Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Truth is sometimes not nice.
The word ignorance is not offensive.....funny how people are so easily offended in this day an age that we have to have a list of TRIGGER words......10 to 1 God looks down in disgust upon those people that name him and how easily offended they are by the truth
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
The word ignorance is not offensive.....funny how people are so easily offended in this day an age that we have to have a list of TRIGGER words......10 to 1 God looks down in disgust upon those people that name him and how easily offended they are by the truth
It seems like....
Truth offensive... lies okay
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
That’s because everything on this earth has to be worked for.but even then ther are things we will never be able to afford

salvation is one of those things,you can never do enough works to purchase forgiveness for one sin, let alone the probably thousands you have committed since birth

james is speaking of those licentious people you spoke of who have no faith, and never did, which is why they had no work. James did not contradict paul (Rom 4)
How hard is it to grasp...WORKS or GRACE...ONE or the OTHER......and for SURE not blended to gain the eternal life afforded by salvation when one believes......
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
as usual. very selective editing of Scripture.

belief and belief in Jesus alone is all that is required to be saved.

but, a true believer will do good works , as James said- faith without works is dead.

but, the faith produces the works, not the works maintain the faith.

that is where you legalists get it wrong.
Totally agree, but we cannot alleviate the following truths....

TO the one that DOES NOT WORK, but believes on him that JUSTIFIES the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness.

and

The one that teaches, but does not DO shall be called the LEAST in the KINGDOM <---STILL in the KINGDOM

and we cannot forget

If one does believe, they do have ONE work to their name <---The work of the Heavenly FATHER -->TO BELIEVE on the one whom he sent......
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
I love you dcon, but you hurt some very good, kind, and yes, sensitive people. Some of them new members that never came back. That is sad.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Put my pants on????? I did not mean to paint you so deep into the corner that you would have to resort to this kind of talk.
look, I like you.....I just so so sick of easily offended people when a believer should be mature and not easily offended which is a sign of spiritual maturity that I just shoot from the hip sometimes....it's all good....did not mean to seem pissy....
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
2,057
1,526
113
i pay for 100mbps internet and i always had good connection right i even said it today to my family i said like hey i got such a great connection i love it i will continue using them. well i made mistake of talking highly of them. now im getting 1mbps all of a sudden only lolz. thats what i get for giving compliment to my isp. ok i change my view this is the worst isp ever. maybe now my speed will go up hhehe. if it does its a miracle.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
I love you dcon, but you hurt some very good, kind, and yes, sensitive people. Some of them new members that never came back. That is sad.
Well....I call spades spades and generally only fire on someone when fired upon, but make no mistake...I will adamantly defend the truth....especially when what is being peddled leads to hell.....
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
2,057
1,526
113
not easily offended which is a sign of spiritual maturity.
is this the verse you had in mind: "great peace have they that love thy law and nothing shall offend them" i think thats how it is in the bible. i would look it up precisely but as i said internet too slow hahahaha.
 

iymus

Junior Member
Feb 15, 2016
108
15
18
Ironic that you got someone with a military photo up and preaching lack of accountability and faithless works when it comes to the Gospel of Christ.

Discipline, Accountability, and Works are a foundation of life. None of the naysayers have corrected. Some have tried to use my Spiritual status of unsure on my profile. Others have rebuked my improper spelling of a word when they knew what I was truing to convey but none of them have used scriptures without bias to disprove my point.

Unless they can prove that their is not a sin unto death or that their is possibility of names being removed from book of life, then they cannot prove that Salvation is absolute without maintenance or growth thru Faith thru works which encompasses overcoming the world and enduring until The end.

Not much else I can say that I have not already said with verses.

Pauline Pharisees need to stop using their interpretations of the doctrine of Paul to dismiss the will and works of the Father expected of us when it comes to our perpetual salvation
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,221
1,584
113
68
Brighton, MI
It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!
Titus 3 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
The Right Way to Live
3 Remind your people that they should always be under the authority of rulers and government leaders. They should obey these leaders and be ready to do good. 2 Tell them not to speak evil of anyone but to live in peace with others. They should be gentle and polite to everyone.

3 In the past we were foolish too. We did not obey, we were wrong, and we were slaves to the many things our bodies wanted and enjoyed. We lived doing evil and being jealous. People hated us and we hated each other. 4 But then the kindness and love of God our Savior was made known. 5 He saved us because of his mercy, not because of any good things we did. He saved us through the washing that made us new people. He saved us by making us new through the Holy Spirit. 6 God poured out to us that Holy Spirit fully through Jesus Christ our Savior. 7 We were made right with God by his grace. God saved us so that we could be his children and look forward to receiving life that never ends. 8 This is a true statement.

And I want you to be sure that the people understand these things. Then those who believe in God will be careful to use their lives for doing good. These things are good and will help everyone.

9 Stay away from those who have foolish arguments, who talk about useless family histories, or who make trouble and fight about what the Law of Moses teaches. These things are useless and will not help anyone. 10 Give a warning to all those who cause arguments. If they continue to cause trouble after a second warning, then don’t associate with them. 11 You know that people like that are evil and sinful. Their sins prove they are wrong.

Final Instructions and Greetings
12 I will send Artemas and Tychicus to you. When I send them, try hard to come to me at Nicopolis. I have decided to stay there this winter. 13 Zenas the lawyer and Apollos will be traveling from there. Do all that you can to help them prepare for their trip. Be sure that they have everything they need. 14 Our people must learn to use their lives for doing good and helping anyone who has a need. Then they will not have empty lives.

15 All the people with me here send you their greetings. Give my greetings to those who love us in the faith.

Grace be with you all.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,221
1,584
113
68
Brighton, MI
Ephesians 2 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
From Death to Life
2 In the past you were spiritually dead because of your sins and the things you did against God. 2 Yes, in the past your lives were full of those sins. You lived the way the world lives, following the ruler of the evil powers[a] that are above the earth. That same spirit is now working in those who refuse to obey God. 3 In the past all of us lived like that, trying to please our sinful selves. We did all the things our bodies and minds wanted. Like everyone else in the world, we deserved to suffer God’s anger just because of the way we were.

4 But God is rich in mercy, and he loved us very much. 5 We were spiritually dead because of all we had done against him. But he gave us new life together with Christ. (You have been saved by God’s grace.) 6 Yes, it is because we are a part of Christ Jesus that God raised us from death and seated us together with him in the heavenly places. 7 God did this so that his kindness to us who belong to Christ Jesus would clearly show for all time to come the amazing richness of his grace.

8 I mean that you have been saved by grace because you believed. You did not save yourselves; it was a gift from God. 9 You are not saved by the things you have done, so there is nothing to boast about. 10 God has made us what we are. In Christ Jesus, God made us new people so that we would spend our lives doing the good things he had already planned for us to do.

One in Christ
11 You were not born as Jews. You are the people the Jews call “uncircumcised.” Those Jews who call you “uncircumcised” call themselves “circumcised.” (Their circumcision is only something they themselves do to their bodies.) 12 Remember that in the past you were without Christ. You were not citizens of Israel, and you did not know about the agreements[c] with the promises that God made to his people. You had no hope, and you did not know God. 13 Yes, at one time you were far away from God, but now in Christ Jesus, you are brought near to him. You are brought near to God through the blood sacrifice of Christ.

14 Christ is the reason we are now at peace. He made us Jews and you who are not Jews one people. We were separated by a wall of hate that stood between us, but Christ broke down that wall. By giving his own body, 15 Christ ended the law with its many commands and rules. His purpose was to make the two groups become one in him. By doing this he would make peace. 16 Through the cross Christ ended the hate between the two groups. And after they became one body, he wanted to bring them both back to God. He did this with his death on the cross. 17 Christ came and brought the message of peace to you non-Jews who were far away from God. And he brought that message of peace to those who were near to God. 18 Yes, through Christ we all have the right to come to the Father in one Spirit.

19 So now you non-Jewish people are not visitors or strangers, but you are citizens together with God’s holy people. You belong to God’s family. 20 You believers are like a building that God owns. That building was built on the foundation that the apostles and prophets prepared. Christ Jesus himself is the most important stone[d] in that building. 21 The whole building is joined together in Christ, and he makes it grow and become a holy temple[e] in the Lord. 22 And in Christ you are being built together with his other people. You are being made into a place where God lives through the Spirit.

could all enjoy that blessing together.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,221
1,584
113
68
Brighton, MI
2 Peter 1 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
1 Greetings from Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ.

To all of you who share in the same valuable faith that we have. This faith was given to us because our God and Savior Jesus Christ always does what is good and right.

2 Grace and peace be given to you more and more, because now you know God and Jesus our Lord.

God Has Given Us Everything We Need
3 Jesus has the power of God. And his power has given us everything we need to live a life devoted to God. We have these things because we know him. Jesus chose us by his glory and goodness, 4 through which he also gave us the very great and rich gifts that he promised us. With these gifts you can share in being like God. And so you will escape the ruin that comes to people in the world because of the evil things they want.

5 Because you have these blessings, do all you can to add to your life these things: to your faith add goodness; to your goodness add knowledge; 6 to your knowledge add self-control; to your self-control add patience; to your patience add devotion to God; 7 to your devotion add kindness toward your brothers and sisters in Christ, and to this kindness add love. 8 If all these things are in you and growing, you will never fail to be useful to God. You will produce the kind of fruit that should come from your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But those who don’t grow in these blessings are blind. They cannot see clearly what they have. They have forgotten that they were cleansed from their past sins.

10 My brothers and sisters, God called you and chose you to be his. Do your best to live in a way that shows you really are God’s called and chosen people. If you do all this, you will never fall. 11 And you will be given a very great welcome into the kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, a kingdom that never ends.

12 You already know these things. You are very strong in the truth you have. But I am always going to help you remember them. 13 While I am still living here on earth, I think it is right for me to remind you of them. 14 I know that I must soon leave this body. Our Lord Jesus Christ has shown me that. 15 I will try my best to make sure you remember these things even after I am gone.

We Saw Christ’s Glory
16 We told you about the power of our Lord Jesus Christ. We told you about his coming. The things we told you were not just clever stories that people invented. No, we saw the greatness of Jesus with our own eyes. 17 Jesus heard the voice of the great and glorious God. That was when he received honor and glory from God the Father. The voice said, “This is my Son, the one I love. I am very pleased with him.” 18 And we heard that voice. It came from heaven while we were with Jesus on the holy mountain.[a]

19 This makes us more sure about what the prophets said. And it is good for you to follow closely what they said, which is like a light shining in a dark place. You have that light until the day begins and the morning star brings new light to your minds. 20 Most important of all, you must understand this: No prophecy in the Scriptures comes from the prophet’s own understanding. 21 No prophecy ever came from what some person wanted to say. But people were led by the Holy Spirit and spoke words from God.

Hebrews 11
Faith is what makes real the things we hope for. It is proof of what we cannot see. 2 God was pleased with the people who lived a long time ago because they had faith like this.

3 Faith helps us understand that God created the whole world by his command. This means that the things we see were made by something that cannot be seen.

4 Cain and Abel both offered sacrifices to God. But Abel offered a better sacrifice to God because he had faith. God said he was pleased with what Abel offered. And so God called him a good man because he had faith. Abel died, but through his faith he is still speaking.

5 Enoch was carried away from this earth, so he never died. The Scriptures tell us that before he was carried off, he was a man who pleased God. Later, no one knew where he was, because God had taken Enoch to be with him. This all happened because he had faith. 6 Without faith no one can please God. Whoever comes to God must believe that he is real and that he rewards those who sincerely try to find him.

7 Noah was warned by God about things that he could not yet see. But he had faith and respect for God, so he built a large boat to save his family. With his faith, Noah showed that the world was wrong. And he became one of those who are made right with God through faith.

8 God called Abraham to travel to another place that he promised to give him. Abraham did not know where that other place was. But he obeyed God and started traveling because he had faith. 9 Abraham lived in the country that God promised to give him. He lived there like a visitor who did not belong. He did this because he had faith. He lived in tents with Isaac and Jacob, who also received the same promise from God. 10 Abraham was waiting for the city[a] that has real foundations. He was waiting for the city that is planned and built by God.

11 Sarah was not able to have children, and Abraham was too old. But he had faith in God, trusting him to do what he promised. And so God made them able to have children. 12 Abraham was so old he was almost dead. But from that one man came as many descendants as there are stars in the sky. So many people came from him that they are like grains of sand on the seashore.

13 All these great people continued living with faith until they died. They did not get the things God promised his people. But they were happy just to see those promises coming far in the future. They accepted the fact that they were like visitors and strangers here on earth. 14 When people accept something like that, they show they are waiting for a country that will be their own. 15 If they were thinking about the country they had left, they could have gone back. 16 But they were waiting for a better country—a heavenly country. So God is not ashamed to be called their God. And he has prepared a city for them.

17-18 God tested Abraham’s faith. God told him to offer Isaac as a sacrifice. Abraham obeyed because he had faith. He already had the promises from God. And God had already said to him, “It is through Isaac that your descendants will come.” But Abraham was ready to offer his only son. He did this because he had faith. 19 He believed that God could raise people from death. And really, when God stopped Abraham from killing Isaac, it was as if he got him back from death.

20 Isaac blessed the future of Jacob and Esau. He did that because he had faith. 21 And Jacob, also because he had faith, blessed each one of Joseph’s sons. He did this while he was dying, leaning on his rod and worshiping God.

22 And when Joseph was almost dead, he spoke about the people of Israel leaving Egypt. And he told them what they should do with his body. He did this because he had faith.

23 And the mother and father of Moses hid him for three months after he was born. They did this because they had faith. They saw that Moses was a beautiful baby. And they were not afraid to disobey the king’s order.

24-25 Moses grew up and became a man. He refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter. He chose not to enjoy the pleasures of sin that last such a short time. Instead, he chose to suffer with God’s people. He did this because he had faith. 26 He thought it was better to suffer for the Messiah than to have all the treasures of Egypt. He was waiting for the reward that God would give him.

27 Moses left Egypt because he had faith. He was not afraid of the king’s anger. He continued strong as if he could see the God no one can see. 28 Moses prepared the Passover and spread the blood on the doorways of the people of Israel, so that the angel of death[c] would not kill their firstborn sons. Moses did this because he had faith.

29 And God’s people all walked through the Red Sea as if it were dry land. They were able to do this because they had faith. But when the Egyptians tried to follow them, they were drowned.

30 And the walls of Jericho fell because of the faith of God’s people. They marched around the walls for seven days, and then the walls fell.

31 And Rahab, the prostitute, welcomed the Israelite spies like friends. And because of her faith, she was not killed with the ones who refused to obey.

32 Do I need to give you more examples? I don’t have enough time to tell you about Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David, Samuel, and the prophets. 33 All of them had great faith. And with that faith they defeated kingdoms. They did what was right, and God helped them in the ways he promised. With their faith some people closed the mouths of lions. 34 And some were able to stop blazing fires. Others escaped from being killed with swords. Some who were weak were made strong. They became powerful in battle and defeated other armies. 35 There were women who lost loved ones but got them back when they were raised from death. Others were tortured but refused to accept their freedom. They did this so that they could be raised from death to a better life. 36 Some were laughed at and beaten. Others were tied up and put in prison. 37 They were killed with stones. They were cut in half. They were killed with swords. The only clothes some of them had were sheepskins or goatskins. They were poor, persecuted, and treated badly by others. 38 The world was not good enough for these great people. They had to wander in deserts and mountains, living in caves and holes in the ground.

39 God was pleased with all of them because of their faith. But not one of them received God’s great promise. 40 God planned something better for us. He wanted to make us perfect. Of course, he wanted those great people to be made perfect too, but not before we
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
No need... if salvation (the gift) is losable then it is earned/maintained.
The stooge is a false teacher and does not even come close to the truth with his watered down self maintained dogma......two cannot walk together unless agreed and if the foundation is corrupt the whole tree is corrupt
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
2,057
1,526
113
Ironic that you got someone with a military photo up and preaching lack of accountability and faithless works when it comes to the Gospel of Christ.

Discipline, Accountability, and Works are a foundation of life. None of the naysayers have corrected. Some have tried to use my Spiritual status of unsure on my profile. Others have rebuked my improper spelling of a word when they knew what I was truing to convey but none of them have used scriptures without bias to disprove my point.

Unless they can prove that their is not a sin unto death or that their is possibility of names being removed from book of life, then they cannot prove that Salvation is absolute without maintenance or growth thru Faith thru works which encompasses overcoming the world and enduring until The end.

Not much else I can say that I have not already said with verses.

Pauline Pharisees need to stop using their interpretations of the doctrine of Paul to dismiss the will and works of the Father when it comes to our perpetual salvation
bla bla

i find it funny that many OSAS guys like eg and big bro (does conscription military count for me?) are military guys and many of the gentle spirited so called false doctrine peddlers like mormons are vegan sissies
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
I hope you don’t mind me chiming in...there is no cut off point action. The actions reflect the condition of the heart

I am saved. Therefore when I sin, I sorrow, confess, and forsake. Because my new nature looks at sin as an enemy, not a friend.
I am saved, therefore when I sin, GRACE out bounds my sin because I have been placed into a POSITION of GRACE......

God uses...

LOVE
Blessings
and a good old fashioned BUTT SPANK (chastisement)

To draw me back.......!!

However....MY salvation is eternally secure!
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
Well....I call spades spades and generally only fire on someone when fired upon, but make no mistake...I will adamantly defend the truth....especially when what is being peddled leads to hell.....
I'm sorry if you have been hurt by my words. All of us are sensitive at times. I do love you brother. You and I are a good challenge to one another to be kind at all times.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
bla bla

i find it funny that many OSAS guys like eg and big bro (does conscription military count for me?) are military guys and many of the gentle spirited so called false doctrine peddlers like mormons are vegan sissies
I just realised after reading your post he was lying about me and or misrepresenting me...par for the course with deceivers....

FALSE--->
iymus said:
Ironic that you got someone with a military photo up and preaching lack of accountability and faithless works when it comes to the Gospel of Christ.