Not By Works

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VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#119,521
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
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#119,521
DoY said:
If only OSAS proponents would make that clear from the start - that good works/obedience flow from gratitude and love. Unfortunately many don't and now we have this perverse complacency in the church, and a false belief that continued sin is ok.
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#119,509 Please read my post. That is the only Position I have heart from the Pulpit in every one of the OSAS Churches that I have been involved with; and we moved a lot over the years, to small towns. And every OSAS Church taught that Obedience was Part of the LOVE that GOD had the Holy Spirit pour into our hearts (human spirit), Rom. 5:5. It seem Strange to me, that almost everyone of the Anti-OSAS, think we teach, it is okay to sin after we are Saved. I HAVE NEVER FOUND THAT TO BE TRUE, IN ANY CHURCH that I have been involved with. WERE ARE THEY GETTING THEIR FALSE INFORMATION ? ? ? My guess, it comes from their Pulpit, and they teacher only has suspicions about what we TEACH, and then proceeds to portray those Suspicions as Facts.

Obedience is PART OF LOVE, and never has been part of SALVATION.
 
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#119,522
Feb 15, 2017
9,037
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#119,522
Just a question to ask.

If a person believes that wilfully sinning means that we lose are our salvation does it negate the following?

1 John 1:9-10
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

After all when we sin it's willful.

Another question what is the meaning of the word 'confess?
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#119,523
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#119,523
BillG said:
Why have you said "Never let the sun go down upon your wrath?
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Because we should never let the sun go down upon our wrath?:unsure:

Ephesians 4
4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
4:25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#119,524
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
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#119,524
DoY said:
Please, please back this up with Scripture.
Click to expand...

2 Corinthians 3:5 (HCSB)
5 ⌊It is⌋ not that we are competent in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our competence is from God.

Philippians 2:13 (HCSB)
13 For it is God who is working in you, ⌊enabling you⌋ both to desire and to work out His good purpose.
 
DoY

DoY

Member
#119,525
Dec 22, 2019
31
27
18
#119,525
VCO said:
#119,509 Please read my post. That is the only Position I have heart from the Pulpit in every one of the OSAS Churches that I have been involved with; and we moved a lot over the years, to small towns. And every OSAS Church taught that Obedience was Part of the LOVE that GOD had the Holy Spirit pour into our hearts (human spirit), Rom. 5:5. It seem Strange to me, that almost everyone of the Anti-OSAS, think we teach, it is okay to sin after we are Saved. I HAVE NEVER FOUND THAT TO BE TRUE, IN ANY CHURCH that I have been involved with. WERE ARE THEY GETTING THEIR FALSE INFORMATION ? ? ? My guess, it comes from their Pulpit, and they teacher only has suspicions about what we TEACH, and then proceeds to portray those Suspicions as Facts.

Obedience is PART OF LOVE, and never has been part of SALVATION.
Click to expand...
Praise God you have been largely spared. Unfortunately I haven't. Our family left a church where, amongst other things, the pastor stood on the pulpit and said he could commit murder tomorrow and it would be ok. He was adamantly OSAS and still is. There are extremes in Christianity for certain and we must vehemently guard against the truth being twisted into something false. I think it's important to present a complete message, whether OSAS or NOSAS, and beware not to leave sloppy "loopholes" that confuse new believers. (I'm speaking in general and not referring to you in particular.) This is great training ground for that. God bless you in your walk and may you be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding. (Colossians 1:9)
 
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#119,526
Feb 15, 2017
9,037
4,456
113
#119,526
oyster67 said:
Because we should never let the sun go down upon our wrath?:unsure:

Ephesians 4
4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
4:25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
Click to expand...
Of course we should not.
I was just a bit confused as to why you added that at the end of your post concerning wilfully sinning.

I would have quoted v27

Ephesians 4:27
27 for anger gives a foothold to the devil.
 
DoY

DoY

Member
#119,527
Dec 22, 2019
31
27
18
#119,527
VCO said:
2 Corinthians 3:5 (HCSB)
5 ⌊It is⌋ not that we are competent in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our competence is from God.

Philippians 2:13 (HCSB)
13 For it is God who is working in you, ⌊enabling you⌋ both to desire and to work out His good purpose.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to understand: Are you using those scriptures to prove that an unbeliever coming to faith in Christ is not an act of ones will?
 
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#119,530
Feb 15, 2017
9,037
4,456
113
#119,530
DoY said:
Praise God you have been largely spared. Unfortunately I haven't. Our family left a church where, amongst other things, the pastor stood on the pulpit and said he could commit murder tomorrow and it would be ok. He was adamantly OSAS and still is. There are extremes in Christianity for certain and we must vehemently guard against the truth being twisted into something false. I think it's important to present a complete message, whether OSAS or NOSAS, and beware not to leave sloppy "loopholes" that confuse new believers. (I'm speaking in general and not referring to you in particular.) This is great training ground for that. God bless you in your walk and may you be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding. (Colossians 1:9)
Click to expand...
Very sad that the pastor says that.
Even sadder that you were in that church.

What church was it you went to that preached that?
 
Chris1975

Chris1975

Senior Member
#119,531
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
517
113
#119,531
preacher4truth said:
The context is his offering his blood and life.
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I believe you are wrong on this.

Hebrews 10
29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

The believer is the one who is sanctified.
 
Chris1975

Chris1975

Senior Member
#119,532
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
517
113
#119,532
BillG said:
Just a question to ask.

If a person believes that wilfully sinning means that we lose are our salvation does it negate the following?

1 John 1:9-10
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

After all when we sin it's willful.

Another question what is the meaning of the word 'confess?
Click to expand...
Great question (y)(y)(y). Those in Hebrews 10v26 are those who don't yield to Spirit in the 1 John 1v9-10 passage that you have posted above.
 
Chris1975

Chris1975

Senior Member
#119,533
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
517
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#119,533
Chris1975 said:
Great question (y)(y)(y). Those in Hebrews 10v26 are those who don't yield to Spirit in the 1 John 1v9-10 passage that you have posted above.
Click to expand...
Those who willfully sin are those who reject confession of their sins. They reject repentance (i.e. not willing to change their minds about their sins, feel that "Its OK God will overlook what I do".)
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#119,535
#119,535
Chris1975 said:
Those who willfully sin are those who reject confession of their sins. They reject repentance (i.e. not willing to change their minds about their sins, feel that "Its OK God will overlook what I do".)
Click to expand...
You have much contempt sinners I think... I myself know I am a sinner saved by grace.
 
Chris1975

Chris1975

Senior Member
#119,536
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
517
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#119,536
•Quote from William Wilberforce: “When we fix our gaze on Jesus, we see in the most vivid colours how hateful sin is to the perfect holiness of God. It takes unthinkable vanity to believe that God will not treat unrepentant sin harshly when we see what it cost him to provide forgiveness.”
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#119,539
#119,539
DoY said:
Praise God you have been largely spared. Unfortunately I haven't. Our family left a church where, amongst other things, the pastor stood on the pulpit and said he could commit murder tomorrow and it would be ok. He was adamantly OSAS and still is. There are extremes in Christianity for certain and we must vehemently guard against the truth being twisted into something false. I think it's important to present a complete message, whether OSAS or NOSAS, and beware not to leave sloppy "loopholes" that confuse new believers. (I'm speaking in general and not referring to you in particular.) This is great training ground for that. God bless you in your walk and may you be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding. (Colossians 1:9)
Click to expand...
That pastor will get his..he is out of line no one would even think of kurdering someone
I pray you do not run from a whole group of people due to one bad apple that does not even know us
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#119,540
#119,540
Chris1975 said:
If I had contempt for sinners, then I wouldn't warn them. Think on that.
Click to expand...
It does no good to warn if your message is in error came to give them life and freedom. Not to make them slaves if they do what he says
 
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