Not By Works

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Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
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No, you do not.
What people refer to as OSAS is not actually a doctrine. It is the result of the finished work of the cross.
The Book of Romans chapter 8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Yes, however walking after the Spirit entails the following:

Romans 8 KJV
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

And to those there is no condemnation (Rom 8v1)
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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www.christiancourier.com
Yes, however walking after the Spirit entails the following:

Romans 8 KJV
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

And to those there is no condemnation (Rom 8v1)
Calvinism tells those who believe in it that they had no choice but to follow Christ due to their own total depravity and God's intercession known as, unconditional election, as well as limited atonement.

The whole of Romans 8 is describing what it is to live in Christ compared to not. It isn't speaking about works or working to remain saved.
 
Dec 6, 2019
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If you believe in once saved always saved you believe a Calvinist doctrine. He's the one who succeeded in bringing it into the church. It was firmly resisted for the first 1500 years of the church. It's an end times teaching. It's the vehicle of deceit through which the end times falling away is occurring.

Calvinists also believe in the Trinity, the Deity of Christ, bodily resurrection, justification by faith, etc.

Calvinism teaches "perserverance of the Saints". I don't think you know what that doctrine actually states.

People who properly understand grace do not use it as a fire insurance policy to sin or to be lax.

How many Calvinists do you actually know?

How many Calvinists have you actually read or listened to?

Do you judge them based on their words or what others that oppose them say about them?
 
Dec 6, 2019
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Calvinism tells those who believe in it that they had no choice but to follow Christ due to their own total depravity and God's intercession known as, unconditional election, as well as limited atonement.

The whole of Romans 8 is describing what it is to live in Christ compared to not. It isn't speaking about works or working to remain saved.
I haven't really heard anyone teach Calvinism here.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
517
113
Calvinism tells those who believe in it that they had no choice but to follow Christ due to their own total depravity and God's intercession known as, unconditional election, as well as limited atonement.

The whole of Romans 8 is describing what it is to live in Christ compared to not. It isn't speaking about works or working to remain saved.
There should be a simple test. Is the believer free to return to their previous lifestyle having once believed in Christ for salvation?
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
No, you do not.
What people refer to as OSAS is not actually a doctrine. It is the result of the finished work of the cross.
The Book of Romans chapter 8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk NOT after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
OSAS maintain they are still saved even if they do "walk after the flesh." This is in direct opposition to scripture.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,230
113
www.christiancourier.com
There should be a simple test. Is the believer free to return to their previous lifestyle having once believed in Christ for salvation?
That's not a test. The believer left their former lifestyle once they accepted Christ as that which would save them from it.
 
Dec 6, 2019
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Verse 5

5.For they who are after the flesh, etc. He introduces this difference between the flesh and the Spirit, not only to confirm, by an argument derived from what is of an opposite character, what he has before mentioned, — that the grace of Christ belongs to none but to those who, having been regenerated by the Spirit, strive after purity; but also to relieve the faithful with a seasonable consolation, lest being conscious of many infirmities, they should despair: for as he had exempted none from the curse, but those who lead a spiritual life, he might seem to cut off from all mortals the hope of salvation; for who in this world can be found adorned with so much angelic purity so as to be wholly freed from the flesh? It was therefore necessary to define what it is tobe in the flesh, and to walk after the flesh. At first, indeed, Paul does not define the distinction so very precisely; but yet we shall see as we proceed, that his object is to afford good hope to the faithful, though they are bound to their flesh; only let them not give loose reins to its lusts, but give themselves up to be guided by the Holy Spirit.
By saying thatcarnal men care for, or think upon, the things of the flesh, he shows that he did not count those as carnal who aspire after celestial righteousness, but those who wholly devote themselves to the world. I have rendered φρονουσιν by a word of larger meaning, cogitant — think, that readers may understand that those only are excluded from being the children of God who, being given to the allurements of the flesh, apply their minds and study to depraved lusts. (244) Now, in the second clause he encourages the faithful to entertain good hope, provided they find that they are raised up by the Spirit to the meditation of righteousness: for wherever the Spirit reigns, it is an evidence of the saving grace of God; as the grace of God does not exist where the Spirit being extinguished the reign of the flesh prevails. But I will briefly repeat here what I have reminded you of before, — That to be in the flesh, or, after the flesh, is the same thing as to be without the gift of regeneration: (245) and such are all they who continue, as they commonly say, in pure naturals, (Puris naturalibus .)

“The verb,” says [Turrettin ], “means not only to think of, to understand, to attend to a thing; but also to mind it,to value it, and to take great delight in it. — Ed.

Calvin
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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That's not a test. The believer left their former lifestyle once they accepted Christ as that which would save them from it.
Then why do OSAS people say they are always saved regardless of what they do?
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,230
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www.christiancourier.com
Then why do OSAS people say they are always saved regardless of what they do?
Again you are attempting to speak for all Christians, which you cannot do. Further, you are ignoring the scriptures that inform as to what we are when we are reborn in Christ.
"For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. " the Book of Hebrews chapter 10