Not By Works
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I agree with most of this post, and I do not think continuing in the faith is a work, but the difference may be that I don't think the greek word hupomone, (which is translated perserverence or patience) is a result of our steadfastness, (which is kind of how you come off) but it is rather a result of abiding.
In other words, saying that we have to keep the faith or keep the downpayment is making it conditional on our own steadfastness. But we cannot trust in our own steadfastness. When the evil days come, our steadfastness will not carry us. His steadfastness will.
"hupomone", (patience, perserverance) comes through abiding. (Romans 5:1-5)
In other words, saying that we have to keep the faith or keep the downpayment is making it conditional on our own steadfastness. But we cannot trust in our own steadfastness. When the evil days come, our steadfastness will not carry us. His steadfastness will.
"hupomone", (patience, perserverance) comes through abiding. (Romans 5:1-5)
And to clarify further to avoid misunderstanding...I don't think we maintain salvation in any way. We have a part in maintaining fellowship, but not in maintaining salvation.
We don't even have to stumble 2 Peter 1:10.. We stumble when we are careless with fellowship and growth.
If I focus on fellowship and growth, I don't need to focus on maintaining salvation, and that is good, because only Jesus can do that.
We don't even have to stumble 2 Peter 1:10.. We stumble when we are careless with fellowship and growth.
If I focus on fellowship and growth, I don't need to focus on maintaining salvation, and that is good, because only Jesus can do that.
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I think you're making this way too complicated.
You have to believe in Christ to the very end to be saved when he returns. If you don't continue to believe, you will find yourself back in your old life of sin, and without the forgiveness of Christ because you don't believe in it anymore. And the Bible is clear this can happen through the deceitfulness of sin. You indulge a little here because in your mind it's too hard to resist and before too long your heart is hardened to it, and the gospel. You don't want to be caught in that condition when Christ returns.
The truly scary part about this is the church is being taught to ignore this vital message from the Bible for fear this is somehow a works gospel. And that whether or not you're going to be saved was purely a fateful decision that God made for you anyway and which you have no control over whatsoever. So, in the end, 'Christians' just end up being just like the world but they're saved because God picked them to be saved despite any outward difference between them and the person who wasn't picked to be saved. The church has made Christianity a joke.
You have to believe in Christ to the very end to be saved when he returns. If you don't continue to believe, you will find yourself back in your old life of sin, and without the forgiveness of Christ because you don't believe in it anymore. And the Bible is clear this can happen through the deceitfulness of sin. You indulge a little here because in your mind it's too hard to resist and before too long your heart is hardened to it, and the gospel. You don't want to be caught in that condition when Christ returns.
The truly scary part about this is the church is being taught to ignore this vital message from the Bible for fear this is somehow a works gospel. And that whether or not you're going to be saved was purely a fateful decision that God made for you anyway and which you have no control over whatsoever. So, in the end, 'Christians' just end up being just like the world but they're saved because God picked them to be saved despite any outward difference between them and the person who wasn't picked to be saved. The church has made Christianity a joke.
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WISEMEN CAME TO SEE THE YOUNG CHILD BORN IN BETHLEHAM
It is time to tell the Story of the Wise Men from the EAST. I really like to tell this story, because it shatters the Myths about the Wise Men. For those who have heard me tell this story before in past years, just bare with me, because there is always people who want hear, who have never heard story with the REALITY of the exposed Myths.
1. Myth number one, is there were only three wise-men.
2. Myth number two, is that they were Kings from the EAST.
3. Myth number three, is that gifts Gold, Frankincense, and Myrrh, were only a small amount.
4. Myth number four, is they rode CAMELS.
5. Myth number five, is they did not have a Military Escort.
6. Myth number six, is the Army of Israel was Still in Jerusalem.
7. Myth number seven, IS THE ARRIVED while Mary and JESUS were still in the Stable and Jesus was lying in a Manger.
That seventh one is UNBELIEVABLE, because the ARTIST that Drew the Picture, that we grew up with, and had NEVER EVEN READ the story, while paying close attention to what it actually said:
Matthew 2:1-15 (ESV)
1 Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the east came to Jerusalem,
2 saying, “Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.”
3 When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him;
4 and assembling all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born.
5 They told him, “In Bethlehem of Judea, for so it is written by the prophet:
6 “‘And you, O Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah; for from you shall come a ruler who will shepherd my people Israel.’”
7 Then Herod summoned the wise men secretly and ascertained from them what time the star had appeared. [Herod found out it had been two years since they had seen the star that first night, hence his orders to kill ever male child in Bethlehem, two years and under.]
8 And he sent them to Bethlehem, saying, “Go and search diligently for the child, and when you have found him, bring me word, that I too may come and worship him.”
9 After listening to the king, they went on their way. And behold, the star that they had seen when it rose went before them until it came to rest over the place where the child was.
10 When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy.
11 And going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures , they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.
12 And being warned in a dream not to return to Herod, they departed to their own country by another way.
13 Now when they had departed, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, “Rise, take the child and his mother, and flee to Egypt, and remain there until I tell you, for Herod is about to search for the child, to destroy him.”
14 And he rose and took the child and his mother by night and departed to Egypt
15 and remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet, “Out of Egypt I called my son.”
Most people know that the Wise Men were from the TRIBE of MAGI, the same tribe as Daniel after he confirmed that King Nebuchadnezzar's dream, and what it meant, was appoint to be chief governor over the Wise Men.
Daniel 2:48 (ASV)
48 Then the king made Daniel great, and gave him many great gifts, and made him to rule over the whole province of Babylon, and to be chief governor over all the wise men of Babylon.
They remembered the Prophecy, while ISRAEL had forgotten it.
Here are a few of the fictitious images, that formed a lot of our false images of the Wise Men.
..
Not only did Artists not pay much attention to the Details in Scripture, but the TOTALLY ignored researching the Tribe of Magi, in the history books. So a lot of the details that I will explain come from the history books about the Tribe of Magi. But in the BIBLE is says they arrived at a HOUSE where Mary and the young Child were. Joseph was a Carpenter and no you for them at the INN only spelled WORK FOR A CARPENTER. His own house, would have been the first things He built.
They were NOT THREE KINGS, they were the Tribe of Wise Men, that some of them hired out to kingdoms throughout Mid East. They were Hired to be their Wise Men, because they had STUDIED EVERY THING THAT WAS CALLED WISDOM AT THEIR TIME. They also conducted Coronation Ceremony of New Kings. They were from the area west of the Caspian Sea and south of the Caspian Sea, and as far south west as Babylon. Wise Men from the east, is general direction, NOT A SPECIFIC DIRECTION, therefore it includes everything from northeast through the southeast.
So the land of the Tribe of Magi, would be predominantly everything west of the Caspian Sea and southern edge of the Caspian Sea. A few hired themselves out as Wise Men, but the majority were focused on was perfect for their major cash crop. No, not grain, but their Tribe raised Arabian Horses to sell to most of the countries in the MID EAST as War Horses.
Now why would men from that tribe ride CAMELS? THEY DID NOT, it never mentioned what they rode in the Bible, that idea was spawned in the imagination of the artists. Not only that, they NEVER WENT ANYWHERE with less than 10 Magi, and with boxes of treasure on board, they would bring a Detachment of WARRIORS of at least a 100 men, know to be fiercest Warriors in the land, to protect the Treasure. Now picture this, ISRAEL was at war at that time, so the ARMY IS OUT OF TOWN, and the only protection for the KING of ISRAEL was his Palace Guard. And in town comes at least 10 Magi, known to conduct Coronation Ceremony's, with at least a 100 Armed Guards, and HEROD hears from the Magi, “Where is he who has been born king of the Jews?"
And you may say, yeah but there is a great deal of sand east of Jerusalem, how can horses cross that? It does not say they crossed the desert to get to Jerusalem. Artists only imaged it. Up north there is a fertile Valley with rivers, that comes clear across to northern part of Lebanon. That is the direction they would have traveled. Why did it take two years for them to arrive in Jerusalem? They had to ride from Village to Village in their Country to Collect the HOMAGE for the New King, that is their Tradition. That's right, they were NOT BIRTHDAY GIFTS, but Homage to the New King. Gold and frankincense and myrrh is the traditional Homage for a New King, at least one Treasure Box full of each one, for the New King. Enough valuable treasure to feed them in exile until Herod died.
If you call picture ten men dressed like this winner of the Mid East Horsemans Association Horse Show, you may have a lot more accurate idea of what the real Wise Men may have looked like.
View attachment 208770
And like Paul Harvey use to say:
"And Now . . . . . You know the rest of the Story."
It is time to tell the Story of the Wise Men from the EAST. I really like to tell this story, because it shatters the Myths about the Wise Men. For those who have heard me tell this story before in past years, just bare with me, because there is always people who want hear, who have never heard story with the REALITY of the exposed Myths.
1. Myth number one, is there were only three wise-men.
2. Myth number two, is that they were Kings from the EAST.
3. Myth number three, is that gifts Gold, Frankincense, and Myrrh, were only a small amount.
4. Myth number four, is they rode CAMELS.
5. Myth number five, is they did not have a Military Escort.
6. Myth number six, is the Army of Israel was Still in Jerusalem.
7. Myth number seven, IS THE ARRIVED while Mary and JESUS were still in the Stable and Jesus was lying in a Manger.
That seventh one is UNBELIEVABLE, because the ARTIST that Drew the Picture, that we grew up with, and had NEVER EVEN READ the story, while paying close attention to what it actually said:
Matthew 2:1-15 (ESV)
1 Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the east came to Jerusalem,
2 saying, “Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.”
3 When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him;
4 and assembling all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born.
5 They told him, “In Bethlehem of Judea, for so it is written by the prophet:
6 “‘And you, O Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah; for from you shall come a ruler who will shepherd my people Israel.’”
7 Then Herod summoned the wise men secretly and ascertained from them what time the star had appeared. [Herod found out it had been two years since they had seen the star that first night, hence his orders to kill ever male child in Bethlehem, two years and under.]
8 And he sent them to Bethlehem, saying, “Go and search diligently for the child, and when you have found him, bring me word, that I too may come and worship him.”
9 After listening to the king, they went on their way. And behold, the star that they had seen when it rose went before them until it came to rest over the place where the child was.
10 When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy.
11 And going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures , they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.
12 And being warned in a dream not to return to Herod, they departed to their own country by another way.
13 Now when they had departed, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, “Rise, take the child and his mother, and flee to Egypt, and remain there until I tell you, for Herod is about to search for the child, to destroy him.”
14 And he rose and took the child and his mother by night and departed to Egypt
15 and remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet, “Out of Egypt I called my son.”
Most people know that the Wise Men were from the TRIBE of MAGI, the same tribe as Daniel after he confirmed that King Nebuchadnezzar's dream, and what it meant, was appoint to be chief governor over the Wise Men.
Daniel 2:48 (ASV)
48 Then the king made Daniel great, and gave him many great gifts, and made him to rule over the whole province of Babylon, and to be chief governor over all the wise men of Babylon.
They remembered the Prophecy, while ISRAEL had forgotten it.
Here are a few of the fictitious images, that formed a lot of our false images of the Wise Men.
Not only did Artists not pay much attention to the Details in Scripture, but the TOTALLY ignored researching the Tribe of Magi, in the history books. So a lot of the details that I will explain come from the history books about the Tribe of Magi. But in the BIBLE is says they arrived at a HOUSE where Mary and the young Child were. Joseph was a Carpenter and no you for them at the INN only spelled WORK FOR A CARPENTER. His own house, would have been the first things He built.
They were NOT THREE KINGS, they were the Tribe of Wise Men, that some of them hired out to kingdoms throughout Mid East. They were Hired to be their Wise Men, because they had STUDIED EVERY THING THAT WAS CALLED WISDOM AT THEIR TIME. They also conducted Coronation Ceremony of New Kings. They were from the area west of the Caspian Sea and south of the Caspian Sea, and as far south west as Babylon. Wise Men from the east, is general direction, NOT A SPECIFIC DIRECTION, therefore it includes everything from northeast through the southeast.
So the land of the Tribe of Magi, would be predominantly everything west of the Caspian Sea and southern edge of the Caspian Sea. A few hired themselves out as Wise Men, but the majority were focused on was perfect for their major cash crop. No, not grain, but their Tribe raised Arabian Horses to sell to most of the countries in the MID EAST as War Horses.
Now why would men from that tribe ride CAMELS? THEY DID NOT, it never mentioned what they rode in the Bible, that idea was spawned in the imagination of the artists. Not only that, they NEVER WENT ANYWHERE with less than 10 Magi, and with boxes of treasure on board, they would bring a Detachment of WARRIORS of at least a 100 men, know to be fiercest Warriors in the land, to protect the Treasure. Now picture this, ISRAEL was at war at that time, so the ARMY IS OUT OF TOWN, and the only protection for the KING of ISRAEL was his Palace Guard. And in town comes at least 10 Magi, known to conduct Coronation Ceremony's, with at least a 100 Armed Guards, and HEROD hears from the Magi, “Where is he who has been born king of the Jews?"
And you may say, yeah but there is a great deal of sand east of Jerusalem, how can horses cross that? It does not say they crossed the desert to get to Jerusalem. Artists only imaged it. Up north there is a fertile Valley with rivers, that comes clear across to northern part of Lebanon. That is the direction they would have traveled. Why did it take two years for them to arrive in Jerusalem? They had to ride from Village to Village in their Country to Collect the HOMAGE for the New King, that is their Tradition. That's right, they were NOT BIRTHDAY GIFTS, but Homage to the New King. Gold and frankincense and myrrh is the traditional Homage for a New King, at least one Treasure Box full of each one, for the New King. Enough valuable treasure to feed them in exile until Herod died.
If you call picture ten men dressed like this winner of the Mid East Horsemans Association Horse Show, you may have a lot more accurate idea of what the real Wise Men may have looked like.
View attachment 208770
And like Paul Harvey use to say:
"And Now . . . . . You know the rest of the Story."
I am sorry about the TYPOS in the above post. I proofed it twice, and apparently I read what I think I typed, such as:
no you for them at the INN instead of:
no room for them at the INN.
I really hate getting old, because to those kind of mistakes happen more frequently now.
Merry Christmas Everyone!
Actually, the passage says perseverance (and character) comes through suffering.
"suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope." - Romans 5:3,4
Lots of Christians think they can skip right to the 'hope' part. I don't like suffering any more than the next guy, and I do everything I can that isn't a sin to avoid it, but the stark truth is if your Christianity is not bringing suffering into your life that changes you, then you have no hope. You most likely have been short circuiting the process with sin.
"21 Beware of turning to evil, which you seem to prefer to affliction." - Job 36:21
This is probably one of the hardest lessons in Christianity. We've been called to forsake, through faith in Christ, the personal comfort of sin in order to live out the righteousness God has given us. But we've made that truth about Christianity go away with misguided and devilish doctrines that dismiss that responsibility and which, in the end leave us in our old, faithless lives, unchanged, but now without the warning bell of the conviction of our wrongdoing. Because, to think that we have that responsibility would make salvation by works, and besides, you've been picked to be a saved person anyway, and there's nothing you or the devil can do about it.
Tell me we're not in the end times.
"suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope." - Romans 5:3,4
Lots of Christians think they can skip right to the 'hope' part. I don't like suffering any more than the next guy, and I do everything I can that isn't a sin to avoid it, but the stark truth is if your Christianity is not bringing suffering into your life that changes you, then you have no hope. You most likely have been short circuiting the process with sin.
"21 Beware of turning to evil, which you seem to prefer to affliction." - Job 36:21
This is probably one of the hardest lessons in Christianity. We've been called to forsake, through faith in Christ, the personal comfort of sin in order to live out the righteousness God has given us. But we've made that truth about Christianity go away with misguided and devilish doctrines that dismiss that responsibility and which, in the end leave us in our old, faithless lives, unchanged, but now without the warning bell of the conviction of our wrongdoing. Because, to think that we have that responsibility would make salvation by works, and besides, you've been picked to be a saved person anyway, and there's nothing you or the devil can do about it.
Tell me we're not in the end times.
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You don't think you have to consciously continue to believe in the gospel to be saved? Perhaps you do, but think it just happens because saved people have been picked out by God to believe and so your believing just happens on it's own?
Fellowship and growth happen by faith in God.
And it doesn't happen by not having faith in God.
Fellowship and growth are directly connected to continuing to believe in the truths about heaven and hell, salvation and damnation. Careless or intentional disregard for these truths will lead you back to your old, unsaved, sinful life.
And the leaven of Calvin's latter day teachings are helping lots of people do that.
Fellowship and growth happen by faith in God.
And it doesn't happen by not having faith in God.
Fellowship and growth are directly connected to continuing to believe in the truths about heaven and hell, salvation and damnation. Careless or intentional disregard for these truths will lead you back to your old, unsaved, sinful life.
And the leaven of Calvin's latter day teachings are helping lots of people do that.
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Not everyone sees it as beautifully as you, some take liberties, while others lose faith when tragedy strikes. 
When God sends us trials , these are the times when our faith is tested , like when Peter took his eyes of Jesus and began to sink , he cried out LORD , save me...
So many people " claim " the name of the Lord in the good times when they standing on the mountain , but as soon as the floods come they run away from God blaming Him , because like I said , they are standing on the sinking sand , not on our LORD...
Merry Christmas\
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The SEED of Faith is given by God to us initially. However it is up to US to exercise this. This SEED is also MORE THAN ENOUGH.
Look at this interaction between the disciples and Jesus:
Luke 17
4 And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns [d]to you, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him.”
5 And the apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith.” 6 So the Lord said, “If you have faith as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be pulled up by the roots and be planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you.
What is Jesus saying? He is saying "I have already given you what you need - exercise it!"
And look at another place:
Matthew 17
17 Then Jesus answered and said, “O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I bear with you? Bring him here to Me.” 18 And Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of him; and the child was cured from that very hour.
19 Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, “Why could we not cast it out?”
20 So Jesus said to them, “Because of your unbelief; for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you.
In summary
>Jesus gives us the seed of faith
>We are to exercise it.
Look at this interaction between the disciples and Jesus:
Luke 17
4 And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns [d]to you, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him.”
5 And the apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith.” 6 So the Lord said, “If you have faith as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be pulled up by the roots and be planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you.
What is Jesus saying? He is saying "I have already given you what you need - exercise it!"
And look at another place:
Matthew 17
17 Then Jesus answered and said, “O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I bear with you? Bring him here to Me.” 18 And Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of him; and the child was cured from that very hour.
19 Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, “Why could we not cast it out?”
20 So Jesus said to them, “Because of your unbelief; for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you.
In summary
>Jesus gives us the seed of faith
>We are to exercise it.
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They lose faith because their faith was not grounded on the Rock , but on sinking sand...
When God sends us trials , these are the times when our faith is tested , like when Peter took his eyes of Jesus and began to sink , he cried out LORD , save me...
So many people " claim " the name of the Lord in the good times when they standing on the mountain , but as soon as the floods come they run away from God blaming Him , because like I said , they are standing on the sinking sand , not on our LORD...
Merry Christmas\/...
When God sends us trials , these are the times when our faith is tested , like when Peter took his eyes of Jesus and began to sink , he cried out LORD , save me...
So many people " claim " the name of the Lord in the good times when they standing on the mountain , but as soon as the floods come they run away from God blaming Him , because like I said , they are standing on the sinking sand , not on our LORD...
Merry Christmas\
/...