Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,020
4,439
113
Yes. And it must be repented of, lest it become a lifestlyle and the heart become hardened to the point where the conscience is seared as with a hot iron. 'Willful' is the keyword. Never let the sun go down upon your wrath.
Is not the willful sin a conscious rejection of Jesus and his sacrifice?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Sadly, I've seen this reasoning pop up only when this doctrine is challenged by Scripture. Teaching "eternal security" without the complete message is irresponsible. The dangerous risk is that it confuses new believers into complacency. I used to be one of those deceived. Praise God for opening my eyes to the truth of His pure Word in context, instead of single verses to confirm an incomplete man-made bias.

Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar,
and the truth is not in him.
But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him.
By this we know that we are in Him.
He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
(1 John 2:3-6)
Sadly we have far to many people reject eternal security and excuse their own sin
what sins are you trying to excuse as not worthy of death remembering that if you keep the whole law yet stumble in one point you are guilty of all
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
@dcontroversal can we get to 6000 pages before 2020?:unsure:

That is the question on my mind ... I am thinking "yes" because the workers never take a day off!!

Now you being ahead of us could be our winning card. ;)
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,020
4,439
113
Yes. And it must be repented of, lest it become a lifestlyle and the heart become hardened to the point where the conscience is seared as with a hot iron. 'Willful' is the keyword. Never let the sun go down upon your wrath.
Why have you said "Never let the sun go down upon your wrath?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
I just think that it shows that there are hyper-ditches on both sides of the road.

There are only two roads, and both say this way to heaven, many on the wrong road, and few on the Narrow road.
Only one way will get you there, and that is FULL TRUST in JESUS is true road thru the Narrow Gate.
The other way is a deception, that will put some Trust on SELF, and it will put you on the road to destruction in Hades/Hell.

Matthew 7:13-14 (NASB)
13 "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
14 "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.


Does OSAS believe in Obedience? ABSOLUTELY, but it has nothing to do with our SALVATION, it is Part of the LOVE for GOD and the Brethren. Where does that LOVE come from? It is NOT the love we can generate in ourselves, it is LOVE HE PUT IN US, when we were Born Again.


Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,097
3,683
113
Then they have the Holy Spirit. For He will lead them into all truth.
The Holy Spirit will lead one to all truth in Scripture? Why read Scripture? Why study? All one needs is the Holy Spirit right? The Holy Spirit guides one to the truth as one studies the word of truth.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
517
113
The Holy Spirit will lead one to all truth in Scripture? Why read Scripture? Why study? All one needs is the Holy Spirit right? The Holy Spirit guides one to the truth as one studies the word of truth.
In the same way someone without a bible in prison in the middle of China can be led by the Spirit. Because the law is written on the heart.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,097
3,683
113
So someone becomes a born again child of God, commits willful sin, loses their salvation, repents, and then get's their salvation back?
Sure, I’ve been saved 256,805 times throughout my life so far, and counting.😜
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,097
3,683
113
In the same way someone without a bible in prison in the middle of China can be led by the Spirit. Because the law is written on the heart.
Why are we commanded to study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth?
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
So someone becomes a born again child of God, commits willful sin, loses their salvation, repents, and then get's their salvation back?
That is a pretty dangerous and reckless way to travel. I am not going to go out on that limb. I'm sure that you have no intention of doing so either. Too much time spent on hypotheticals. Lets just agree on seeking a closer daily walk with Jesus, and we will all be OK.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,020
4,439
113
Where does it say that?
Jesus said that he had to go back to the Father so that Holy Spirit must come to convict the world of its sin, that sin being unbelief in him.

That sin was unbelief in him.
So if a person rejects Jesus they reject his sacrifice for the forgiveness for our sins that reconciles us to the Father.

That's what I think wilfully sinning is addressed in Hebrews.

The Hebrews under persecution looking to go back to the law.

Any sin we commit is wilffull.
We have no excuse.

Hebrews 10:11-29
11 And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,
16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” 17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” 18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.
Hold Fast Your Confession
19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and having a High Priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.
The Just Live by Faith
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?