Not By Works

[gb9]

I answered your question.

and here is the legalist response-" I answered your question'


but, you gave no answer. you guys sure do love to preach, but you clam up when asked a question.


they say you are ralph. if so, did you not get proven wrong enough the first time you were here???? back to have your lordship salvation garbage debunked some more??

 

[mailmandan]

So do the rest of us.

I'll be honest with you. With the exception of these rogue examples you keep bringing up (Mormons, etc.) everybody here believes like you do..

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

If our continually surrendered life bears fruit, we will be seen by the Father as Christ! (That's being justified by Faith and faithing).

What are you talking about? You and the others here have the same understanding, (believe and recieve). You all belong together on this wide path. I come by once in a while to see if anyone has woke up yet.

 

[Discern]

and here is the legalist response-" I answered your question'


but, you gave no answer. you guys sure do love to preach, but you clam up when asked a question.


they say you are ralph. if so, did you not get proven wrong enough the first time you were here???? back to have your lordship salvation garbage debunked some more??

I think all justified believers are in the process of purging out the leaven. We will be perfected when we see Him just as He is.

 

[Judges1318]

There are many on this forum who think in either the same way or very similar. We have even come across people saying that it is not necessary to CONTINUE to BELIEVE. Can you imagine.

No, can't imagine, but it's happening right now in the church. Big time!

30 years ago it was not even remotely considered that a person could stop believing and still be saved. A believer was saved and an unbeliever was not saved, period. No need to even talk about once saved always saved. Everybody understood and agreed that an unbeliever was in no way, shape, or form saved.

 

[Discern]

No, can't imagine, but it's happening right now in the church. Big time!

30 years ago it was not even remotely considered that a person could stop believing and still be saved..

IF that is true... I'm not sure, but I do know that there were a lot of Eternal Security believers back then. Like I said, not all Eternal Security people hold that position.

 

[Judges1318]

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

I'm quite sure about it.
Nobody here that is reasonable thinks works literally purchase salvation as if it's wages owed for work performed. They are like you and me. They believe that real faith has works attached, or else it isn't real faith.

 

[Judges1318]

IF that is true... there were a lot of Eternal Security believers back then

I know you mean 'eternal security' as once saved always saved defines that. But read carefully what I said.
I said it was not even remotely considered that a person could stop believing and still be saved. I did not say it was not even remotely considered that a person could stop believing. Those of us outside of Calvinist leaning churches knew that much.

 

[Judges1318]

IF that is true... I'm not sure, but I do know that there were a lot of Eternal Security believers back then. Like I said, not all Eternal Security people hold that position.

For example, your story, which was not uncommon, was understood that you came back to salvation, not that you were somehow saved no matter what during your fallen time. Whether you lost it during that time was not even the point. The point was you came back to your salvation. Which we all understood was necessary for you to do to be saved in the end.

 

[Judges1318]

The real problem in this thread are the people who think real faith, in the end, doesn't have to have works attached to it. To me that's a red flag that they ain't doing so well in the obedience department. Not that it's a cake walk anyway, but I gets the feeling they be living in the world more than they be living in Christ.

I can't judge, but I can discern who I think is a brother/ sister and who I think is not. I don't have to receive everybody as a brother or sister just because they say they are a brother/ sister. Especially if their doctrine says they don't have to have works to be saved and that barren, thorny fields will be saved when Christ returns despite what the Bible so plainly says to the contrary.

 

[Judges1318]

and here is the legalist response-" I answered your question'

Did you not read my answer to your question?

 

[Judges1318]

This subject touches the apple of so many people's eyes. And, honestly, I think it's because they're not living victorious Christian lives. And if that's true, it doesn't have to be that way. But adopting an ear tickling doctrine about sin and salvation is not the right answer to the problem. Luke 18:13-14 is.

13“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

But I know there are people who simply will not humble themselves this way. They will go the way of Cain and hate and kill the person who's actions are righteous (by God's grace) while their's are not.

"Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous." - 1 John 3:12

It's an absolute mystery to me that I take to God in prayer all the time how people can know the problem, and yet, out of what appears to be sheer pride not be able to humble themselves the way the tax collector did, and receive mercy, and power to live for him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people - not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you." (Deuteronomy 17:7;19:19;21:21;22:21;22:21,24;24:7)

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers no male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the Kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 5:9-13; 6:9-11

The Holy Spirit through Paul. No longer interested in Talmud, religious traditions, be they Jewish or Christian, he is interested in changed people IN REALITY brought from sin to sanctification by the grace and power of God. Circumcision is of the heart in this everlasting covenant. Anyone whose heart is uncircumcised will be cut of from his people; he has broken the covenant.

He is not a Jew who is one outwardly, neither is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God. Romans 2:28,29

I am interested in the church being presented to Christ as a pure virgin. That's what Paul was so extremely concerned with. False doctrines by which people pretend they are "pure virgins" already are in league with Satan's purposes in the earth.

You missed my who point
far to many of yu are like Saul. You boast of how righteous you are. You preach about how all you deem to be sinners stop sin (while ignoring your own sin) you puff yourself up to be something you are not. You last in rules. Not love.
saul repented, and became paul, he stopped boasting about how great he thought he was, he still considered himself a chief of sinners, he refused to buy into a works based self righteous gospel, which he called foolish and turned to a gospel of grace which he used to empower his faith and his walk. Knowing no matter how much he messes up (and he claimed to mess up a lot) God was still his father and would never leave nor forsake him.

you people want to make yourselves what your not, you claim to have faith in God, yet it is known and seen by all your faith is in yourself.
turn from your sin (yes your sin) turn to Christ, and become like Paul. Move away from your Salish gospel, and pray God knocks you off whatever is carrying you on your way do Damascus.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If the 'you' is Chris1975, I think he sees works in salvation the same way you do. Works accompany true salvation just as Hebrews 6:9 says, and which you affirm:

"Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are convinced of better things in your case—the things that have to do with salvation."

And, if you, in the end, don't have the works that accompany salvation, being a fruitless field, you will be burned.

"land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned." Hebrews 6:8

I don't know why he can believe all that and he has to be labeled a works salvationist, but when you believe it, you're not a works salvationist. I don't believe he, or anyone else presently participating in this thread, is saying works literally purchase salvation as if it was the wages earned for doing good works.

This is nothing but a works based gospel

james said if one claimed to have faith but has no works.

many a believer will get to heaven with nothing but wood hay and straw (meaning very few works were accomplished) yet still be saved.

you have that person as being saved, made live, born again, then losing salvation because he failed to live up to some standard.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It's not hard to understand. It's just hard for you to ACCEPT. John 1:12 - But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name.

Acts 10:43 - "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.

1 Corinthians 1:21 - For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

This sounds very arrogant and you are not the judge here.

If your only continued purpose here is to pervert the gospel by distorting Pisteuo, then you might as well leave. If you are ready to wake up and accept the truth, then feel free to stay. BTW: So where do you draw the line in the sand in regards to obtaining salvation based on having sufficiently surrendered to Christ “enough” and your life inspired by such surrender “measures up” according to your pet definition and personal understanding of Pisteuo which led you to create the make believe word, "Faithing?"

Is he still talking?.

 

[Judges1318]

If we sin with apparent impunity and don't get chastised, we are not sons.

BINGO!

That's kind of what I was gettin' at.
They talk a good talk about how they can live in sin if they want. But that they'll get thumped if they do......but they never do.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm not sure of everyone's exact position here and I'll let Dcontroversal speak for himself, but I can say that the things you are claiming to be held are not the positions of the majority of people who believe in Eternal Security.

He is a worker through and through, he rejects the grace of God, and is a danger to Gods plan

if you can not see this by now. You need to look harder.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It says, 'for those who have been trained by it'. vs.11
Not everybody responds to correction and discipline.

good To know you think you can withstand the chastening of God, And just continue to go as you wish,

 

[EleventhHour]

The passage in discussion is a somber warning to those who can sin with impunity and not get "thumped". If you are a Christian, and you try to sin with impunity, you're going to get thumped. The world can try to sin with impunity and not get thumped in the present time, (they are storing up wrath for the day of wrath), but not a Christian. If we sin with apparent impunity and don't get chastised, we are not sons.

Sin has its own consequences.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

He does not believe as we do. Not even close

 

[EleventhHour]

He is a worker through and through, he rejects the grace of God, and is a danger to Gods plan

if you can not see this by now. You need to look harder.

Agree and very tired of his horrible message.
Perhaps time for a sabbatical for me.