What is your BEST PROOF for a pre-trib Rapture?

[DeighAnn]

You are hysterical. The generation He was talking about was the one He was in!!! He wasn't talking about some future generation. Where does He say, "thousands of years from now there will be a wicked generation and all this pertains to them?"

Look back one chapter to Mat 23. Are you able to pick up on who He is talking to and to whom things will happen? Or do you think He will punish our generation for the evil of those in His day???

34 Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, 35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

Our generation isn't killing prophets and wise men, at least not in this country. Our generation had nothing to do with murdering these OT people.

No, I believe that God will render unto each INDIVIDUAL what they deserve.

Matthew 23
Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do but do not ye after their works for they say, and do not.
For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ and all ye are brethren
And call no man your father upon the earth for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Neither be ye called masters for one is your Master, even Christ.
But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.
Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

THE SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN
And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?


Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes and some of them ye shall kill and crucify and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city
That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar

Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
Does it say when??

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.



And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. When does this happen? 70ad?? If so, does that mean it could not happen again when His feet touch the Mount? What does its placement here suggest ?

THEN
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be?

and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

THE FIRST WARNING, SEAL THIS IN YOUR MIND FIRST AND FORMOST BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT IT IS ALL ABOUT
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet

 

[PlainWord]

To kill the prophets is to kills the prophecy . . as in all things written in the law and the prophets .Signified by Moses and Elias .To kill prophecy it is to silence the gospel causing a famine for hearing the word of prophecy. God's word. .

The thousand years according to that signified language (the language of revelation) represents a unknown. Trying to literalize the source of faith (the unseen) It destroys the meaning of the rest of the parable. The word thousand years is used to represent a unknow . The word thousand tied in with others, like food or mountains or love also represents a unknow mystery revealed in the parable.

Mankind make the same mistake with the parable of the rich man missing the unseen spiritual understanding, purposely hid from those who have no faith as that which is needed to understand.

Where in the passage I quoted do you find 1000 years? So it is okay to add unrelated passages to unrelated passages to make stuff up now? The 1000 years of Rev 20 has absolutely NOTHING to do with what Jesus says in Mat 23 and 24. The 1,000 years of Rev 20 dealt with our age, the Church age. He was speaking about what would happen to His generation, not some future generation thousand(s) of years into the future.

Some future generation had nothing to do with killing prophesy, especially prophesy that was about to be fulfilled in His era. Jesus was talking about literal past prophets, and he names some of them, who the Jewish religious order killed. Then He spoke of his disciples who they would kill and that the blood of all of these would be on them!! Not us!! Good grief people - READ!!

 

[PlainWord]

No, I believe that God will render unto each INDIVIDUAL what they deserve.

Matthew 23
Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do but do not ye after their works for they say, and do not.
For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ and all ye are brethren
And call no man your father upon the earth for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Neither be ye called masters for one is your Master, even Christ.
But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.
Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

THE SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN
And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?


Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes and some of them ye shall kill and crucify and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city
That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar

Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
Does it say when??

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.



And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. When does this happen? 70ad?? If so, does that mean it could not happen again when His feet touch the Mount? What does its placement here suggest ?

THEN
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be?

and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

THE FIRST WARNING, SEAL THIS IN YOUR MIND FIRST AND FORMOST BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT IT IS ALL ABOUT
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet

There is no hope for you. You copy and paste the entire passage but still don't understand one word of it. In Mat 23, Jesus is confronting those who were literally about to hang Him on the Cross and He had some very choice words, and predictions, for them but you take it and spin it into some future generation thousands of years later and apply it to us. UNBELIEVABLE!! Talk about killing prophesy. Congrats, you killed it!!

 

[PlainWord]

That would be your choice. You may "laugh out loud" all you want, but it still doesn't change the truth in the Word of God.

Yes, I do believe it is about "was" and not about "is" just as I believe in "is to come" because I believe people are willingly ignorant of and BY THEIR VERY OWN WORKS PROVE

2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

2 Peter 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water

2 Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, PERISHED

A good example of Perished, wouldn't you say? Or what is it you would need to add to
Jeremiah 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
Jeremiah 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
Jeremiah 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
Jeremiah 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Jeremiah 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate yet will I not make a full end.


2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2 Peter 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

The day of the Lord does not come as a thief in the night to all, only upon those who have not studied to show themselves approved.

As a watchman, the only thing I am responsible for it to put forth GODS TRUTH, keeping the blood off my hands. Now I've given it to you. What happens past that? It's your choice.

Gods Judgement is going to start with those who "teach" and we, as in YOU AND I, are not only held responsible for ourselves, but all those we reach. Best be praying you are teaching HIS TRUTH and not some "false doctrine". I am good with that. I am ready to be held responsible for all that I put forth as THE WORD OF GOD as to truth of it. I feel that being in the flesh for a hundred years is already way to long to be away from God, (physically) and the thought of hearing "I never knew you" with the addition of another 1000 yrs is the most terrifying thought I ever have.

You may do as you like and jump from one verse in one place to another in another place and make it fit into what ever meaning you would like, but as for me I am only seeking what the Word of God is saying, not trying to make the Word of God fit into what I think it should say therefore free to let God lead me where He will.
Your mocking does nothing but strengthen my faith as to the truth of Gods Word.

Here you go again, quoting a passage that was precising fulfilled in 70 AD. 2 Peter 3 was all about the end times of Israel, NOT OUR FUTURE. They were in their last days, not us!! See Heb 1:2. I am teaching you the truth but sadly, you've bought all the lies and traditions of the modern church as it relates to prophesy.

I am glad I am strengthening your faith. Was trying to strengthen your understanding of first century prophesy and its fulfillment so you wouldn't be out there, with the others, terrifying people into thinking that there is some great tribulation and bogeyman coming to stamp our hands and foreheads, when there isn't.

You've proved your lack of understanding by your interpretation of Jer 4. I tried to show you that this passage was about the first desolation of Judea and Jerusalem at the hands of Babylon and that God would wipe their slate clean, as if it was before creation. The prophets used lots of colorful figurative language to illustrate their points. This writing style is called, "Apocalyptic Literature" and was in wide use for centuries. I know this is a complete waste of time but I will try to educate you what Peter was discussing in 2 Peter 3. He was discussing the final moments of Titus' destruction of the temple and city.

HEAVENS = TEMPLE
EARTH = ISRAEL/JERUSALEM
WORKS - THINGS BUILT BY MAN (IN THIS CASE)

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

Our universe is not dissolving, at least no time soon. This is how they spoke in grandiose terms. It was a really big deal to them that their country, city, temple and majority of their people were to be wiped off the map. The below is Josephus writing the fulfillment of Peter's prophesy using similar language.

The flame was also carried a long way, and made an echo, together with the groans of those that were slain; and because this hill was high, and the works at the temple were very great, one would have thought the whole city had been on fire. Nor can one imagine anything either greater or more terrible than this noise; for there was at once a shout of the Roman legions, who were marching all together, and a sad clamor of the seditious, who were now surrounded with fire and sword. Josephus War 6-5-1.

 

[DeighAnn]

Where in the passage I quoted do you find 1000 years? So it is okay to add unrelated passages to unrelated passages to make stuff up now? The 1000 years of Rev 20 has absolutely NOTHING to do with what Jesus says in Mat 23 and 24. The 1,000 years of Rev 20 dealt with our age, the Church age. He was speaking about what would happen to His generation, not some future generation thousand(s) of years into the future.

Some future generation had nothing to do with killing prophesy, especially prophesy that was about to be fulfilled in His era. Jesus was talking about literal past prophets, and he names some of them, who the Jewish religious order killed. Then He spoke of his disciples who they would kill and that the blood of all of these would be on them!! Not us!! Good grief people - READ!!

ONCE AGAIN, "No, I believe that God will render unto each INDIVIDUAL what they deserve".

Your belief that Satan showed up in the sky as seen by??? how ever long ago??? renders EVERYTHING different in our understanding of the events of the bible. So lets just leave it at that. We will absolutely know for sure, soon. So lets just do what the bible instructs and move on away from this debate.

 

[DeighAnn]

Here you go again, quoting a passage that was precising fulfilled in 70 AD. 2 Peter 3 was all about the end times of Israel, NOT OUR FUTURE. They were in their last days, not us!! See Heb 1:2. I am teaching you the truth but sadly, you've bought all the lies and traditions of the modern church as it relates to prophesy.

I am glad I am strengthening your faith. Was trying to strengthen your understanding of first century prophesy and its fulfillment so you wouldn't be out there, with the others, terrifying people into thinking that there is some great tribulation and bogeyman coming to stamp our hands and foreheads, when there isn't.

You've proved your lack of understanding by your interpretation of Jer 4. I tried to show you that this passage was about the first desolation of Judea and Jerusalem at the hands of Babylon and that God would wipe their slate clean, as if it was before creation. The prophets used lots of colorful figurative language to illustrate their points. This writing style is called, "Apocalyptic Literature" and was in wide use for centuries. I know this is a complete waste of time but I will try to educate you what Peter was discussing in 2 Peter 3. He was discussing the final moments of Titus' destruction of the temple and city.

HEAVENS = TEMPLE
EARTH = ISRAEL/JERUSALEM
WORKS - THINGS BUILT BY MAN (IN THIS CASE)

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

Our universe is not dissolving, at least no time soon. This is how they spoke in grandiose terms. It was a really big deal to them that their country, city, temple and majority of their people were to be wiped off the map. The below is Josephus writing the fulfillment of Peter's prophesy using similar language.

The flame was also carried a long way, and made an echo, together with the groans of those that were slain; and because this hill was high, and the works at the temple were very great, one would have thought the whole city had been on fire. Nor can one imagine anything either greater or more terrible than this noise; for there was at once a shout of the Roman legions, who were marching all together, and a sad clamor of the seditious, who were now surrounded with fire and sword. Josephus War 6-5-1.

If you don't believe what the Word says is going to happen is going to happen then, ???? I do.

 

[Melach]

I provided the scripture and the explanation for it about 1/3 the way down in my post, where I had started with the words "...the equation (in the above) being..."

...so check out that part and see "where" I got it from (for I "explain" it there).

I can try to elaborate if you still need me to, after you read what I'd already put. Thx.

sure thanks i dont understand what this means:

Ezekiel 4 minus 2 Chronicles 36:21 times Leviticus 26 equals 2520 years"

i understand it now actually. thats amazing prophecy so acccurate it matches those 1967 and 1948 wow. its most definately of God its a miracle they are there.

is that based on the year to day principle what you said? in my language bible is said different than in all english bibles i look at in those verses

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ Melach, NO it is not based on the "day-to-year principle," and I said as much in my Post #893 (on the page prior to this present one).

Check out what I said there (about that): https://christianchat.com/threads/what-is-your-best-proof-for-a-pre-trib-rapture.188798/post-4116200

 

[garee]

Where in the passage I quoted do you find 1000 years? So it is okay to add unrelated passages to unrelated passages to make stuff up now? The 1000 years of Rev 20 has absolutely NOTHING to do with what Jesus says in Mat 23 and 24. The 1,000 years of Rev 20 dealt with our age, the Church age. He was speaking about what would happen to His generation, not some future generation thousand(s) of years into the future.



Some future generation had nothing to do with killing prophesy, especially prophesy that was about to be fulfilled in His era. Jesus was talking about literal past prophets, and he names some of them, who the Jewish religious order killed. Then He spoke of his disciples who they would kill and that the blood of all of these would be on them!! Not us!! Good grief people - READ!!

The metaphor 1000 years (a unknown) represents the last days. God does not number days or people. We are not of the number as if we walked by sight. . We walk by faith the unseen eternal.

Prophets continue to be killed. Its a sign of the times corruption. The whole period under the Sun. It seems to have begun on day 4..

The first prophet killed as a martyr was Abel.

Killing prophets that bring the gospel will be continual till the last day . This is when death the letter of the law will be cast into the lake of fire .Until then the letter of the law will do its work of showing men they are dead in their trespasses and sin without hope or God in this present world .

Like many words. The word generation is used in more than one way. Another warning so the father of lies does not get a foot hold and would try and limit the word generation (beginning like the word genesis.) leaving other usages of a word out in order to take away the understanding..

Its all related.

He is speaking of the generation of the last days which is spoken of throughout the Bible. .It began at the time of Christ. The time of reformation .When Christ said; "It is finished". .A time period governed by a unknown, signified as a thousand years according to the signified tongue of Revelation used as a parable.

It is important to study the different uses of the word generation

Matthew 11:16 King James Version But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,


Matthew 12:34 King James Version O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.


Matthew 12:39 King James Version But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

Matthew 12:41 King James Version The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

There above it shows those in respect to the time period of Nineveh rising on the last day to receive the promise of the new incorruptible bodies, condemning the generation of Adam .

The last days leading toward the last day

Genesis 49:1 King James Version And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days.

Hebrews 1:2 King James Version Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Not the generation of family. Grandparents till the next generation that some call twenty years.

Not the generation of Adam, the evil generation of natural unconverted mankind alone but all of mankind a mixture of those from the generation of Christ the born again generation and that of Adam unconverted mankind.

The timing, the "last day" singular (not days) is when in the twinkling of the eye the generation of Nineveh along with the generation of the queen of the south will rise with those reigning with Christ on earth and receive their new promised incorruptible bodies .

Therefore pronouncing judgment on the generation of Adam

Six times in John alone he used the phrase "last day" or the "day of the Lord" to emphasize the nature of generation . . It will bring in the last generation in the new heavens and earth.

John 12:48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[garee]

There is no hope for you. You copy and paste the entire passage but still don't understand one word of it. In Mat 23, Jesus is confronting those who were literally about to hang Him on the Cross and He had some very choice words, and predictions, for them but you take it and spin it into some future generation thousands of years later and apply it to us. UNBELIEVABLE!! Talk about killing prophesy. Congrats, you killed it!!

The warning is applied to us, the generation of Christ in respect to them that went out from us. The generations of Adam .(mankind)

The only problem I would have with that is in Mat 23, Jesus is confronting those who were literally about to hang Him on the Cross. They did not stop persecuting Christ, when Christ said it is finished. But as a generation of Adam it will continue till the last day. Killing the followers to take away the gospel. Killing prophecy.

The death on the cross did not put end to persecution. And they were not the author.. The first generation of persecutors of Christ. the Holy Spirit is the generation of Adam, as to those who persecuted Christ. . . beginning with Cain and Abel.

 

[PlainWord]

ONCE AGAIN, "No, I believe that God will render unto each INDIVIDUAL what they deserve".

Your belief that Satan showed up in the sky as seen by??? how ever long ago??? renders EVERYTHING different in our understanding of the events of the bible. So lets just leave it at that. We will absolutely know for sure, soon. So lets just do what the bible instructs and move on away from this debate.

Happy to end our debate. As seen by those alive at the time as it was recorded in history. Right, our understanding could not be more different. We live our lives, we die, we go to heaven. There is nothing in our future foretold left remaining to happen.

 

[PlainWord]

If you don't believe what the Word says is going to happen is going to happen then, ???? I do.

No. I believe it happened, just as Christ said it would, to His generation. History records all of it. There is nothing predicted about our future yet to happen.

 

[Absolutely]

Why wont any of you Rapturist answer my question about Ezek.37?

EZEKIEL 37

[3] And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest. [4] Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD. [5] Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I WILL CAUSE BREATH TO ENTER INTO YOU, AND YE SHALL LIVE: [6] AND I WILL LAY SINEWS UPON YOU, AND WILL BRING UP FLESH UPON YOU, AND COVER YOU WITH SKIN, AND PUT BREATH IN YOU, AND YE SHALL LIVE; and ye shall know that I am the LORD. [7] So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone. [8] And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them. [9] Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and BREATHE UPON THESE SLAIN, THAT THEY MAY LIVE.[10] So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the BREATH CAME INTO THEM, AND THEY LIVED, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army. [11] Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts. [12] Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I WILL OPEN YOUR GRAVES, AND CAUSE YOU TO COME UP OUT OF YOUR GRAVES, AND BRING YOU INTO THE LAND OF ISRAEL. [13] And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I HAVE OPENED YOUR GRAVES, O MY PEOPLE, AND BROUGHT YOU UP OUT OF YOUR GRAVES, [14] And shall put my spirit in you, and YE SHALL LIVE, AND I SHALL PLACE YOU IN YOUR OWN LAND: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

Theres ONLY 2 general resurrections to come. The 1Cor.15 event and the great white throne event. Must you claim there is no resurrection found in Ezek.37 for your pre-trib rapture to be real. If you can find a resurrection in Ezek.37 does your pre-trib rapture go down the drain? Theres the question i ask. Only requires a yes or no. Is there a resurrection found in Ezek.37?

Way too "gotcha"

Just tell us what you are getting at.

We dont know if you are saying "no rapture at all" or if you are just anti pretrib rapture.

 

[Absolutely]

Happy to end our debate. As seen by those alive at the time as it was recorded in history. Right, our understanding could not be more different. We live our lives, we die, we go to heaven. There is nothing in our future foretold left remaining to happen.

yeah we can all see the vividly depicted plagues and judgements in the gt have never happened.

No brainer

Nor has the mil or new Jerusalem manifested or either battle (before and after the mil)

Those grand canyon leaps are phenomenal.
As is the stretch to believe it.

 

[PlainWord]

yeah we can all see the vividly depicted plagues and judgements in the gt have never happened.

No brainer

Nor has the mil or new Jerusalem manifested or either battle (before and after the mil)

Those grand canyon leaps are phenomenal.
As is the stretch to believe it.

Name one that didn't happen. They all happened. The "new Jerusalem" is the spiritual temple which all Christians are a part. It is NOT a literal building. Christ isn't the literal cornerstone holding up this building. You need to recognize figurative language when you see it. Otherwise you are going to start believing the universe is about to end and crazy stuff like that. Talk about Grand Canyon leaps.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Name one that didn't happen. They all happened. The "new Jerusalem" is the spiritual temple which all Christians are a part. It is NOT a literal building. Christ isn't the literal cornerstone holding up this building. You need to recognize figurative language when you see it. Otherwise you are going to start believing the universe is about to end and crazy stuff like that. Talk about Grand Canyon leaps.

Maybe you missed my posts where I was making the point that, in every place where Paul speaks of us (the Church which is His body) as "temple," he never uses "the definite article ['the']".

And, as a pre-tribber, I do not believe the phrase "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" refers to "the end of the UNIVERSE" (nor "the end of the WORLD"), but is instead, that which immediately precedes "the age [SINGULAR] to come" Matt12:32 (which His disciples correctly understood "WHAT" that was [the "NATURE" of it; what WE now call "the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom," aka "the kingdom OF THE heavenS [on the earth]" aka "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER [on the earth]"], but which they just did not understand the "TIMING" of--Jesus told THEM it wasn't for THEM to know/grasp its "TIMING" [which was their Q of Him in Acts 1; not its "NATURE," which they understood correctly, for the most part! ]).



[p.s. NO "biblically-defined" SIGNS precede "our Rapture," but FOLLOW it instead (and take place WITHIN/DURING the trib yrs, pointing TOWARD and leading UP TO His 2nd Coming to the earth)]

 

[Absolutely]

Name one that didn't happen. They all happened. The "new Jerusalem" is the spiritual temple which all Christians are a part. It is NOT a literal building. Christ isn't the literal cornerstone holding up this building. You need to recognize figurative language when you see it. Otherwise you are going to start believing the universe is about to end and crazy stuff like that. Talk about Grand Canyon leaps.

Wow that is impossible.
You deal is impossible.

It has gates and walls. It is a specific shape and size.

There is no sun or moon,because Jesus and the Father are the light of it.

You need all that changed.

Wow. To actually adopt a doctrine that must change the book of revelation.

 

[Absolutely]

"" You need to recognize figurative language when you see it. Otherwise you are going to start believing the universe is about to end and crazy stuff like that. Talk about Grand Canyon leaps""

Uh,no.
Your deal is the INCUBATOR for heresy.

You actually LEAN TO and MAKE UP spiritualized nonsense to fill in those fantastic leaps.
You need to test fit first.
Test fit that historicist mess.

IT DOES NOT EVEN BEGIN TO FIT.
IT FAILS IMMIDIATELY

 

[Absolutely]

""They all happened""

In order for ALL MANKIND TO GET STUNG by the flying scorpions whose sting is so severe men cry out to die, someone,SOMEWHERE, would have recorded it,and ALL OCEANS AND RIVERS TURNED TO BLOOD.

You have no case

Zero

 

[PlainWord]

Maybe you missed my posts where I was making the point that, in every place where Paul speaks of us (the Church which is His body) as "temple," he never uses "the definite article ['the']".

And?? Is there a point you are making?

And, as a pre-tribber, I do not believe the phrase "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" refers to "the end of the UNIVERSE" (nor "the end of the WORLD"), but is instead, that which immediately precedes "the age [SINGULAR] to come" Matt12:32 (which His disciples correctly understood "WHAT" that was [the "NATURE" of it; what WE now call "the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom," aka "the kingdom OF THE heavenS [on the earth]" aka "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER [on the earth]"], but which they just did not understand the "TIMING" of--Jesus told THEM it wasn't for THEM to know/grasp its "TIMING" [which was their Q of Him in Acts 1; not its "NATURE," which they understood correctly, for the most part! ]).

You are correct in that "the end of the age" immediately preceded the "promised and prophesied Millennial Kingdom." You just failed to recognize that we are living in the millennium now and that their age ended in Sept 70 AD. The Mosaic Age officially ended with the fall of the Temple. The Temple had been the symbol of God's dwelling place on earth. With the Temple gone, God's dwelling place on earth is within each of us believers. We no longer have to follow the Law and do sacrifices for salvation. We get salvation by faith in Jesus Christ. THIS IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE between the two ages!!

You need to consider how very different things are today in terms of how God relates to us compared to how He did prior to 70 AD. The other HUGE difference is we no longer wait in Hades for redemption and restoration with God upon death. We go straight to heaven upon our physical death. The '"the restoration of all things" was our re-connection to God that was lost in the Garden.

You might find this interesting, I too am a pre-tribber. But because I understand that the GT was in 70 AD when Jerusalem was surrounded by Titus, my prospective is different from yours. All of the Christians who were in Jerusalem fled before Titus came. They went over the mountains to Pella and thus all of them escaped the Wrath which came to the disbelieving wicked Jews of that generation.

The resurrection occurred in 66 AD and was witnessed by Nero and recorded by two Roman historians. In Rev 12:15, a river pours out of the serpent’s mouth to drown the woman representing the saints in a flood. At the start of the Jewish revolt, Emperor Nero, the beast with the wounded head of Revelation 13:3, was in Greece about to build a canal. This man-made river appears to be referred to in Revelation 12:15. Rivers and floods frequently represent foreign armies in the Bible (Daniel 7; 9:26; 11:10, 40; Psalm 65:7; 144:7, Isaiah 8:7-8; 17:12; 60:5; Jeremiah 46:7-8; 47:1-2; 51:55-56; Ezekiel 26:3; Joel 2:9; Nahum 1:8). Thus the river and resulting flood of Revelation 12:15 are both Biblical symbols of the army Nero dispatched when he heard about the Jewish revolt at the start of the construction of this canal.

As construction of the canal began, Cassius Dio writes, “[W]hen the first workers touched the earth, blood spouted from it, groans and bellowings were heard, and many phantoms appeared. Nero himself thereupon grasped a mattock and by throwing up some of the soil fairly compelled the rest to imitate him.” Recording this event, Suetonius indicates that as Nero broke the ground, the sound of a trumpet was heard. The fact that a trumpet was heard at the time in which the dead appear to have been raised literally fulfills 1 Corinthians 15:52: “For the trumpet will sound, [and] the dead will be raised imperishable. . . .”

Since the resurrection is a spiritual event it would be far more visible in the spiritual realm. Thus the "rapture" is also a spiritual event. The rapture, "catching up to heaven" is for all of us who were alive in 66 AD or were later born after the 66 AD resurrection. 1 Thes 4:17 simply means when we die, we are immediately caught up to heaven without going to Hades first. Thus 1 Thes 4:17 would be better understood if it was written this way:

17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air (after death). And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

I believe this is what Paul was trying to say. Regardless, numerous near death experiences confirm that this is the way of it for the past 2,000 years. This was also the belief since 70 AD until Darby began his nonsensical charade in the 1830s.

[p.s. NO "biblically-defined" SIGNS precede "our Rapture," but FOLLOW it instead (and take place WITHIN/DURING the trib yrs, pointing TOWARD and leading UP TO His 2nd Coming to the earth)]

Rather than a singular event, the rapture is an on-going event as supported by Rev 14:13 and 21:24. Revelation 14:13 reads, “’Then I heard a voice from heaven say, ‘Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’ ‘Yes,’ says the Spirit, ‘they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.’” Revelation 21:24-26 presents a similar message. According to these verses, the gates of the New Jerusalem are always open in order to forever allow the nations and kings of the earth to “bring their splendor into it.” If the rapture and resurrection occur all at once, as is commonly supposed in futurist circles, how is it that according to Revelation 14:13 and Revelation 21:24-26 people are continuously entering the New Jerusalem long after the resurrection and the rapture? These verses challenge this idea. However, what is stated in Revelation 21:24-26 and Revelation 14:13 are exactly what one would expect if life on earth continues after the end of the age and the saints who have outlived the resurrection are each raised to heaven at the time of death.

The 2nd coming happened in 70 AD at the fall of Jerusalem. There is no future coming of Christ in the Bible, although He can certainly return again if He wants and if He does, it would likely be in judgment again.