Not By Works

[oyster67]

Christ is perfect.. we are not perfecting the flesh.. we learn to live out the gift of righteousness that He has already gifted to us.

Amen.

Romans 6
6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
6:13 Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [as] instruments of righteousness unto God.
6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things [is] death.
6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
6:23 For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[BillG]

Bill, I believe the Holy Spirit brings conviction to those he leads. It will pang the heart of a believer, and lead them to confess. Even if its a small inner voice of "Sorry Lord, forgive me, help me to ...." We should never overlook the fact that there is a very real Spirit of Grace that works in us. If there is something that is displeasing to Him, I am fully convinced that He will bring it to our thoughts.

Its what we do with this when He does that is the crux of the matter.

I mean are we, or are we not to trust the Lord. Did we not accept Him by faith? Do we not know that God loves us, no matter what sin we bring to Him? There is depths to His mercy and grace. But the problem is pride - where we believe we are without sin (refusing repentance or confession). That's dangerous.

At times it's fear that is the problem and not pride.

Yes the Holy Spirit will convict a believer.

Goodness knows how many times the Holy Spirit has said to me.

"You didn't get that right did you?

And has I agree that when he has convicted me I hold my hands up.

But I do say "I'm sorry please help to be the person you have called me to be"

 

[Chris1975]

I believe this also

but you still have many sin you may not even know are sins, and if this be, are we lost because we did not confess those sins?

Hallelujah....there is Hope. E-G and I agree on a post .

Sure there are sins leading to death and sins not leading to death. We will always miss the mark on many small things. What I am fully convinced of is not to quench the Spirit when He brings conviction on certain areas of your life. Let Him Lead. Be sure to Heed. Then we will be safe.

 

[Chris1975]

At times it's fear that is the problem and not pride.

Yes the Holy Spirit will convict a believer.

Goodness knows how many times the Holy Spirit has said to me.

"You didn't get that right did you?

And has I agree that when he has convicted me I hold my hands up.

But I do say "I'm sorry please help to be the person you have called me to be"

Then Bill, I don't believe you have a problem whether OSAS or NOSAS. One day we will all know the perfect truth. Just don't reject his voice. That's where I am coming from. And I believe rejecting that voice has far greater implications than what OSAS believers accede to. Therein we have our differences in position.

 

[John146]

Hallelujah....there is Hope. E-G and I agree on a post .

Sure there are sins leading to death and sins not leading to death. We will always miss the mark on many small things. What I am fully convinced of is not to quench the Spirit when He brings conviction on certain areas of your life. Let Him Lead. Be sure to Heed. Then we will be safe.

Poor Paul, for he was the chief of sinners.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hallelujah....there is Hope. E-G and I agree on a post .

Sure there are sins leading to death and sins not leading to death. We will always miss the mark on many small things. What I am fully convinced of is not to quench the Spirit when He brings conviction on certain areas of your life. Let Him Lead. Be sure to Heed. Then we will be safe.

You still will not lose your salvation, otherwise we are under law

Yes, there are sins which you may commit which can lead to death, drinking and driving is one I think of.

 

[oyster67]

Good night everybody, have a Happy New Years

 

[Chris1975]

You still will not lose your salvation, otherwise we are under law

Yes, there are sins which you may commit which can lead to death, drinking and driving is one I think of.

If you are having an affair with another mans wife, be sure to deal with that. Don't die in this state without having a change of heart, mind and behaviour. But I'm sure the Holy Spirit would have let you know this already.....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you are having an affair with another mans wife, be sure to deal with that. Don't die in this state without having a change of heart, mind and behaviour. But I'm sure the Holy Spirit would have let you know this already.....

If this is the case you better be sinless otherwise, there is probably son sin you are in trouble with

good luck meeting that requirement,

we do not put people under a list based on certain sins, we claim all sinners are in danger apart from grace

ie, stop excusing your sin

 

[VCO]

I'm trying to understand: Are you using those scriptures to prove that an unbeliever coming to faith in Christ is not an act of ones will?

Faith is not of yourselves, it is part of the GIFT OF GOD.

It seems like you what to pat yourself on the back, for the FAITH HE PUT IN YOU, and for the spiritual growth in you?

Why do you want to rob JESUS CHRIST of the GLORY that TOTALLY BELONGS TO HIM?

He is how Paul looked at it:

Ephesians 2:4-9 (HCSB)
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love that He had for us,
5 made us alive with the Messiah even though we were dead in trespasses. You are saved by grace!
6 Together with Christ Jesus He also raised us up and seated us in the heavens,
7 so that in the coming ages He might display the immeasurable riches of His grace through ⌊His⌋ kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
9 not from works, so that no one can boast.

Romans 7:18 (HCSB)
18 For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh.
For the desire to do what is good is with me, but there is no ability to do it.

Galatians 2:20-21 (HCSB)
20 and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God,
who loved me and gave Himself for me.
21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing.


Now you tell me, isn't saying I can do that myself, IS the same as setting aside the GRACE OF GOD?

And by saying I no longer live, but Christ lives in me, IS GLORIFYING THE LORD, instead of self?

John 6:44 (NASB)
44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.


In red in your post, "That is what I am saying!"


Joshua 24:15 (NASB)
15 "If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

 

[DoY]

Faith is not of yourselves, it is part of the GIFT OF GOD.

Sorry you must have misunderstood. I'm just asking if a person's will is at all involved when they first accept Christ by grace through faith, since the previous poster was implying that there's no free will involved in coming to salvation.
Chris started a new thread on your separate argument. It would be productive to move your commentary over there.

 

[EleventhHour]

I'm trying to understand: Are you using those scriptures to prove that an unbeliever coming to faith in Christ is not an act of ones will?

Those scriptures are not about saving faith.
One does will belief ....not even apart from truth.

 

[dcontroversal]

Do I understand you correctly? Please clarify if I'm misunderstanding.
You believe that Salvation is "irrevocable" regardless of your actions AFTER you accept Christ?
So, you take the free gift and there's NOTHING you can do to "lose it" if you don't want it any more?
You basically lose your free will because you're "sealed" and it's a done deal?

Irrevocable means exactly that......and if we become faithless HE ABIDES FAITHFUL BECAUSE HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF.....

read the thread, because I will not argue with a fool that believes salvation can be lost or forfeit which contradicts the bible!

 

[dcontroversal]

Ha

Did some one mention DANCE!!

hahahahah and I see we have a new one now......that tap dances around the truth

 

[dcontroversal]

As if someone called 'I love the Pope' is even on here🤣🤣🤣🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Lol, why do you love the Pope??!! He is just a human being, and NOWHERE in the Bible does it tell you to love the Pope... in fact, it says to call no mere human 'Father,' for only God in Heaven is your Father- Matt 23 v9👌🙂❤️

Why did u direct this at me?

 

[dcontroversal]

@dcontroversal can we get to 6000 pages before 2020?

That is the question on my mind ... I am thinking "yes" because the workers never take a day off!!

Now you being ahead of us could be our winning card.

Hahahahahah we can hope hey haha

 

[EleventhHour]

Those scriptures are not about saving faith.
One does will belief ....not even apart from truth.

Oops... one does NOT will belief

 

[DoY]

Irrevocable means exactly that......and if we become faithless HE ABIDES FAITHFUL BECAUSE HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF.....

read the thread, because I will not argue with a fool that believes salvation can be lost or forfeit which contradicts the bible!

Wow, I'm so sorry that you feel the need to start name-calling. You can be certain that the Lord will never revoke the free gift of salvation He extended to you. I most certainly agree with you on that point. I also pray that you will never stray from your focus on Him and thereby embark on a slippery slope of estrangement from Him either.

 

[Chris1975]

If this is the case you better be sinless otherwise, there is probably son sin you are in trouble with

good luck meeting that requirement,

we do not put people under a list based on certain sins, we claim all sinners are in danger apart from grace

ie, stop excusing your sin

This was a very simple example. A very practical case that happens daily in the world, and unfortunately in the church. A Christian man has after a number of years begun an affair with another mans wife. Unrepentant, he dies.

You, by your own words have quoted 1 John 3 4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

Yet confronted with the above scenario, you cannot bring acknowledgement of the practicality of the verses you have quoted. And the reason you cant is because of the house of cards which will come collapsing down on the OSAS fallacy.

1 John 1
6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

We look at the 1 John 1 passage above. This man did not confess his sins (probably because he didn't see need to because he thought that nothing could affect his salvation, because he was taught and believed that his conversion 15 years ago was a done deal and secure ticket into heaven). So he didn't see the need for repentance, because, hey, he repented 15 years ago, right?

This is the danger with the OSAS doctrine. Its not scriptural. You think you understand the passages about eternal security but you have misunderstood their application. You are not on solid ground but thin ice.

 

[EleventhHour]

Wow, I'm so sorry that you feel the need to start name-calling. You can be certain that the Lord will never revoke the free gift of salvation He extended to you. I most certainly agree with you on that point. I also pray that you will never stray from your focus on Him and thereby embark on a slippery slope of estrangement from Him either.

What do you mean by "estrangement?"