Not By Works

[stillness]

He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

Good morning brother.
I'm convinced we are all Loved as we are and it's what frees us to go on to more Light. If we would be dictated to changed the natural thing is to run away. The saying goes its God's Love that turns enemies into friends and most of us are slow to learn.
The Holy Spirit leads us in the Truth: the only thing that can't be forgiven is not learning to Love from Him. "All maner of sin shall be forgiven to man but rejecting rhe Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. If we learn to Love and forgive then we are forgiven
Except those who won't Learn and yes that includes Catholics and Budists I forgive them to. After all my wife to be is Catholic. I forgive my beother who is learning ro love but dosent know Jesus as well after all I hardly know Him miself. If you need references of where the sins of the Fathers are no longer passed on the children or proclaing deliverance let me know, but I think you will do well as long as you forgive your enemies.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

the peoples reply...

vs 34 - Then they said to Him, “Lord, give us this bread always.”

they wanted that bread of life, or were they still looking for physical bread?

Jesus Reply...

vs 35 - 40 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.

Notice, it does not say eat bread at the eucharist. or the bread of the last supper where Jesus says take eat this is my body. which he said eat often, it says come TO HIM, and BELIEVE or have LIVING FAITH in HIM, And whoever does this, they will never hunger or thirst (because the food which they eat, again, endures to eternal life or forever, ie, its life giving power NEVER fades.

36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe.

Right here Jesus shows us why they could not understand, They did not believe!

37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

1. Jesus says, "I am the bread of life" I am the one who gives eternal life.
2. He who comes shall never hunger. this is he who hears the words of God and takes them in (eats them) and notice, all we have to do come, Once we come, HE WILL NEVER CAST US OUT
3. he who believes will never thirst (this is he who hears the words and believes. For they are given spiritual water, or the holy spirit)
4. All who the father has promised the son, from adam till the last man living, Will come to jesus, And jesus will save them, He will resurect them at the last day.
5. This is the bread of life. and the will of the father, "everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

peoples response...

vs 41 - 42 - The Jews then complained about Him, because He said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.” And they said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He says, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”

1. the people were trying to take Jesus literaly, and not figuratively or spiritually,
2. because they could not understand, they rejected his words as foolishness. (the things of God are foolish to those who are not his, who are not his? Those who do not believe)

 

[PS]

Umm, well are you going to discuss scripture or what?

1 Thessalonians 5:21 King James Version (KJV)
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
King James Version (KJV)

He does discuss scripture, the whole time.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus reply...

vs 44 - 51 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

1. remember before jesus said eternal life was given if they trusted the god of heaven who sent jesus, He also said eternal life came from those who came to him and believed in him
2, now he confuses them even more,which hardens their hearts even more, and the ones who will be left will be the ones who truely believe.
3. the people who come to christ are taught by God the father, it is he who gives them understanding.
4. again he reiterates, he who believes in christ (whether them who have seen him, or us who have not) will have eternal life.
5. He again says, " I am the bread of life " and states a fact, the people who ate the manna are physically dead, the people who eat the spiritual life, will live eternally in spiritual terms,, they will still die, so jesus is not talking in physical, but spiritual terms.
6. Jesus tells exactly what the bread is. His death on the cross, For it is his death burial and ressurection that has paid the price God demands from us, he took the penalty for us, and paid the debt we owe God..Again, he is talking spiritually not physically..

peoples response...

vs 52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?”

1. Again the people are confused, they are trying to understand what jesus saying as physical not spiritual. just like when they tried to take jesus physical body when he said he is the bread from heaven, (speaking spiritually)

Jesus reply.

vs 53 - 58 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is food indeed,and My blood is drink indeed. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

1. Again speaking spiritually here, jesus comes back at them saying unless we eat of his body and drink his blood, we shall not see life (eternally or spiritually)
2. Again the people, thinking literally and not spiritually, were offended, thinking Jesus meant to literally eat his Physical flesh and drink his Physical blood.

Even some disciples are offended..

vs 60 - 60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a hard saying; who can understand it?”

Jesus reply...

vs 61 -63 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

1. Jesus reafirms that it is the spirit who gives life, Again trying to show them that it is spiritual in nature. It is the word of God which Gives life.
2. He says that the flesh profits nothing. the literal interpretation of Jesus being bread, and we have to literally eat him is no better than eating the spiritual manna, Listen to what he is saying spiritually. not taking it literally.

continuing...

vs 64 - But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.” From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.

1, due to their lack of belief, or hard hearts, many walked away because of their misinterpretation.
2. One, who stays now, still does not believe but he will leave before it is over (judas)
This also PROVES God knows who really believes, and who does not believe. Those who do not believe will not come. And is why jesus said, he who does not believe is condemned because they have not believed

Jesus response to those who are left...

vs 67 - 71 - Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?” But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.

1. Peter responds that he knows what Christ meant by the bread, the flesh and the blood. "You have the words of eternal life. Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God
2. It is the words of Christ, and who he is and what he is going to do that is the bread of life. Not the physical body and blood.
3. Note also later after christs death, peter confirms this message, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God" even after he denies christ.. Peter understands totaly that it is the words of Christ, and what he did in our place that is the bread of life, And is the bread which gives eternal life.
4. Jesus confirms here, That it was him who chose them (drew them out) and later, when Peter re-replyes these remarks remembering this day, jesus confirms by saying it is upon that belief, it is upon that bread of life, it is upon that rock that his church will be built on. Again speaking spiritually (bread) and not literally (peter)

conclusion. This passage totally destroys NOSAS,

1. The only labor God requires is to seek after this "food" which endures forever
2. This food is Jesus himself the bread from heaven
3. whoever seeks is led by God himself. and when they come they will, as Jesus himself stated

Never hunger or thirst
Never die
Live forever
HAS eternal life
Will live as long as Jesus (our high priest) lives (he will never die so neither will we)
Will NEVER be tossed out
WILL be ressurected
WILL never be lost.

 

[Chris1975]

As promised I know it is long. but it is a long passage.

John 6.. We have to read this in context. In the narrative, Jesus had just fed 5000, Now. the following day. They labor to come to find Jesus, However, we see from Jesus first words. they did not come because they wanted to see or listen to Jesus, they came to be fed again

John 6: 26 - 27 Jesus answered them and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”

we see a few things.
1. The people did not come to Jesus because they wanted to hear what he had to say, they wanted fed (literal food)
2. Jesus tells them not to search for food which dies, but search for the food that gives eternal life.
3. Jesus is able to give them that food, Because God the father has given him the seal (the holy spirit remember back when John Baptized him and the holy spirit entered him)

Continuing...

vs 28 - 29 : Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

1. they asked Jesus what works they had to do to receive this eternal life (or the food that endures to eternal life)
2. Jesus gave the one answer - BELIEVE IN HIM WHO SENT ME. (this is the bread.)
3. In claiming it was the work of God. this proves that there are NO WORKS which one can do which will endure to eternal life. That our only lablor is seek for this food. We will find out later. It is God who does the work of showing who he is so we can make a decision.

continuing...

vs 30. 30 Therefore they said to Him, “What sign will You perform then, that we may see it and believe You? What work will You do? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’”

amazing, they saw Jesus take 5 loaves of bread and two fish, and fed 5000, yet that was not sign enough? they wanted more proof? This shows the worlds thinking and the hardness of their hearts, that even though we may see a miracle, the miracle is not enough. The pharisees saw Jesus raise Lazarus, yet they still where hard hearted. The Jews saw all the miracles God performed through Moses. Yet they were heard hearted.

Jesus answer...

vs 32 - 33 - Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

1. Jesus said Moses did not do the work, God did it.
2. God is the one who sent manna, Just Like God is the one who sent Christ.
3. All the Israelite's had to do was eat the manna to stay alive,, be fed for the day.
4. all we have to do to live spiritually or have eternal life is eat the true bread sent from heaven, which is Christ

Yes, I don't disagree with anything you have just posted.
Where we diverge is that you are of the opinion that:
1) a One Time Belief is sufficient, whereas I believe that you are to Continually Believe.
2) a lifestyle of disobedience is no risk to your eternal security (because you cannot become unsaved), whereas my position is that you are to repent and put to death the misdeeds of the body.
3) you (possibly) believe that sin doesn't actually exist anymore, whereas I believe there is a war between the flesh and the Spirit, by which your Soul is faced with a choice daily to live according to the Spirit so as not to fulfill the lusts of the flesh
4) You believe apostasy (falling away) is not possible. I believe there is scriptural evidence that apostasy can occur.
5) You believe in eternal security NO MATTER WHAT someone does thereafter, I believe in Eternal Security to those who continue in the Faith.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

For example, when someone says you can stop believing in Christ, and to any extent, and you are still saved no matter what.

Who says this?

If you are not believing you are rejecting christ, and thus a antichrist

John said they were never saved.

So anyone who thinks they are still saved is confused

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The boasting of what one has and does comes from where?

From pride
From knowledge that they have done something to save them self.
From lack of knowledge that they have no power to do anything to save themself. Even belief comes from and is maintained by the work of God continuing to prove himself faithful.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thank you for the reply I believe focusing on the Spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. What about the part that says those who do such things won't inherit the kingdom of God? Do you take that to mean only those who do not receive Jesus, or those believers who persist in it? Because Paul says be not deceived, highlighting this is important for us to know. Or maybe you take it to mean inherit the Kingdom as in: Inherit the millennial kingdom (If you are premillennial.
Am I right on any of these guesses?

Have a great time whatever you are going to do, it is Christmas season after all.

I think where people differ is what is the kingdom of God

some think this means they will not go to heaven (NOSAS)
Some think it is life here on earth, and the blessings God wants to give their children while we are here (OSAS)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Keep focuses on the issue raised. Look at Saul. Look what happened to him.

What happens to all who become prodigal children

they lose their blessings, their earthly home, and many, their physical lives.

Sorry, Saul does not support your position

 

[eternally-gratefull]

He changed. He fell back. Bible is clear that God gave him a new heart. He was a new man (see above). God was with him. Yet he fell back. All you need to know about Saul was made clear in the scriptures.

Then God Departed from him.

This happened alot in the OT, they never had the seal of the spirit, promised UNTIL they day of the redemption

 

[eternally-gratefull]

OK, working with your analogy, you said both get convicted, both accept Christ, both leave thinking they are saved. Then you proceed into a sanctification role for one of the believers. So here is my question. When did this believer (pursuing sanctification) receive JUSTIFICATION? During the process? Or at the start?

If at the start, then so too should the other believer have been justified when he called upon Christ. Not so?

One had living faith when he accepted Christ
One had mere belief, He believed, But he had no faith.

Living faith works

Non living faith does not. has no power. and will fade away (the departed because they were never of us)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

you are missing the point . ( as others have also told you).

the point is, that only TRUE believers are saved. not everyone who professes to believe does not really believe.

one is only justified if they TRULY believe.

Saul was never a true believer. God departed from Him.

David was a true believer. he committed adultery, conspired to have a man killed, and did not confess and ask for forgiveness until he was confronted. yet God never left him.

see the difference??

Amen John 6 makes this clear

Whoever comes will never be cast out.

It does not mean they ALL will become super mature christians, Some may never grow up much at all and remain babes in Christ, But they are STILL in Christ

 

[NayborBear]

It is in fact the very proof text in all the Bible that convinces me that salvation can be lost. And it's that with no twisting whatsoever.

Hebrews 10:26
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Thing of it is? There really is a "sacrifice for sin." Namely, the self "spiritual sacrifice/s", mentioned here:

1 Peter 2
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Which "pays" the "debt" incurred here:

Matthew 5
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

The reason, or I should say "a" reason OSAS is so "dangerous", is that many many times they are "steered", when not "forced" to adopt this mindset:

Isaiah 28
15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

By "these" kinds of people within their own midst:

Jude
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

These "kinds and types" of people are what's called "willingly ignorant" several times in the N.T. God Himself referred to these "types" in the O.T. as "Jeshurun!" And defines this "moniker" here:

Deuteronomy 32
5 They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation.
15 But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.
16 They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger.
17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.
18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.
19 And when the Lord saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.
20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.
21 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.
22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
23 I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them.
24 They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust.
25 The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs.
26 I said, I would scatter them into corners, I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men:
27 Were it not that I feared the wrath of the enemy, lest their adversaries should behave themselves strangely, and lest they should say, Our hand is high, and the Lord hath not done all this.
28 For they are a nation void of counsel, neither is there any understanding in them.
29 O that they were wise, that they understood this, that they would consider their latter end! (note Matt. 7:21-23)
36 For the Lord shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that their power is gone, and there is none shut up, or left.
37 And he shall say, Where are their gods, their rock in whom they trusted,
38 Which did eat the fat of their sacrifices, and drank the wine of their drink offerings? let them rise up and help you, and be your protection.
39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever.

This is why OSAS is so dangerous!:
Ezekiel 13
22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The difference was in both Saul's case and David's case, they were confronted by a prophet of God. David immediately owned up to it. Saul dodged and squired and tried to find any and every avenue not to accept accountability. That's the difference.

Any doctrine that doesnt fit OSAS becomes a defense of "well he/she wasnt really a believer to start off with" depite dozens of scriptures talking about believers falling away. Its a default protective mode to not accept the truth of this matter.

You didnt answer the question I posed to your original analogy: Here it is again:

OK, working with your analogy, you said both get convicted, both accept Christ, both leave thinking they are saved. Then you proceed into a sanctification role for one of the believers. So here is my question. When did this believer (pursuing sanctification) receive JUSTIFICATION? During the process? Or at the start?

If at the start, then so too should the other believer have been justified when he called upon Christ. Not so?

Strawman

We can easily say there are MANY MANY verses that destroy NOSAS. yet what would that accomplish? Nothing

If you want to talk about verses. talk. Please stop with these strawman arguments, they do not support your case. and add nothign to the conversation.

 

[NayborBear]

Nice try, but false....the work of faith he began in US <-----KEY WORD.....US!!!

Yeah! I know! Misery enjoys company!
Right?

 

[TooFastTurtle]

Could I get into this conversation, too? I hope you do mind?

I will post the most frequent verses that support OSAS, in a separate Post after this post.

But your question of the two portions of Scripture should be answered first, AND we must realize that Mat. 7:13-27, has a lot to do with it.

In Gal. 5:19-21 you absolutely have to read the THE WHOLE CONTEXT, to precisely understand what HE IS SAYING.

Galatians 5:11-26 (HCSB)
11 Now brothers, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished.
12 I wish those who are disturbing you might also get themselves castrated!
13 For you were called to be free, brothers; only don’t use this freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but serve one another through love.
14 For the entire law is fulfilled in one statement: Love your neighbor as yourself.
15 But if you bite and devour one another, watch out, or you will be consumed by one another.
16 I say then, walk by the Spirit and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
17 For the flesh desires what is against the Spirit, and the Spirit desires what is against the flesh; these are opposed to each other, so that you don’t do what you want.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, moral impurity, promiscuity,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambitions, dissensions, factions,
21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and anything similar. I tell you about these things in advance—as I told you before—that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is [Agape, Rom. 5:5] love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith,
23 gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law.
24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 Since we live by the Spirit, we must also follow the Spirit.
26 We must not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

Now it is much easier to understand what Paul is saying. He is confronting Judaisers, who were falsely saying men had to Circumcised before they can become a Christian. All he was saying is exactly what JESUS taught in Mat. Chapter 7. That when you truly have COME to KNOW HIM intimately, receiving HIM as LORD, meaning MASTER; that BORN AGAIN EXPERIENCE will change you, because YOU will have a NEW NATURE in your Human Spirit. The verses you quoted are the typical old Nature of someone who has NOT been Born Again. The NATURE, is the DOMINANT LIFESTYLE CHARACTERISTICS, of the person in question. YES, we SIN, but as a Christian Matures, we will sin LESS, and LESS, and LESS. It is not the DOMINANT LIFESTYLE CHARACTERISTICS to continue to SIN like the Old Human Nature.

Matthew 7:23 (HCSB)
23 Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’

That is referring to the Born Again experience, when the Holy Spirit birthed our Human Spirit, and gave it a NEW NATURE, which is described in Gal. 5:22-26.

Matthew 7:20 (HCSB)
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.

Christ said we can recognize whether or not a person has been Born Again, just by examining their FRUIT. FIRST you have to realize a baby Christian does not produce much fruit. So you have to watch someone for maybe a year or more to find out if the FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT, is starting to manifest itself. If you see NOTHING but bad fruit such as an unhealthy interest in:
hatreds, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambitions, dissensions, factions, envy, etc.; then you can be certain that they have never been born again, YET. If you can detect Self Sacrificial love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, gentleness, self-control, as their New Nature, even if in your opinion they have some things wrong, you should respect him as a Christian Brother.

Your other question on 1 Corinthians 6:9-11:

There are a number of SINS listed in these verses, but remember they are not one time sins, but they are UNREPENTANT, or LIFESTYLE OF SINNING. A great deal of confusion between the GREEK TEXT and the ENGLISH TEXT lies in the FACT, that the Greeks have six Primary Verb Tenses, where as in English, we only have three Primary Verb Tenses. Such a verb is:

1 John 2:4 (HCSB)
4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” yet doesn't keep His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.


That Greek Verb "Keep", does not imply PERFECTION, but an ongoing lifestyle of striving to KEEP. So English is a POOR Language at Best, to translate the Bible into. No I am not a Greek Scholar, but I know the TOOLS and How to look the TENSES up in them.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (HCSB)
9 Don’t you know that the unrighteous will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be deceived: No sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, or anyone practicing homosexuality,
10 no thieves, greedy people, drunkards, verbally abusive people, or swindlers will inherit God’s kingdom.
11 And some of you used to be like this. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


Therefore the first clue to how to properly interpret these scriptures, is the WORD unrighteous. Paul knows and preached that we inherit the RIGHTEOUSNESS of Christ, when we are Born Again. Therefore he is talking about Unrepentant Sinners that have NEVER BEEN SAVED. AND some of us USED TO LIKE THAT. But we were Born Again, and now our NEW NATURE in our HUMAN SPIRIT, is Characterized by the FRUIT of the SPIRIT: Agape love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, gentleness, self-control, and the like. Remember A Born Again Christian is one who sins LESS, and Less, and LESS.

And you may want to say, "But what about verses that seem to imply a Christian does not SIN."


1 Thessalonians 4:7 (HCSB)
7 For God has not called us to impurity but to sanctification.

Sanctification is a lifelong process where we will strive to get the SIN out of our lives, and we will not be perfect until the we get the Glorified Body, in the Resurrection. Interestingly, the New Century Version, words that verse this way:

1 Thessalonians 4:7 (NCV)
7 God called us to be holy and does not want us to live in sin.

Romans 6:12 (ESV)
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions.

Again it does not mean we can be SINLESS, but it does mean we do not let it Reign or Dominate us.

1 John 3:9 (HCSB)
9 Everyone who has been born of God does not sin, because His seed remains in him; he is not able to sin, because he has been born of God.

Again that does not imply PERFECTION, but a Lifestyle of Striving to do no sin, even though we are not PERFECT. You will find that John is VERY FOND of the Greek Perfect Tense (not the English meaning of that word perfection), but HE USES IT A LOT, and also the AORIST TENSE, which carries a similar Meaning. Neither of which we have in ENGLISH.

I will post the PRIMARY Verses that SUPPORT OSAS FAITH, in my next Post.

Thank you so much sir. This is the best response I have ever gotten on the verses I asked about. Good commentary and plenty of Scripture, not just memes and opinions. I like it! This is the kind of OSAS that I can agree with. What Church are you a part of?

I appreciate your respectful tone as well friend. Thanks for that.

I will dedicate more of my time to studying this, as I am always open to the idea of being wrong on any given subject, I just try to be honest with myself and the Scriptures.

 

[TooFastTurtle]

Strawman

We can easily say there are MANY MANY verses that destroy NOSAS. yet what would that accomplish? Nothing

If you want to talk about verses. talk. Please stop with these strawman arguments, they do not support your case. and add nothign to the conversation.

Can you show me those verses? If you did not see the message I sent to Bill, I want to send this out here to you so you see it as you were a target of my too snappy messages. Bill's message caused me to delete one I just sent, previous ones I could not delete, I had no issue with me dealing with the topic at hand, but I wish to take back how personal I took it and how I spoke to you as if I was dealing with a non-believer, that was out of line, despite doctrinal disagreements we are all Christians here.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Romans 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, [e]goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

>Those who stand in Faith, as described above, are to continue in God's goodness, otherwise they will be cut off.
>Bottom line is: There are those who are found in faith at some point, and some of these are cut off due to their disobedience which leads to unbelief.

The context of romans 11 is the nation of Israel vs the Gentile nations

It is NOT individual salvation

For god did not spare Israel. If you (gentiles) do not continue he will cut you off too.


so does not support what you are saying

 

[eternally-gratefull]

@mailmandan , how do you know you are a partaker of Christ since you have not yet fulfilled that which once saved always saved says shows you to be a partaker of Christ?

You jumped out of the frying pan of Catholic works salvation and into the fire of once saved always saved salvation. I'm hoping you come up to the middle between the two where you are saved today if you believe today.

You are still bogged down in a pseudo catholic works based salvation. I would worry about myself. and not a person who trusts in christ to keep his promise inspite of that persons own shortcomings.

In fact, It would benefit you to start realising your shortcomings so you also can fall on your knees.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

yes I did.

once again, one only gets justified if one truly believes. just because someone professes to believe does NOT mean that they truly believe.

They can not seem to comprehend this

There is a difference between MERE agreement (belief) and true living faith (see James 2)