You are right my friend, it needs to tweak the word of God to really suit its purpose. Adding and subtracting God's clear words are tactics, I've seen while conversing with those who have Calvinistic view.
John 3:16-18 is not about God's universal love (there is no such thing).
- Thread starter Flint321
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Yet the natural man is unable to discern...isn't your statement is a self dissolve? I still fail to see your respond "how one is regenerated"
Election
Union between Christ and his people was planned already in eternity, in the sovereign pretemporal decision whereby God the Father selected certain sinners as His own. Christ himself was chosen to be our Savior before the creation of the world (1 Pet. 1:20); When the Father chose Christ, he also chose us (Ephesians 1:4). We are initially united with Christ in regeneration; next we appropriate and continue to live out of this union through faith. Third, we are justified in union with Christ. Fourth, we are sanctified through union with Christ. Fifth, we persevere in the life of faith in union with Christ. Finally, we shall be eternally glorified with Christ.
This pretemporal choice was not based on the fact that God knew which persons would believe of their own free will, for there is no person which fits that description. This decision was based upon God's sovereign good pleasure alone. It is God's gracious decision, from eternity past, to save fallen souls of His own choosing. Therefore, God will infallibly bring all of His elect to final perseverance and eternal life (Phil 1:6; John 10:29; Rom 8:30; John 6:37, 39). The Persons of the Trinity work in harmony to accomplish and apply salvation. The Father, from eternity, elects a particular people for Himself (Ephesians 1:4, 5; Rom 8:29, 30) Christ redeems those the Father has "given Him" (John 6:37, 39; 10:29) and the Holy Spirit likewise applies the redemptive benefits of the atonement to the same. (John 1:13; 6:63; James 1:18, 1 Peter 1:23,25).
Here is a an epic doctrine statement from https://www.monergism.com/our-faith i recommend their statement of faith to other worm brothers and sisters in Christ!
Its great because its like a the Westminister confession but for the modern layman, great truths, be blessed in Jesus mighty name!
Union between Christ and his people was planned already in eternity, in the sovereign pretemporal decision whereby God the Father selected certain sinners as His own. Christ himself was chosen to be our Savior before the creation of the world (1 Pet. 1:20); When the Father chose Christ, he also chose us (Ephesians 1:4). We are initially united with Christ in regeneration; next we appropriate and continue to live out of this union through faith. Third, we are justified in union with Christ. Fourth, we are sanctified through union with Christ. Fifth, we persevere in the life of faith in union with Christ. Finally, we shall be eternally glorified with Christ.
This pretemporal choice was not based on the fact that God knew which persons would believe of their own free will, for there is no person which fits that description. This decision was based upon God's sovereign good pleasure alone. It is God's gracious decision, from eternity past, to save fallen souls of His own choosing. Therefore, God will infallibly bring all of His elect to final perseverance and eternal life (Phil 1:6; John 10:29; Rom 8:30; John 6:37, 39). The Persons of the Trinity work in harmony to accomplish and apply salvation. The Father, from eternity, elects a particular people for Himself (Ephesians 1:4, 5; Rom 8:29, 30) Christ redeems those the Father has "given Him" (John 6:37, 39; 10:29) and the Holy Spirit likewise applies the redemptive benefits of the atonement to the same. (John 1:13; 6:63; James 1:18, 1 Peter 1:23,25).
Here is a an epic doctrine statement from https://www.monergism.com/our-faith i recommend their statement of faith to other worm brothers and sisters in Christ!
Its great because its like a the Westminister confession but for the modern layman, great truths, be blessed in Jesus mighty name!
S
selfdissolving
Guest
if you don't delve into the complexities, you're powerless to reconcile verses which seem to contradict each other
I don't have that problem... nor pretend to, as you do.
S
selfdissolving
Guest
i'm open to having a mature theological discussion, but if you would rather take little jabs at me personally, this conversation is over
S
selfdissolving
Guest
I believe God, the creator of all things both seen and unseen (Col 1:16; Gen 1:1; Eph 3:9; Rev 4:11). Created man in his own image (Gen 1:27; Gen 5:1) in righteousness and dignity with the freedom and power to do that which is good (Ecl 7:29, Gen 1:26-31) and yet under a possibility of transgressing, being left to the liberty of his will. By their sin mankind fell from intimacy with God and since Adam & Eve were the root of mankind this sin was imputed to all their descendants. Due to the effects of the fall (of Adam) on the mind and will, man's spiritual condition by nature is such that he is dead in trespasses and sins, enslaved to sin, wholly incapable and unwilling to come to God (1 Cor 2:14, Rom 8:7, John 3:19), and under the wrath of God. (Eph.2:1-3; Titus 3:3; 2 Tim.2:26). As such, man is utterly incapable of saving himself, or even to cooperate with God in his salvation. He does not possess the inclination, desire or ability to turn himself to God since he loves & prefers the darkness. Since man is depraved by nature, and will thus inevitably make choices in accordance with that nature, his "free will" will always choose to reject God, apart from God's grace.
https://www.monergism.com/our-faith
https://www.monergism.com/our-faith
L
Locoponydirtman
Guest
The problem here is that there is a serious misunderstanding of Love.
The presumption that love some how is the antithesis of anger or even wrath; even worse that love excludes punishment. When it I quite the contrary.
This is not surprising since Disney and Hallmark has co-opted the word love and perverted the meaning.
There are two meanings for love anymore and they are both wrong, yet we cling to them as if it is life it's self. One being that love is soft fuzzy tingle time the other is (well with out trying to put too fine of a point on it ) ,.. Sex.
Sadly Christians have bought into this notion as well.
The presumption that love some how is the antithesis of anger or even wrath; even worse that love excludes punishment. When it I quite the contrary.
This is not surprising since Disney and Hallmark has co-opted the word love and perverted the meaning.
There are two meanings for love anymore and they are both wrong, yet we cling to them as if it is life it's self. One being that love is soft fuzzy tingle time the other is (well with out trying to put too fine of a point on it ) ,.. Sex.
Sadly Christians have bought into this notion as well.
Being regenerated, being born again, given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. All three of these are included when God takes the heart of stone out of the natural man and replaces it with a fleshy heart, Eze 36:26. Eph 2 explains how this procedure is accomplished, while the natural man is still dead, spiritually, and unable to respond to the things of the Spirit, Eph 2:5.
Because in spite of its truth their tradition (which shaped this errant teaching) and pride will not allow them to see and admit their error. This is what anthropocentric teachings lead to: false teachings which sound good to them on the surface yet are inherently erroneous man made doctrines.Notice how not one person has addressed this spot on post of yours?
really?
But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)
(Ephesians 2:4-5)
(Ephesians 2:4-5)
what words do i have to add? this literally says He made us alive while we were dead in sin.
Don’t forget the Scripture that came before this.
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
1. Hear the gospel
2. Believe/trust the gospel
3. Sealed by Holy Spirit
i'm failing to see how that means i have to add any words whatsoever to Ephesians 2 in order to "make it say" that He made us alive while we were dead in sin.
And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins
(Ephesians 2:1)
(Ephesians 2:1)
In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
(Ephesians 1:11-12)
0. predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will
1. Hear the gospel
2. Believe/trust the gospel
3. Sealed by Holy Spirit
He made us alive in Christ after we heard and trusted the gospel. We were dead in trespasses and sins, we heard the gospel, we trusted the gospel, then He quickened us.