Not By Works

[EleventhHour]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_can't_have_your_cake_and_eat_it

Maybe you can update the Wikipedia page then.

Wikipedia's ...that is funny....

The original and correct statement is as I stated "you cannot eat your cake and have it too" ...maybe do some research on forensic linguistics.

I only stated this to demonstrate how much you hate being contradicted ...and I know I am absolutely correct and still you could not take correction... and we have shown you biblical truth repeatedly which you cannot accept because you cannot admit when you are wrong....
Smh

 

[Chris1975]

Wikipedia's ...that is funny....

The original and correct statement is as I stated "you cannot eat your cake and have it too" ...maybe do some research on forensic linguistics.

I only stated this to demonstrate how much you hate being contradicted ...and I know I am absolutely correct and still you could not take correction... and we have shown you biblical truth repeatedly which you cannot accept because you cannot admit when you are wrong....
Smh

From Wikipedia:

An early recording of the phrase is in a letter on 14 March 1538 from Thomas, Duke of Norfolk, to Thomas Cromwell, as "a man can not have his cake and eat his cake".[7] The phrase occurs with the clauses reversed in John Heywood's A dialogue Conteinyng the Nomber in Effect of All the Prouerbes in the Englishe Tongue from 1546, as "wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?".[8][9] In John Davies's Scourge of Folly of 1611, the same order is used, as "A man cannot eat his cake and haue it stil."[10]

1538 is older than 1546. Yours is the copycat error.

 

[Hevosmies]

And what he stated is not false.....

This is why people say OSAS = defending sin. You just said "what he stated is not false".... Disgusting.

I would like to point out: What EleventhHour stated here IS NOT the historical position of PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS the Reformed believe. [ @DoY ]
This is something NEW and WEIRD where you can sin and be ok as you just said "what he stated is not false". WOW!

Thats called ANTINOMIANISM. No good, no go. You're doing us all a DISSERVICE with this. Also you cant EVER again say that "you are twisting my words" or "we didnt say that" because you did now. THE CAT is out the bag. All the accusations were TRUE by your own admission. NOT A SMART MOVE.

I would like to highlight to everyone that this is NOT what the Reformed believe. Reformed also you could say calvinist or whatever you want to label it, im talking about the reformation, Luther, Calvin, you name the Reformer or Church that believed in eternal security in the past, NONE OF THEM believed in this type of lawless no transformation powerless Gospel.

The position they held was that: GOD Justifies a person, and then God also SANCTIFIES the person. Today the sanctification part seems to be "MAY OR MAY NOT occur" instead of WILL 100% occur cause God will do it:

Ezekiel 36:27
And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Fruit WILL COME not MAYBE come.

Time for me to take a break from this forum. Its UNBELIEVABLE the things I read. Not only this but I had some guy defend a man CHEATING ON HIS WIFE on here today as well. RIP Christianity. This aint normal or moral, just some WEIRD stuff. I wont be on to respond to the probably RIDICILOUS replies defending the original statement (which would never be defended by any christian of times past) showing absolute disregard for God that not even many UNBELIEVERS would dare say. Have it your way, itching ears burger king. Enjoy the heresy folks! IM OUT!

 

[Chris1975]

This is why people say OSAS = defending sin. You just said "what he stated is not false".... Disgusting.

I would like to point out: What EleventhHour stated here IS NOT the historical position of PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS the Reformed believe. [ @DoY ]
This is something NEW and WEIRD where you can sin and be ok as you just said "what he stated is not false". WOW!

Thats called ANTINOMIANISM. No good, no go. You're doing us all a DISSERVICE with this. Also you cant EVER again say that "you are twisting my words" or "we didnt say that" because you did now. THE CAT is out the bag. All the accusations were TRUE by your own admission. NOT A SMART MOVE.

I would like to highlight to everyone that this is NOT what the Reformed believe. Reformed also you could say calvinist or whatever you want to label it, im talking about the reformation, Luther, Calvin, you name the Reformer or Church that believed in eternal security in the past, NONE OF THEM believed in this type of lawless no transformation powerless Gospel.

The position they held was that: GOD Justifies a person, and then God also SANCTIFIES the person. Today the sanctification part seems to be "MAY OR MAY NOT occur" instead of WILL 100% occur cause God will do it:

Ezekiel 36:27
And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Fruit WILL COME not MAYBE come.

Time for me to take a break from this forum. Its UNBELIEVABLE the things I read. Not only this but I had some guy defend a man CHEATING ON HIS WIFE on here today as well. RIP Christianity. This aint normal or moral, just some WEIRD stuff. I wont be on to respond to the probably RIDICILOUS replies defending the original statement (which would never be defended by any christian of times past) showing absolute disregard for God that not even many UNBELIEVERS would dare say. Have it your way, itching ears burger king. Enjoy the heresy folks! IM OUT!

Hemosvies - don't leave my friend. The forum actually needs your point of view. There are many who read these forums but don't contribute with typed responses. Use the opportunity to bring the gospel despite the ridiculous propositions made. The reader will see through the fluff and come to the truth. We all contribute to building up the church of God. Please reconsider.

 

[Lightskin]

I am a "born from above" spiritual man inside this "shell of flesh", fighting the good fight! Having, by the grace of God, given an opportunity, of warring against "the adversary", which includes the "beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit!"
Fighting "fire with fire", one might say, in using the "same tools", f'rinstance, this thing called internet, in striving to "LESSEN THE VOID" caused by traditions and precepts of men, as opposed to "continually perpetuate" those traditions and precepts. In the "hopes", by my "standing?" That "others", like myself, can "see", they are not alone!

That they don't Have to "knuckle under", the "whack-a-mo" effect traditions and precepts of men have, and are continuing to do TO "the Word of God!" As a "result" of the "famine of the end times!"
Which is, as you SHOULD know is "NOT hearing the "word of God!"

Which, my "target audience", is NOT those who are not believers, who have not accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. But "those" who have! Whose "ears" and "eyes" are STILL "not hearing", and STILL "not seeing" the "word of God" that is "constantly" coming forth FROM God, as He pours out His Spirit onto ALL flesh! (just "like" the parable of the different "types" of ground) NOT from the "mouths of the pulpit!"
But the "word" that comes right in betweenst one's "ears!"
BUT?....THIS TAKES MAINTENANCE! Also, perceived as "WORKS" FOR, or the maintaining OF ones' Salvation!
Meaning, the further one "travels the strait and narrow?" (Heb. 6:1) the MORE "maintenance" is REQUIRED in the "traveling!" Which is "why" there are "so FEW" that "find" it!

The "one" instance Jesus stated, is "the way of the spurious messiah!"
The "other" instance Jesus stated is the "TRUE AND HOLY" way!
(Matthew 7:13&14)

Which is why people like myself are "in shock", when met with such a ferocious resistance, from those "supposed" members of the "body of Christ", from these "other" members of the "body" of Christ, who are "not the SAME part AS themselves!
Frankly Johnny? It's astonishingly sad!

But? I reckon, this is what happens when one strains at gnats, when swallowing illusions, eh?

That's WHAT I am!

Happy New Year. It’s 2020 and you’re still saving yourself. You have my sympathies.

 

[Judges1318]

...adding the Law and its observances to the Gospel, which in effect if embraced would have nullified Christ’s work. Very serious.

The Spirit filled Galatians DID embrace it:

"how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? 10You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain. " - Galatians 4:9-11

And I agree, this is not a simple matter of believers falling into sin. In unbelief, these believers had literally rejected the justification they had received in Christ to pursue justification through the law. And Paul does not affirm some kind of osas theology but instead expresses concern that he has wasted all his labor on them. This matter of believers falling away in unbelief is what we need to talk about, not whether or not the sinning, but still believing, believer is still saved.

Oh, and by the way. Once saved always saved is going to have to make up it's mind if true believers show themselves to be true believers by coming back after falling away in unbelief, or by never falling away. You can't have it both ways. You can't have the saved Galatians falling away and still being saved while saying 1 John 2:19 means they were never saved to begin with.

"19They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us." - 1 John 2:19

So, which is it, osas?
Obviously, 1 John 2:19 doesn't mean what osas claims it means. True believers do fall away. Do they always come back? Apparently Paul did not believe that. He expresses his concern for having wasted his labor on the fallen Galatians.

 

[RebuildJesussChurch]

Formerly, my religion ended this statement by Isaiah at the word "wool":
"Come now, let us reason together," says the Lord. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool. If you are willing and obedient, you will eat the best from the land; but if you resist and rebel, you will be devoured by the sword." For the mouth of the Lord has spoken. 1:18-20

My religion had also separated Psalm 103:11 from verse 12:
For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is His love for those who fear Him; as far as the east is from the west, so far has He removed our transgressions from us.

But now through faith in Jesus Christ, who has accomplished redemption (freedom from captivity by payment of ransom) for His people, his grace transforms us so that we can confess Psalm 101:

"I will sing of Your love and justice; to You, O Lord, I will sing praise. I will be careful to lead a blameless life - when will You come to me? I will walk in my house with blameless heart. I will set before my eyes no vile thing. The deeds of faithless men I hate; they will not cling to me. Men of perverse heart shall be far from me; I will have nothing to do with evil.

Whoever slanders his neighbor in secret, him will I put to silence; whoever has haughty eyes and a proud heart, him will I not endure. My eyes will be on the faithful in the land, that they may dwell with me; he whose walk is blameless will minister to me (Titus 1:7). No one who practices deceit will dwell in my house; no one who speaks falsely will stand in my presence. Morning by morning I will put to silence all the wicked in the land; I will cut off every evildoer from the city of the Lord(1 Cor.5:13; 1 Peter 4:17,18.)"

We have been brought from sin to righteousness; from the soul to the Spirit. We were in Egypt but now we are under God with Christ Jesus as our Head. We live by faith in the understanding that whatever is not from faith is sin. We live on the Word of God desiring it more than our daily bread, abiding in it as disciples of Christ Jesus. We are new creatures and understand that in every nation whoever fears Him and does what is right is accepted by Him. Acts 10:35. The fruit of righteousness is peace; the effect of righteousness is quietness and confidence forever.

May you press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of you in 2020!

Before we eat a meal, we read Scripture. Before we ate breakfast this morning we read Job 31:1-3, "I made a covenant with my eyes not to look lustfully at a girl. For what is man's lot from God above, his heritage from the Almighty on High? Is it not ruin for the wicked, disaster for those who do wrong?"

Thank God for a Savior who changes our hearts and sets us free from the wicked way of life we are all born in to. Satan perverted that through religion saying, "We could never measure up to God's standards so thank God He sent His Son." Grace becomes a license for sin. It's the Devil's lie from the beginning: "You shall be like God. You will also continue to rebel against Him."

Then at Bible study after breakfast, we were in 2 Samuel 2 which reiterated one of the stark distinctions between Saul and David. David, as a "Kingdom man", lived according to what Jeremiah said, "I know, O Lord, that a man's life is not his own; it's not for a man to direct his steps." Saul, on the other hand, followed his soul. They are representative of 2 types of people among God's people: vessels of gold and silver vs. vessels of wood and clay. (2 Tim.2:19-21)

David inquired of the Lord, "Shall I go up to one of the towns of Judah?" he asked. The Lord said, "Go up." David asked, "Where shall I go?" "To Hebron," the Lord answered (v.1).

That's one of the reasons I'm so grateful for the baptism with the Holy Spirit (Jn.1:33). A priest consults the Thummim and Urim, and we are a kingdom of priests. For Jesus to be my Shepherd today, I have to be able to hear His voice. My life is not my own. I am bought at a price.

 

[Judges1318]

This is why people say OSAS = defending sin. You just said "what he stated is not false".... Disgusting.

I would like to point out: What EleventhHour stated here IS NOT the historical position of PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS the Reformed believe. [ @DoY ]
This is something NEW and WEIRD where you can sin and be ok as you just said "what he stated is not false". WOW!

Thats called ANTINOMIANISM. No good, no go. You're doing us all a DISSERVICE with this. Also you cant EVER again say that "you are twisting my words" or "we didnt say that" because you did now. THE CAT is out the bag. All the accusations were TRUE by your own admission. NOT A SMART MOVE.

I would like to highlight to everyone that this is NOT what the Reformed believe. Reformed also you could say calvinist or whatever you want to label it, im talking about the reformation, Luther, Calvin, you name the Reformer or Church that believed in eternal security in the past, NONE OF THEM believed in this type of lawless no transformation powerless Gospel.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!

Finally, their duplicity is exposed.

 

[PennEd]

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!

Finally, their duplicity is exposed.

How is it even possible you cannot see your massive hypocrisy in accusing others of duplicity?

You have been asked many times if you were a former CC member, and have ignored, and refused to answer.

I'll ask again. Have you ever been a member of CC before with a different screen name?

You can just say flat out that you haven't and the question forever goes away. But if you have, and you say you haven't, you have to live with that lie every day.

 

[VCO]

Welcome to the New DECADE!

Maybe it could be the last DECADE!

 

[EleventhHour]

Fruit WILL COME not MAYBE come.

You do realize that "fruit" in many cases is reference to converts to the faith.

When have I ever stated a person who is saved is not "justified" and "sanctified" (set apart)... how is that a powerless gospel.

Settle in your mind there are two aspects to sanctification.

Perseverance of the saints as taught by MacArthur etc., is not supported by scripture.... all it has done is led to finger pointing and fruit inspection... bad enough we have to be inspected that way by the world...now we have the church holding up some nebulous standard of behaviour as a litmus test for salvation.

Where does scripture state we are forced to abide? He calls to to abide.

 

[Chris1975]

You do realize that "fruit" in many cases is reference to converts to the faith.

When have I ever stated a person who is saved is not "justified" and "sanctified" (set apart)... how is that a powerless gospel.

Settle in your mind there are two aspects to sanctification.

Perseverance of the saints as taught by MacArthur etc., is not supported by scripture.... all it has done is led to finger pointing and fruit inspection... bad enough we have to be inspected that way by the world...now we have the church holding up some nebulous standard of behaviour as a litmus test for salvation.

Where does scripture state we are forced to abide? He calls to to abide.

NKJV
Romans 5
5 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; 4 and perseverance, [c]character; and character, hope. 5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

John 15
6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you[b] will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.

 

[EleventhHour]

Happy New Year. It’s 2020 and you’re still saving yourself. You have my sympathies.

You would think people would want to lay down their burden.... the church laid such a burden on me for most of my young life that when I heard the Gospel I was in completely shocked by the simplicity of Jesus... I had no hesitation ... I was like sign me up asap!!!

 

[EleventhHour]

NKJV
Romans 5
5 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; 4 and perseverance, [c]character; and character, hope. 5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

John 15
6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you[b] will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.

Yes instruction on walking in the Spirit ... again a choice.. not automatic.

 

[Lightskin]

A Christian is not sinless

This burns the eyes and sears the pride of worker bee perfectionists. On the other hand people who understand the fullness of God’s grace in Jesus Christ take comfort in His grace.

 

[VCO]

UPDATE: The Children of that Idaho Couple are still missing, and the parents are uncooperative with Authorities.
Apparently, the CULT is a spin-off of the Mormon Church, and they LITERALLY Practice the Doctrine of the Blood Atonement, which came from Brigham Young's teachings, which states, "If you must spill your brothers blood to save his immortal soul, by all means spill it!" One individual has come forward to complain that he was almost a victim of a drive by shooting, from the Cult.

 

[NayborBear]

You NEVER ANSWERED THE QUESTION THAT I ASKED. WHAT DENOMINATION or Style of Church do you go to?

You said a LOT OF WORDS, without answering the QUESTION. Which means you would make a good Democratic Congressmen, and that leaves us questioning that you are actually a Born Again Christian? Give us you testimony, how you were Born Again? AND PLEASE START TO GIVE US EVIDENCE of the new nature of being born again?

Welp? Seeings how you "accused" me so "nicely? And have not the ability of "recognizing" "the Church", I attend?
I'll tell ya!
If I HAVE to put a "Name" to it? And, it "appears" I do? I would "calls" it:
"The Church of the Adopted AND The First Resurrection."
Yet? It's not really so much a "Church" (although, it is), so much as a "Monastery"(more like a "Spiritual school", at the "Highest Levels" of Maturity.), AFFILIATED with (Jesus Christ of Nazareth) and TO "the Name" (HE, who SENT Jesus Christ of Nazareth), that this "Church/Priest University" has been ascribed with!
One doesn't even have to have "accepted", nor even believe in Jesus Christ of Nazareth, to be "SNATCHED!" (that comes later).
One DOES have to have done, what in "God's Eyes", is "just ONE "WORK/S" eek Attributable TOWARDS righteousness!" Much like that which "Abram" did, when he gave a tenth of ALL he had unto Melchizedek.
And, ALL Abram did, was RECOGNIZE, and pay homage to Melchizedek! A Priest of the MOST HIGH GOD!

In "my case", however? (not gonna bore ya with me whole life's story. Most of which, I have borne witness to over the past 4 years, right here in the BDF)
I, all on my own, made up my mind, and "WALKED AWAY" from crack cocaine! COLD TURKEY! Would be the term "some" would use! The "definition" of which, precedes the term "cold turkey", for those not familiar with the term. (has to do, more with "goose bumps", all over the skin, that is on a defeathered turkey. but because is such a "modern" term, heroin addicts use? Is a "street name" for a "frame of reference", as turkeys, are more prevalent these days, more so then geeses!)
.....so there I was, sitting in me living room, watching T.V. Minding me own business, When "all of a sudden" this "feeling of LOVE" started coming inside of me! It FELT great! At the first! "The love of Jesus!" I thought it was! And very well COULD have been. AT THE FIRST!
But, it DIDN'T STOP! It kept on coming and growing and growing in strength and intensity, til It wasn't His "love" "I" was feeling anymore! I was being "turned" inside out! Which is, if, and "when" it happens to YOU? (and it SHALL!) Is pretty downright SCARY! Because you start getting the "live version" in "real time", of what it's like to be a "living" dead man! In one's inability of controlling one's "bodily functions" (G version!)
And, "seeing yourself" melted, and spreading out on the floor, like a thick honey being poured out!
With God, holding your heart, soul, spirit, and mind, in the "palm of His Hand", making you "bare witness" to that which is happening!
In Isaiah 28, is called "the overflowing scourge!"
18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
20 For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.

Other places in the O.T. and N.T. is called the "Great and TERRIBLE Day of the LORD!" And, some places "shortened" to just "The Day of the LORD!"

I have come to "define" this "Event" as: "Great in His LOVE!" (and) "TERRIBLE, in the REVEALINGS!"

(NOT TO WORRY, FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS!....IT'S COMING TO A TOWN "NEAR YOU!")
(won't have to worry about "missing" it, either! God's theater is large enough for the "crowd!" And He will "cancel" any and all "other" appointments, or excuses for one's inability to attend!)

As far as "giving evidence" of "my" being "born again of the Spirit?"

Matthew 19:29
And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

So? The "evidence", and persecution, I, and others like myself receive?
As y'all can't even "recognize" a "hundredfold?"
In "these eyes" anyways, bespeaks "volumes" concerning Spiritual maturity.

This is why I constantly am testifying and baring witness, as are others, to that which God has "shown" me, and (soon to be) them?
Because traditions of man, and precepts of men, have so closed "Spiritual eyes and ears", as to that which God is still trying to say to y'all!

But? "These days", are fast coming to an end!

Btw? I do take offense, concerning what you think are my "political leanings!"

But? ENOUGH about me!

How's about YOU!!????

(is that the sound of chirping crickets I hear?)

 

[NayborBear]

Happy New Year. It’s 2020 and you’re still saving yourself. You have my sympathies.

Happy New Year to you as well!

 

[EleventhHour]

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!

Finally, their duplicity is exposed.

I hold firm to the Gospel ... and as I have told you many times .... sin was dealt with at the cross completely.

What you have is an issue with Grace... take that up with God because it is His Grace you preach against.

Our deeds so not determine our destiny ...it is our faith.... to preach Grace is NOT to sanction sin but to settle one's trust in a Saviour...

Yes that is right a SAVIOUR!!!

To avoid the truth of grace..... from fear that it may give a person the right to sin, one must by necessity teach the opposite of grace which is law.

It is either grace or law.

Paul is very clear the law does not restrain sin.

 

[Lightskin]

not gonna bore ya with me whole life's story

Too late 😉