that chapter 1 reporting of creation from day one unto the sixth day, the temptation of Eve by the serpent. Therefore, there was no sin as yet in the garden, no transgression of God's law that commanded Adam not to eat of the forbidden fruit.
Where then do you believe corruption began on day three when God was still in the process of creating all until the sixth day when it was complete.
There is absolutely nothing in Scripture to support the idea that the glory departed on day 3. You're making things up again.
The creation was corrupted when Adam sinned. In Genesis 3:17, God said clearly, "The ground is cursed because of you."
It's a statement of consequence, not a commandment. God is wise; why would a wise God command the woman that the now-sinful man would rule over her? That's wacky on at least two counts. If it were a commandment, God would have told the man, "You shall rule over the women", but He didn't say it that way at all.
Not lord it over
I think its about hidden glory reserved for his bride the church.
I could be making it up. But it seems to flow with me. Yes the corrupted ground by which they ate bread. When Cain sinned it became more work than Cain could bear. Raising the load. A heavy load. (hell) and more work for the father of lies also . On the belly thou shall go and eat death dust. No walking. Just slithering
Scripture said he found sin in the heart father of lies in the garden from the day he was created . Possibly he was created the 3rd. It would not take long for God to see into the future. It could of been in the twinkling of the eye.. looking ahead to his future bride the new creation.
Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. Ezekiel 28. 15
The fourth day time began by using the two witnesses under the sun . The creation was corrupted before mankind was formed . The first three days began as the glory of God. It illuminated the earth.. Not the heaven above .That was accomplished by the Sun the temporal . It is the solar center lighting the universe. Day 4 entered the picture .Previously the glory of God hiding himself for 12 hours and exposing his glory as daylight for 12 hours . In the new heavens and earth the. . glory of God again will be the light. There will be no darkness or night ever again . It served it purpose to be used to represent evil
And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honor into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. Revelation 21: 22-25
Not lord it over. No more than the Father lorded it over the Son of God. Rule, as loving authority working with one submissive as two working together in perfect harmony to form the government of peace that surpasses all human understanding. . A virtuous chaste virgin bride the church. .Not one that takes the lead as Eve. Or the woman in 1 Corinthians that disrupted the new order of meeting. If she cannot get with the program then she should be silent and discuss the gospel the new tongue at home. Rather than usurping the represented head, man, as in the garden .
You're certainly welcome to think what you like, but your thoughts have nothing to do with the text itself. Your thinking would be far more worthwhile if it were solidly rooted in the actual text of Scripture.
You're definitely making it up, whether it flows or not.
No; God created the two great lights (sun and moon) on the fourth day. The text says nothing about "two witnesses under the sun." You continually try to relate completely unrelated sections of Scripture, and you end up with gobbledegook.
No, God simply said, "Let there be light" and there was light. It's that simple. You're adding a bunch of speculations that aren't in the text and aren't supported by the text.
I didn't say "lord it over"; don't change my words and then write paragraphs in response to what I didn't say.
You keep trying to inject some grand overarching symbolic meaning to every verse; it ain't there, and you're just speculating.