Rejecting Homosexuality in all its Expressions Without Hurting or Judging Others is Vital to Being a Christian in Good Standing

[paisleypanther]

Agree with this but don’t you think the Lord can deliver that person forever so they can go on to live a natural life? Get married, have a family?

Yes, in the same way God can deliver someone from proclivities toward addiction, pornography, and lustful thought lives. He can do it, but that doesn't mean it always happens. What I mean to say is that while God surely can deliver someone from whatever their thorn is, that doesn't mean He will. And if He does not, we should not rain down our judgement upon said person. It is their burden to carry, and bless them for carrying it with the loving guidance of God. I have a sister who has experienced same-sex attraction ever since she was young. For many years she has prayed to God to remove the temptation she feels around women. While He did not remove these feelings, He gave her the strength to guard her heart against them. I believe this is a reality for people struggling with any sort of sin. If God just removed our sinful thoughts or even the temptation to sin, we wouldn't need Him anymore. However, a thorn like this constantly reminds the bearer of their dependence on God. While it may not be a thorn that is acceptable in Christian circles, the nature of it is the same: it is all sin and unfortunately we are all sinners. This does not mean that each person will experience same-sex attraction, but I do certainly believe we should always extend the same love and empathy to those who feel this way. My sister always says she wishes she was not attracted to women: this is not her choice the same way a tendency for alcoholism, gambling, or laziness isn't a choice. We all have flaws and we're all predisposed to certain types of sin. God has the power to remove these flaws, but more often than not He instead gives us the strength to rely on Him and resist all temptation, no matter what it is.

 

[paisleypanther]

Yes, in the same way God can deliver someone from proclivities toward addiction, pornography, and lustful thought lives. He can do it, but that doesn't mean it always happens. What I mean to say is that while God surely can deliver someone from whatever their thorn is, that doesn't mean He will. And if He does not, we should not rain down our judgement upon said person. It is their burden to carry, and bless them for carrying it with the loving guidance of God. I have a sister who has experienced same-sex attraction ever since she was young. For many years she has prayed to God to remove the temptation she feels around women. While He did not remove these feelings, He gave her the strength to guard her heart against them. I believe this is a reality for people struggling with any sort of sin. If God just removed our sinful thoughts or even the temptation to sin, we wouldn't need Him anymore. However, a thorn like this constantly reminds the bearer of their dependence on God. While it may not be a thorn that is acceptable in Christian circles, the nature of it is the same: it is all sin and unfortunately we are all sinners. This does not mean that each person will experience same-sex attraction, but I do certainly believe we should always extend the same love and empathy to those who feel this way. My sister always says she wishes she was not attracted to women: this is not her choice the same way a tendency for alcoholism, gambling, or laziness isn't a choice. We all have flaws and we're all predisposed to certain types of sin. God has the power to remove these flaws, but more often than not He instead gives us the strength to rely on Him and resist all temptation, no matter what it is.

Agree with this but don’t you think the Lord can deliver that person forever so they can go on to live a natural life? Get married, have a family?

(Part 2) In addition to this, I think we must continually challenge our ideas of what a "natural life" means. What is a natural life? A life free of sin or temptation from sin? Unfortunately, that would be a very unnatural life. I think the issue is not so much whether or not people who experience same-sex attraction can have a "natural" life but rather a God-honoring, fulfilling life. I believe they can. My sister may never get married because she cannot bring herself to fall in love with a man, but does this lifestyle make her any less useful for the kingdom of God? I'd say no. She is a youth leader and a summer camp counselor: she has touched the lives of many children and troubled teens. While getting married and having children may constitute a natural life for many, it is not the end goal for everyone. Some people, like the Apostle Paul, will live wonderfully impactful Christian lives without spouses or children. For Christians, I posit that a natural life should not simply be marriage and children but rather living in communion with and serving the Father. When we construct these ideas of what the normal Christian life is, we unfortunately exclude a lot of people who have not been called to live that specific life (for example: people with chronic mental/physical illness, sexual assault survivors, sterile men and women, people who experience same-sex attraction, the list goes on). For some of these people, getting married and having a family can be even down-right impossible. However, they can still live a "normal" Christian life because like all other Christ followers they will be resisting temptation while also relying on and serving God.

 

[John146]

A life free of sin or temptation from sin? Unfortunately, that would be a very unnatural life. I think the issue is not so much whether or not people who experience same-sex attraction can have a "natural" life but rather a God-honoring, fulfilling life.

I thought you knew what I meant. Attraction to the opposite sex is natural. Attraction to the same sex is unnatural. You cannot be attracted to the same sex and live a God honoring life.

 

[paisleypanther]

I thought you knew what I meant. Attraction to the opposite sex is natural. Attraction to the same sex is unnatural. You cannot be attracted to the same sex and live a God honoring life.

I agree that same-sex attraction is unnatural, but I strongly disagree with your claim that anyone who experiences same-sex attraction cannot live a God-honoring life. I cannot convince you otherwise so I will instead pray that God heals the judgement you feel in your heart for people who are tempted differently than you are. God bless.

 

[John146]

I agree that same-sex attraction is unnatural, but I strongly disagree with your claim that anyone who experiences same-sex attraction cannot live a God-honoring life. I cannot convince you otherwise so I will instead pray that God heals the judgement you feel in your heart for people who are tempted differently than you are. God bless.

I just don’t see how someone can have same sex thoughts and at the same time be honoring to God. Those thoughts are sinful.

 

[TheIndianGirl]

I think gay Christians do love Jesus and want to honor God. There have been recent studies saying that everyone is bisexual (based on observing how much people's eyes dilate when viewing different types of porn), and that there are various degrees of bisexuality. One of my previous pastors who was strongly against gay marriage pointed to these studies, that everyone is bisexual, in arguing that homosexual actions is essentially a choice (although admitting also that some struggle more than others).

 

[TheIndianGirl]

If anyone even has one trace of bisexuality, we cannot point our fingers at homosexuals for being on the extreme end of the bisexuality scale.

 

[TheIndianGirl]

A lot of celibate gay Christians acknowledge their homosexual thoughts, but refrain from sex. The issue here is thoughts vs actions.

 

[John146]

I think gay Christians do love Jesus and want to honor God. There have been recent studies saying that everyone is bisexual (based on observing how much people's eyes dilate when viewing different types of porn), and that there are various degrees of bisexuality. One of my previous pastors who was strongly against gay marriage pointed to these studies, that everyone is bisexual, in arguing that homosexual actions is essentially a choice (although admitting also that some struggle more than others).

That’s a big no!

 

[oyster67]

John 8
8:1 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
8:2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with [his] finger wrote on the ground, [as though he heard][ them not].
8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8:8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
8:9 And they which heard [it], being convicted by [their own] conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, [even] unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Struggling against sin is a lifelong thing. That is why we must die DAILY. The Christian life is one of striving, not arriving. We will be glorified, but that time is yet future.

Luke 9:23 And he said to [them] all, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

 

[Whispered]

Would you rather wrestle a gay crocodile, or a heterosexual crocodile? Either way, they don't seem like a cheerful lot...

They're both clearly sinners.

I say let them live and die as they choose. Who's going to try to baptize a crocodile?

 

[oyster67]

I say let them live and die as they choose. Who's going to try to baptize a crocodile?

I like your sig about sleeping with a mosquito.

 

[Whispered]

I like your sig about sleeping with a mosquito.

Thank you. It is true though if you think about it. Especially those No-See-Ums. Irritating little sound they make.

 

[Angela53510]

Mii said:
Two virgins marrying is rare in the first place

This is just what Satan wants our little children to believe. There are many of us out there. Keep your wicks dry, little oysters.

My daughter and her husband both married as virgins. It is working out well for them! My daughter took some family and marriage courses from a Catholic university affiliated with her university. They talked about the scientific side of pre-marital and other kinds of sex outside of a heterosexual marriage. Besides STDs and pregnancy, (or infertility caused by STDs) there are a huge number of psychological effects of sex outside of marriage. My daughter decided to wait for marriage, and she is glad she did.

I wish more people could hear about how damaging sec outside of marriage is, including homosexual relations. We have the Bible to lead and guide us. The world has had sexual morality stripped away with lies, and the trans agenda, and has nothing to guide them in the best way to live, as laid out clearly in the Bible by our Creator God!

 

[HeraldtheNews]

it looks like homosexuality birth control and unnatural birth control are the same thing. is God offended by 2 naked men or women touching each other or is it about preventing the conception of some ones existence. the latter fits in the framework of sin is the absence of love which targets a victim. God knows those people who don't exist as though they did exist. God knows those things in shadow of darkness as though they came to light. prior to 1930 they were against birth control

I'm not quite sure what you are saying here. I think I need some sleep. But, maybe just a cat in my bed for now.

 

[oldethennew]

theindiangirl has no place here!!!

 

[oyster67]

theindiangirl has no place here!!!

She is just parroting what she has been taught by the vulgar world around her. I think a good verse might be;

2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

I believe that that would pretty much exclude the concept of a "gay Christian".

 

[HeraldtheNews]

I say let them live and die as they choose. Who's going to try to baptize a crocodile?

Not quite sure where you're going with this. I think the point was that homosexuality (same- sex) and heterosexuality (male - female) is only blessed between a man and a woman in a loyal committed loving relationship. Even the Catholic Church, from what I hear, when they consider divorce and annulment, take into consideration if a marriage is founded on true love, in a peaceful loving relationship. A legal marriage, which can only happen between a man and woman, (even if there is a church marriage it may not be what they call a sacramental marriage), a legal marriage only marries a man and lady before a court or court authority. But to be a real marriage before the church, the marriage must be made real by a loving relationship. Day by day.

I'm not Catholic, but my home church is a traditional liturgical church. But, from what I understand, that church will honor a court marriage, or an informal, loving relationship between a man and a woman, if a couple are married by love. It's God's love that marries people, but the legal court papers are a sign and public witness that confirms the relationship.

From what I understand, the church will consider such marriages as true and real, and may not grant an annulment.

I think my crazy point of the crocodiles, was that both would be equally sinners, if they did not turn from their way of life that was not bringing peaceful waters. But if the heterosexual one did not honor God's laws it would be in less trouble.

As far as baptizing a crocodile, you would have to be very careful, because by the time you Wade out into the river and wake it up, and dunk it under, it might not quite agree with your false doctrine.

I think the moral of the story is not to judge each other, and don't act like Crocodiles.

 

[HeraldtheNews]

*Homophobic* is not only a misnomer (since phobia means fear) but it is another one of those Left-Liberal labels such as islamophobic, or xenophobic etc, which needs to be rejected out of hand.

No one is afraid of homosexuals so why use a misleading term? But it is meant to shut down free speech against sexual perversion, to the point where they do not want preachers preaching about this sin. And it is the Radical Muslims who have foisted *Islamophobia* on the West, so that ordinary citizens cannot speak out against the evils of Radical Islam and must start capitulating to Muslim demands.

1. Interestingly enough, Islamic countries have the death penalty for homosexuality (I will not use the term *gay* since that is another misnomer. These are sad people).
"12 countries where being gay is legally punishable by death: Yemen, Iran, Brunei, Mauritania, Nigeria, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Somalia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates, Pakistan." (From USA Today)

2. The Law of Moses also had the death penalty for homosexuality: Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination... If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. (Lev 18:22; 20:13)

3. Now here's a Utopian statement: "Rejecting Homosexuality in all its Expressions Without Hurting or Judging Others..."
The problem is that if a Christian were to tell a homosexual person (who asks for an opinion) that this type of sexuality is (a) perverted, (b) sinful, and (c) needs to be repented of -- abandoned, there is no doubt that that person will either be hurt or mad. This is not even a question of *judging* others since what people do behind closed doors is their business. There was a time when it was even against the law in the USA (without the death penalty). Sodomy was a felony punishable by imprisonment or hard labor, and this was decriminalized only recently,

4. The homosexuals in the West are a small part of the population, but because they are well organized, and well funded, they are extremely vocal about their so-called *rights*. But they have gone far beyond that, since no one cares what they do in their bedrooms. However, they want to change the laws of the land as well as the mores of society, so that homosexuality becomes the norm and so does pedophilia. .

5. The majority of politicians wish to *buy* votes by promoting legislation that favors homosexuals, rather than stand up against the pressures of these deviants and perverts. So now we heard recently about even the US military wanting to actually fund transgender operations!

6. Then we have the theologically liberal and apostate denominations ordaining homosexual clergy, and thus perverting Christianity. That simply gives more incentive to homosexuals, who feel it must be *A-OK*.

7. So what should be the position of *a Christian in good standing*? He or she can simply open their Bibles and turn to Romans chapter 1, and tell whoever wants to listen that "This is how God regards homosexuality". And it is serious enough that there is another Scripture (1 Corinthians 6:9) which condemns it altogether so that they cannot enter into the Kingdom of God:

King James Bible
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind...

Some modern versions bring this into more stark reality:

New International Version
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men...

New Living Translation
Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality...

New King James Version
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites...

You covered a lot of bases there. "Homophobic" means fear of being around those of a same-sex orientation. That was a bit extreme. I meant that as a man, I'm glad I'm attracted to women. And get tired of being labeled otherwise because it is not easy to find a girlfriend/lady friend at my age, with social isolation issues at times.

At the same time, it is against the Bible to judge others and condemn them for human weaknesses, at times beyond their control, such as addictions, and shun suffering people who come to church for help with spiritual freedom issues, and to experience the saving power of the equal and unconditional love of God, through Jesus Christ our Lord, the newborn and ressurected King of Glory!

 

[HeraldtheNews]

I understand why people reject homosexuality based on the literal reading of the Bible, and the message is also consistent in both OT and NT. This issue is tricky because supporters of LGBT folks view this matter as a human rights issue, where some people are not being treated equally/fairly as others. To add to this injury, a lot of LGBT folks do face abuse and rejection even from family. So, to respond to the message title, generally speaking with a few exceptions, there really is no way to reject homosexuality without LGBT folks feeling hurt or judged.

I don't know if I agree with that totally. We as Christians must reject homosexuality, as well as adultery (this means when a man or woman has intimate relations outside their marriage). Adultery is far more serious than homosexuality. And fornication means men and women sleeping around with anyone of the opposite sex that they feel like without regarding their feelings.

Same sex intimacy is not called fornication, since same-sex intimacy is not regarded as sexuality, so therefore can not be called fornication, but is more serious than fornication. I think same-sex behavior is called sodomy, which is one of the more serious offenses, along with behavior's that were between men and women. Because in the Bible, thousands of years ago, the people were out of control, and had lost their minds, Even though God wanted to save that desert city, because of the outcry in Heaven of protest, He reluctantly allowed it's destruction, since they were unwilling and/or unable to stop, because they were taken over by the devil and the demons. Demons are fallen angels that rebel against God's ways.

Anyone can be saved who turns to God and to the Bible and to the teaching and Truth of Jesus, day by day.

It can take many years to overcome unhealthy ways of living, and getting around healthier, happy people helps a lot. The main thing is to stay on the right path and return to the Lord if we as Christians find ourselves in unhealthy situations or relationships, or even dangerous places.

A Catholic sister told me once when I was very depressed and unhappy and distressed:. "Follow the path of peace.". Meaning if something we are doing, or not doing, is leading to tormenting spirits, then our hearts are like a fire alarm-. It wakes us up and gets us to take action.

Without Jesus and each other, a Christmas "hug and a mug" what would be our fire alarm?

Let's all try and have a happy and safe Christmas and New year celebration. And not judge others. But don't buy a ticket to Sodom and Gomorrah either.

I would go out with TheIndianGirl anytime. Even if she was LGBT friendly.