Not By Works

[Whispered]

you see, if one is walking in the Sprit, then that means that person is manifesting the fruits of the Sprit, against which there is no law.

but, in the fruits of the Sprit is no Sabbath keeping.
so, further proof, no Sabbath keeping required for salvation through faith in Christ.

Please note that no one has stated keeping the Sabbath secures our Salvation. In fact, I know of no Christian who knows the Bible that would ever claim such a thing.
To imagine that is what is being said when someone states they honor the Sabbath is in my view an indication that the accuser of said person does not know the scriptures, nor the place of the Sabbath in a Christian's life.
Perhaps learning that would abate confusion all around.

 

[Whispered]

I pray God "give" you His "prescence!"
And? I pray ya don't like it!

Please clarify what you're saying there.

 

[NayborBear]

Please clarify what you're saying there.

If you read here posts, to which I haven't read all of them myself. Only the most "recent" postings, actually.

She expressly stated that she didn't believe, despite the "many miracles" God has displayed in her life.

To which I stated? I pray God would "give" you His presence.
So that she "might" see, how she was looking, in God's shoes!
And Pray she didn't like it!

 

[calibob]

Agreed.
Unfortunately, the errant teaching is so secure in the psyche of such folk that they even defend their position by claiming they are not Calvinists.
I find that odd indeed. Calvinism is not the Gospel. Such strong delusion can cost dearly. It is truly a tragedy.

I wish people would read the Bible more than listen to preachers so they could recognize deception and lies when they hear it. We are not in thr 9th Century any more there are a plethora of churches to join. People should learn to learn & think before they get brainwashed. When the following was written "The Way" was the only Christian church, and there were no Bibles!

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[gb9]

Please note that no one has stated keeping the Sabbath secures our Salvation. In fact, I know of no Christian who knows the Bible that would ever claim such a thing.
To imagine that is what is being said when someone states they honor the Sabbath is in my view an indication that the accuser of said person does not know the scriptures, nor the place of the Sabbath in a Christian's life.
Perhaps learning that would abate confusion all around.

I have no issue with anyone who chooses to keep the twilight fri. - twilight sat. Shabbat. no issue whatsoever.

but, I have told mr. bear this, and he disagrees with the fact that it is a choice.


so. if he would confirm that Sabbath keeping is not a requirement, then I will say no more on this matter.

but, as long as he or anyone else pushes the lie that Sabbath keeping is a requirement, I will stand against these judeaizing liars.

 

[Judges1318]

I wish people would read the Bible more than listen to preachers so they could recognize deception and lies when they hear it. We are not in thr 9th Century any more there are a plethora of churches to join. People should learn to learn & think before they get brainwashed. When the following was written "The Way" was the only Christian church, and there were no Bibles!

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Not only are people not reading the Bible for themselves, they are being closed off in denominational circles that prevent them realizing there really are other ways that various passages in the Bible can be legitimately understood which are different from what they're being told by their denomination. I've learned lots by listening to other interpretations that I could not imagine could be derived from the Bible.

 

[Chris1975]

Not only are people not reading the Bible for themselves, they are being closed off in denominational circles that prevent them realizing there really are other ways that various passages in the Bible can be legitimately understood which are different from what they're being told by their denomination. I've learned lots by listening to other interpretations that I could not imagine could be derived from the Bible.

Correct. Instead of reading the bible VANILLA, they have been indoctrinated (like herded animals) into certain denominational teachings. Then when the bible is eventually read, it is read through these denominational filters.

 

[EleventhHour]

Agreed.
Unfortunately, the errant teaching is so secure in the psyche of such folk that they even defend their position by claiming they are not Calvinists.
I find that odd indeed. Calvinism is not the Gospel. Such strong delusion can cost dearly. It is truly a tragedy.

Absolutely agree on this and high profile pastors have managed to make it ubiquitous.

 

[VCO]

Matthew 24
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

It "appears", OSAS'ers, let's refer to these as "cherry pickers", in this exercise, just love to "pick" the word "justified", and then COMBINE the rest of the verse, where it states "MAY BECOME Heirs, with the HOPE of Eternal life?", into their NEW DEFINITION of the word "justified!"
And, to make matters worser? THEN? Building their "new vocabulary", with adding the words "ETERNAL SECURITY!" As well as other words, and phrases in their "OSAS'ers Revised Dictionary of Delusion!"

You may be asking, or perhaps not, "why, or how can this happen?"

Hebrews 6
Therefore moving beyond (NOT leaving) the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto Spiritual maturity (completeness, NOT perfection); not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

THIS is/are reason/s why OSAS'ers refuse to recognize EVERYONE that is NOT of THIS body!

Because, it is NOT the "Body of Christ!"

You won't/don't find many, IF ANY OSAS'er "posing the question": "Am I one of those whom Jesus will reject in THAT day?"

Why? One will THEN be FORCED in the "acknowledging", and THEN "accepting", the words "Strong Delusion" and "Believing a LIE!"

When THIS "comes to pass!":
Isaiah 28
18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation in TRYING TO UNDERSTAND the report. (of what just took place!)

For THIS is what SHALL be REVEALED!:

20 For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.
21 For the Lord shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.
22 Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord God of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth.

NO, you and your kind are the Cherry Pickers, and the OSAS FAITH, has consistently presented the ABSOLUTE TRUTH to you, and it is the Holy Spirit that confirms it in our Heart (Human Spirits), and you consistently reject it, leaning on your cherry picking mistranslated verses.

So be it, we are Done Here. And this is your Official Warning. Here is the reason you CANNOT understand OSAS FAITH:


1 Corinthians 2:12-16 (NIV)
12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.


Were do we go from here?


Titus 3:9-11 (HCSB)
9 But avoid foolish debates, genealogies, quarrels, and disputes about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
10 Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning,
11 knowing that such a person is perverted and sins, being self-condemned.


Like I said this is your first Official Warning, You will Get a Second, Probably VERY SOON. Then on the THIRD OFFENCE, you will be placed on my permanent IGNORE LIST, so that NONE of your posts will show up on my screen.

AGAIN, we are Finished here! Since you brought it UP, here is "ETERNAL SECURITY!"


John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever!
No one will snatch them out of My hand.

1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

John 3:3-7 (NIV)
3 In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
4 "How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"
5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
7 You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.'

Romans 6:23 (HCSB)
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Discern]

That’s why they can not hear anyone and continue to bear false witness in failure to understand. They hear eternal life, or security and they go into Calvin mode. So they can not hear anything else. One thing I have noticed in the past few years. The hatred against calvinistic thought is so great, these people will never even listen to anythign anyone says, because they are blinded by their hate,

we used to say the Catholic Church convinced their people through some form of manipulation a bunch of things that no one should believe. Well whatever church these people go to. Have done this to them. Instead of sharing the word with them and helping them to make their Own decisions based on what is rue, They have spoon fed them stuff about their enemy (in this case calvin and OSAS) that these people have no capacity to openly listen to a word anyone says.

Yes, it is an extreme backlash against Calvinism that causes alarms to go off in their heads anytime they hear about “God drawing”, “God keeping”, or God electing, which are not unique to Calvinism, but are soundly biblical, and should be held by all biblical Christians.

I know plenty of Wesleyans and free willers that agree with God drawing and keeping unto salvation, but those rabidly anti Calvinist go to the opposite extreme and deny these

 

[calibob]

I wish people would read the Bible more than listen to preachers so they could recognize deception and lies when they hear it. We are not in thr 9th Century any more there are a plethora of churches to join. People should learn to learn & think before they get brainwashed. When the following was written "The Way" was the only Christian church, and there were no Bibles!

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Mind you all most people couldn't read yet either.

 

[VCO]

Correct. Instead of reading the bible VANILLA, they have been indoctrinated (like herded animals) into certain denominational teachings. Then when the bible is eventually read, it is read through these denominational filters.

Maybe your favorite Bible is, but NON MINE. It is all the WORD OF GOD, from Beginning to End, on the Bibles in my Collection of Software.

 

[Chris1975]

Yes, it is an extreme backlash against Calvinism that causes alarms to go off in their heads anytime they hear about “God drawing”, “God keeping”, or God electing, which are not unique to Calvinism, but are soundly biblical

Not so. What happens is that Election verses are mixed up with Believer verses such that Calvinists assume they are one and the same thing. And they are not.

• Not all people who are currently believers will continue in the faith. Those who fall away were NEVER ELECT.
• All those who are ELECT are Believers.

See the distinction?

Only God knows SPECIFICALLY who his Elect are. We don't. We can refer to them corporately as Elect (the true church are the Elect) but this is yet to be revealed.

Then what happens is that all of the Elect verses are rounded up and applied to all believers. As a result entire sections of the bible have to be lopped off to accommodate this thinking. The parable of the sower on the rocky ground, where some BELIEVED for a while but then fell away are given "creative" reasons as to why they weren't really believers (in turn disputing the word of God). Or the warnings about apostasy (falling away), trampling the blood of Christ by which they were sanctified. Also given creative "Solutions" to force fit the doctrine. Other sections are lopped off which warn the body of Christ to continue in His goodness, branches bearing fruit, enduring temptation, warnings against false prophets and teachers, the overthrowing the faith of some, and it goes on and on.

All because of not rightly dividing the word of truth.

Election is True. But it has not been properly understood. Hence the division.

 

[Discern]

Please note that no one has stated keeping the Sabbath secures our Salvation. In fact, I know of no Christian who knows the Bible that would ever claim such a thing.
To imagine that is what is being said when someone states they honor the Sabbath is in my view an indication that the accuser of said person does not know the scriptures, nor the place of the Sabbath in a Christian's life.
Perhaps learning that would abate confusion all around.

I believe in keeping the Lord’s Day, (Sunday) but not out of fear of losing salvation or necessity. I do it to honor the Lord

And when, for whatever reason, I was unable to do so, I did not feel like my standing or relationship with God was in jeapardy. And if I believed in keeping the Sabbath, my attitude would be the same. Jesus rebuked that kind of thinking (turning a blessing into a dogmatic requirement) many times during His earthly ministry. The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath, for example

 

[calibob]

Not only are people not reading the Bible for themselves, they are being closed off in denominational circles that prevent them realizing there really are other ways that various passages in the Bible can be legitimately understood which are different from what they're being told by their denomination. I've learned lots by listening to other interpretations that I could not imagine could be derived from the Bible.

Excuse me but what you replied is unclear. Did you mean a specific bible? Because I myself use biblehub.com quite often they have most popular translations of specific verses and or passages together on the same page for comparison. I realize many words have different meanings. In King James it may say fear but another it may say respect in another it may say obey so I get a more panoramic idea of the message that is being set foreword. There are four Greek words for love that are important for Christians to understand. They are agape, phileo, storge, and eros. co; https://www.truthortradition.com/

 

[Discern]

Not so. What happens is that Election verses are mixed up with Believer verses such that Calvinists assume they are one and the same thing. And they are not.

• Not all people who are currently believers will continue in the faith. Those who fall away were NEVER ELECT.
• All those who are ELECT are Believers.

See the distinction?

Only God knows SPECIFICALLY who his Elect are. We don't. We can refer to them corporately as Elect (the true church are the Elect) but this is yet to be revealed.

Then what happens is that all of the Elect verses are rounded up and applied to all believers. As a result entire sections of the bible have to be lopped off to accommodate this thinking. The parable of the sower on the rocky ground, where some BELIEVED for a while but then fell away are given "creative" reasons as to why they weren't really believers (in turn disputing the word of God). Or the warnings about apostasy (falling away), trampling the blood of Christ by which they were sanctified. Also given creative "Solutions" to force fit the doctrine. Other sections are lopped off which warn the body of Christ to continue in His goodness, branches bearing fruit, enduring temptation, warnings against false prophets and teachers, the overthrowing the faith of some, and it goes on and on.

All because of not rightly dividing the word of truth.

Election is True. But it has not been properly understood. Hence the division.

Question. The people who believed and permanently stopped believing: were they ever Christ’s house?

 

[Discern]

Question. The people who believed and permanently stopped believing: were they ever Christ’s house?

Question two. Is the word believe or faith used of the stony soil in the parable of the sower?

Question three. Is all belief the same as faith?

 

[Chris1975]

Question. The people who believed and permanently stopped believing: were they ever Christ’s house?

Yes. Those who remained in the house are called SONS. Those who left the house are called SLAVES.

John 8
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

 

[calibob]

Please remember most translator have confirmation bias. King James 1609 & 1611 were mandated to stifle Puritanism which although Calvinistic put the Geneva translations authority above the King or the Pope. The king couldn't have that so more emphasis was place on submission to authority. Remember at the time the Archbishop of Canterbury was in charge of the Church of England officially but answered to the King or he could be beheaded.

 

[Discern]

Question. The people who believed and permanently stopped believing: were they ever Christ’s house?

If you answer yes, you will be contradicting Paul

If you answer no, you will be answering your own objection.