Not By Works

[Chris1975]

Your belief is that a Once off belief (OSAS) is sufficient, ignoring all of the other scriptures which implore us to HOLD ON to the Faith, NOT DRAW BACK etc. To those who BELIEVE, all of those other promises YOU are quoting are true. But to someone who draws back, they are no longer true.

Saul is a good example of such a person, who started off well under God's Graces and led by the Spirit. Yet Saul's end was not the same as his beginning. His Disobedience caused his downfall.

1 Samuel 10
6 Then the Spirit of the Lord will come upon you, and you will prophesy with them and be turned into another man. 7 And let it be, when these signs come to you, that you do as the occasion demands; for God is with you. 8 You shall go down before me to Gilgal; and surely I will come down to you to offer burnt offerings and make sacrifices of peace offerings. Seven days you shall wait, till I come to you and show you what you should do.”

9 So it was, when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, that God [c]gave him another heart; and all those signs came to pass that day. 10 When they came there to the hill, there was a group of prophets to meet him; then the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them. 11 And it happened, when all who knew him formerly saw that he indeed prophesied among the prophets, that the people said to one another, “What is this that has come upon the son of Kish? Is Saul also among the prophets?”

 

[Lightskin]

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Sounds like salvation isn't so much a given, as it is Christ's gospel, is the way UNTO salvation.

Christ is the way unto salvation. If you have faith in Him you have salvation. But I digress; only priests understand the fullness of God’s FREE GIFT.

 

[TooFastTurtle]

Saul is a good example of such a person, who started off well under God's Graces and led by the Spirit. Yet Saul's end was not the same as his beginning. His Disobedience caused his downfall.

1 Samuel 10
6 Then the Spirit of the Lord will come upon you, and you will prophesy with them and be turned into another man. 7 And let it be, when these signs come to you, that you do as the occasion demands; for God is with you. 8 You shall go down before me to Gilgal; and surely I will come down to you to offer burnt offerings and make sacrifices of peace offerings. Seven days you shall wait, till I come to you and show you what you should do.”

9 So it was, when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, that God [c]gave him another heart; and all those signs came to pass that day. 10 When they came there to the hill, there was a group of prophets to meet him; then the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them. 11 And it happened, when all who knew him formerly saw that he indeed prophesied among the prophets, that the people said to one another, “What is this that has come upon the son of Kish? Is Saul also among the prophets?”

Indeed Saul is a great example, even the language often used by calvinists is in display. They talk about God giving us a new heart enabling us to repent and believe, and the Scriptures state exactly that God gave him another heart and he will be turned into another man and the Spirit of the Lord will come upon you.

All of this meant nothing in the end, due to Saul disobeying the command letting people live, and God is said to regret making Saul king:

1 Samuel 15:11
"I regret that I made Saul king, for he has turned away from following Me and has not carried out My instructions." So Samuel became angry and cried out to the LORD all night.

After all God did, gave him another heart, Spirit of the Lord upon him, Saul still had a will to obey or disobey, and because he disobeyed, God was regretting making him king and all those promises and all the Spirit of the Lord being upon him and new heart was all for nothing.

That is a sad reality, let this not be us, let us not be the ones who abandon the faith and die in that state. We are not those who shrink back but those who believe unto salvation.

 

[NayborBear]

Christ is the way unto salvation. If you have faith in Him you have salvation. But I digress; only priests understand the fullness of God’s FREE GIFT.

We agree that Christ is the way unto salvation, anyways. And, we agree that only priests "understand" the "fullness" of God's grace!
It's "the course", that is "traveled, and travailed" in the "during and what/where to next?" where Paul, whom I consider not only an Apostle of Christ unto the gentiles, but also a Priest of God as well, gives instructions, of what to do next! While still holding "steadfastly" unto one's "faith IN Christ."
Hebrews 6
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith TOWARD God,

This "step", if you will occurs when one, who has confessed Christ before men? Is confessed before the Father in heaven. The "picking up your cross" from Christ, and "moving beyond."

A step and steps that only the "believer" can do for oneself. Oh sure, others can help in the "bearing of each others burdens", yet, even this can, and has been exploited by the enemies of God and Christ, (namely the spirit of anti-christ) in the "constraining and restraining" of "Spiritual maturity." In a "we ALL go together?" "Or none of us go at all." In a "Christianic Quitetist" promoting of "doctrines."

To which? Sometimes? Too much information, given in "quietist beguilings", is not a good thing!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The operative word is believes in him. Your definition and my definition of believes differ. My definition of Believes is a Living Faith, as opposed to a once off decision at some time in the past (your version).

once again you answer in ignorance or outright refusal to hear.

your wrong, and if you have read my posts you would know this is wrong. I do not believe in mere “belief” as even Desmond believe, mental,agreement that Jesus did live and die will never save you

Hebrews 3
16 For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? 17 Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Belief = Obedience
Disobedience=Unbelief

i have to take it your refusal to look at John 6 and your insistence to look at hebrews means you either are afraid of what john6 says, or you do not understand it

once again, can we discuss John 6, I am done with hebrews, we disagree as I have shown you multiple times I see you takeing It out of context for the reasons I showed (by the way of which you never responded to. Why is this?)

You kept yelling no one would respond, I did, and silence, I also want to discuss john6, silence

all I got was a fabrication or false idea of what I think belief means.

again, why?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your belief is that a Once off belief (OSAS) is sufficient, ignoring all of the other scriptures which implore us to HOLD ON to the Faith, NOT DRAW BACK etc. To those who BELIEVE, all of those other promises YOU are quoting are true. But to someone who draws back, they are no longer true.

No, I believe what the author of hebrews said.

Hebrews 10:39
But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.

unlike those who fall away because they never had living faith, our faith led to,the saving of the soul

as John said, they left us because they were never of us

unlike you, I believe god knows a persons true faith before he saves them. And does not give eternal life to those who, do not have living faith,

 

[Chris1975]

No, I believe what the author of hebrews said.

Hebrews 10:39
But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.

unlike those who fall away because they never had living faith, our faith led to,the saving of the soul

as John said, they left us because they were never of us

unlike you, I believe god knows a persons true faith before he saves them. And does not give eternal life to those who, do not have living faith,

Look at Saul, whom I quoted from 1 Samuel just a few posts ago. Basically upends everything you have just stated here.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Look at Saul, whom I quoted from 1 Samuel just a few posts ago. Basically upends everything you have just stated here.

Nope, you keep thinking you have people when you do not, and you refuse to look at passages others want to look at,

again

why do you not want to discuss John 6? John 6 destroys your whole idea of nosas. Is that why you are afraid of it? .

 

[Chris1975]

Nope, you keep thinking you have people when you do not, and you refuse to look at passages others want to look at,

again

why do you not want to discuss John 6? John 6 destroys your whole idea of nosas. Is that why you are afraid of it? .

Why are you avoiding Saul ? I have anwered your set of scriptures posted earlier. What part of John 6 do you want to discuss?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why are you avoiding Saul ? I have anwered your set of scriptures posted earlier. What part of John 6 do you want to discuss?

I will answer Saul, after you answer John 6 how’s that? I been wanting to discuss john 6 for days. You seem scared of it. Why.

 

[Chris1975]

Here I will post John 6 for you:

26 Jesus answered them and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. 27 Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”

LABOR FOR THE FOOD WHICH ENDURES TO EVERLASTING LIFE. - It is continual. Give us THIS DAY our DAILY BREAD. Its not a once off eat a morsel at conversion and sit back OSAS style.

28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”


29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

To believe is also to obey. Its a lifestyle of obedience. Proof given in Hebrews 3. Also, why do you call me Lord Lord and not DO the things which I say.

30 Therefore they said to Him, “What sign will You perform then, that we may see it and believe You? What work will You do? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’ ”


32 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”


34 Then they said to Him, “Lord, give us this bread always.”


35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me (and remains) shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me (and continues to believe) shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me (and remains with me) I will [f]by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day (make sure your will and the Fathers will are aligned. God doesnt want to lose any. Thats His will. He will not drag you into heaven kicking and screaming against His Will. If you LOVE ME you will OBEY ME). 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

 

[Chris1975]

41 The Jews then [g]complained about Him, because He said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.” 42 And they said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He says, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”


43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, [h]“Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who [i]has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes [j]in Me (and continues to believe) has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness (this was eaten DAILY), and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die (it is also to be eaten DAILY. Give us this day our DAILY BREAD). 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread (continually), he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”


52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?”


53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is [k]food indeed, and My blood is [l]drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me (daily) will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread (daily) will live forever.”




If you ate of the manna in the desert JUST once, and then did not eat again, you would die within a few weeks. It is meant for daily consumption. Just the same, Jesus is the bread of life. We are to eat of Him daily. By not feeding, you will begin to fall away, your fire will dim and your heart will grow cold. The end result is a falling away from the Faith.
You want to appropriate these promises, good, then its a daily walk. Not an OSAS sit back, feet up and chill out, secure that nothing can touch you now. NO. Be vigilant. The devil roams about seeking who he can devour. When the Israelites walked through the desert, it was the stragglers that were picked off by Israels enemies. Don't be a straggler.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Here I will post John 6 for you:

26 Jesus answered them and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. 27 Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”

LABOR FOR THE FOOD WHICH ENDURES TO EVERLASTING LIFE. - It is continual. Give us THIS DAY our DAILY BREAD. Its not a once off eat a morsel at conversion and sit back OSAS style.

labor for food which you can eat, which will,endure forever, not like the food your fathers ate, which you at and still die, this food is himself

enduring means it never loses life

28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”


29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

To believe is also to obey. Its a lifestyle of obedience. Proof given in Hebrews 3. Also, why do you call me Lord Lord and not DO the things which I say.

nothing there about obeying, the disciples asked what work they should do. jesus said it is the work of god,

why can’t you just take it at face value?


30 Therefore they said to Him, “What sign will You perform then, that we may see it and believe You? What work will You do? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’ ”


32 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”


34 Then they said to Him, “Lord, give us this bread always.”


35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me (and remains) shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me (and continues to believe) shall never thirst.

Continued to believe is not there. Your adding to the word. if continues to believe is required. Then we will continue to thirst.



36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me (and remains with me) I will [f]by no means cast out.
again, you added to,the word, shame on you!

38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day (make sure your will and the Fathers will are aligned. God doesnt want to lose any. Thats His will. He will not drag you into heaven kicking and screaming against His Will. If you LOVE ME you will OBEY ME). 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
again you added to the word

this is useless, you are unable to,correctly take the word in context, you just made jesus contradict himself

i am going to a family dinner I will show you what joy 6 says when I return

 

[TooFastTurtle]

Continued to believe is not there. Your adding to the word. if continues to believe is required. Then we will continue to thirst.

Now even continuing in belief is not required? The continuing part is in John 15, where one must abide in Christ or be cut off by the Father.

The same John who wrote they went out from us also wrote about abiding. Yes there are some who depart from the true believers that were never saved as John states, these were the gnostics who denied Jesus had come in the flesh. There are also many who were in the faith, and then departed from the living God, which is completely biblical, not only is the phrase departed from the living God biblical, so is the parable of the sower where some believe for a _while_ but then fall away due to circumstances. So they did indeed believe for a while, so this idea that they never had faith to begin with is just not biblically false, its also demonstrably false and we see people lose faith in many things daily.

You need to explain how some people could have received the Spirit, begun in the Spirit and ended up in the flesh, were severed from Christ and yet this means they are still saved but are just not enjoying the fuzzy feelings of grace. There are so many verses of people departing from the faith and I do not buy into the explanations I have heard so far, they are just too weak and effectively nullify the whole meaning of the passages. Which is exactly my biggest concern with this doctrine, you cannot go to someone and rebuke them, because what is going to happen if they do not repent? Nothing, God will "punish" (reward more like) them by taking them home early if it gets too far. There it is, absolutely nothing will happen. Only thing you can say is you are not sure if that person is even saved, and at which point its back to Calvinism of guessing which one is truly saved and which is not. Where is waldo? theology.


A brother in the Rapture thread pointed out in the beginning of it that he feels internet debates are pointless because people rarely if ever change their view.
I looked back on it and it has been 42 pages and not a single person has conceded on a single point they had. This has caused me to think perhaps the man is right, this is largely meaningless, as we have probably all heard the same arguments a thousand times. I will reply back if some new valid explanation is provided to how some people could have received the Spirit, begun in the Spirit and ended up in the flesh, were severed from Christ and yet this means they are still saved but are just not enjoying the fuzzy feelings of grace or are out of position with grace or whichever argument people have used here. If not I will just let it be, I said what I had to say and I got my mocking blocker on. What joke will stand up comedian mr.military come up with? Something clever and snappy, if only that would answer any of our questions.

EDIT 1: I also would like to say I do not believe there is anyone here who is against OSAS because they don't want it to be true. I am sure me you and everyone would love for OSAS to be true. Smooth sailing, that is what people like, including me.

 

[Judges1318]

a. The protasis is "if we hold fast"

b. The apodosis is "we have been made partakers with Christ."

c. The conditional statement is saying that the apodosis is true if the protasis is true. But the apodosis is in the perfect tense.

You changed the mood of the verb 'hold' from 'may happen/ may not happen' to 'definitely happened' so that the condition for the present result of partaking in Christ spoken of is always satisfied. You can't just decide the mood of the verb 'hold' is different from what it actually is to keep the presupposition of your doctrinal beliefs preserved.

All you have to do is see what the 'For' is there for in the verse to see why the writer used the 'may happen/ may not happen' mood of the verb 'hold'. He's saying you can't have the ongoing result of the completed action of partaking in Christ if you get hardened through the deceitfulness of sin and do not hold fast the confidence that secured it in the first place.

13But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; - Hebrews 3:13-14

 

[Judges1318]

The verse is saying that the apodosis (we have been made partakers) is true if the protasis is true (if we hold fast.)

So the verse is saying that "we have been (past tense) made partakers, if we hold fast. (subjunctive)

The past tense used for the verb 'made' does not mean it can't end. It means the results of that completed action continue to the present. And the passage says they will continue to the present IF you still have the completed action of 'holding' (that may or may not continue) that set the action of partaking with results continuing into motion.

The completed action of partaking, with results continuing, comes to an end IF the completed action of holding fast ends.

 

[Lightskin]

And, we agree that only priests "understand" the "fullness" of God's grace.

😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆

 

[RebuildJesussChurch]

It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

He saved us not on the basis of things we had done. Amen! But thank God we got saved and what He does in our lives - how He transforms us! He regenerates us, writes His Word on our hearts and makes us righteous with His righteousness. We are new and walk in a new way of life. Praise the Lord Jesus Christ!

We desire life and desire many days to see good, so we keep our tongues from evil and our lips from speaking deceit; we turn away from evil and do good; we seek peace and pursue it. For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous and His ears open to their prayer. But the face of the Lord is against those who do evil (to cut off the memory of them from the Earth, the psalmist adds,) 1 Peter 3:10-12.

Thank God for His grace and power that we should be made new creations! For "the righteous man leads a blameless life; blessed are his children after him." Proverbs 20:7 A blameless life. That is awesome.

For we were dead in our transgressions and sins in which we used to live when we followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. Eph.2:1 Jesus certainly is the only Way. We weren't ever going to free ourselves, were we?

Praise the Lord for what faith in the Truth does. Our boast is in Him! He has freed us from our chains.

 

[EleventhHour]

Which is exactly my biggest concern with this doctrine, you cannot go to someone and rebuke them, because what is going to happen if they do not repent? Nothing, God will "punish" (reward more like) them by taking them home early if it gets too far. There it is, absolutely nothing will happen.

Thankfully, God has decided that it is free gift.... and I am joyous for all who receive it and not sure why people who follow NOSAS have to draw comfort from a God who send His children to Hell.

That to me is the pinnacle of pride for anyone to think this way... "look at me how I work to maintain from salvation... and thank goodness God does not allow those other sinners who have lost their way into heaven especially after all I have done to keep my salvation.... that just wouldn't be fair Lord."

Maybe that is another reason none of can boast???

 

[Judges1318]

Now even continuing in belief is not required? The continuing part is in John 15, where one must abide in Christ or be cut off by the Father.

The same John who wrote they went out from us also wrote about abiding. Yes there are some who depart from the true believers that were never saved as John states, these were the gnostics who denied Jesus had come in the flesh. There are also many who were in the faith, and then departed from the living God, which is completely biblical, not only is the phrase departed from the living God biblical, so is the parable of the sower where some believe for a _while_ but then fall away due to circumstances. So they did indeed believe for a while, so this idea that they never had faith to begin with is just not biblically false, its also demonstrably false and we see people lose faith in many things daily.

You need to explain how some people could have received the Spirit, begun in the Spirit and ended up in the flesh, were severed from Christ and yet this means they are still saved but are just not enjoying the fuzzy feelings of grace. There are so many verses of people departing from the faith and I do not buy into the explanations I have heard so far, they are just too weak and effectively nullify the whole meaning of the passages. Which is exactly my biggest concern with this doctrine, you cannot go to someone and rebuke them, because what is going to happen if they do not repent? Nothing, God will "punish" (reward more like) them by taking them home early if it gets too far. There it is, absolutely nothing will happen. Only thing you can say is you are not sure if that person is even saved, and at which point its back to Calvinism of guessing which one is truly saved and which is not. Where is waldo? theology.


A brother in the Rapture thread pointed out in the beginning of it that he feels internet debates are pointless because people rarely if ever change their view.
I looked back on it and it has been 42 pages and not a single person has conceded on a single point they had. This has caused me to think perhaps the man is right, this is largely meaningless, as we have probably all heard the same arguments a thousand times. I will reply back if some new valid explanation is provided to how some people could have received the Spirit, begun in the Spirit and ended up in the flesh, were severed from Christ and yet this means they are still saved but are just not enjoying the fuzzy feelings of grace or are out of position with grace or whichever argument people have used here. If not I will just let it be, I said what I had to say and I got my mocking blocker on. What joke will stand up comedian mr.military come up with? Something clever and snappy, if only that would answer any of our questions.

EDIT 1: I also would like to say I do not believe there is anyone here who is against OSAS because they don't want it to be true. I am sure me you and everyone would love for OSAS to be true. Smooth sailing, that is what people like, including me.

I could save myself a lot of time and just re-post this every time someone tries to defend once saved always saved.

A brother in the Rapture thread pointed out in the beginning of it that he feels internet debates are pointless because people rarely if ever change their view.
I looked back on it and it has been 42 pages and not a single person has conceded on a single point they had. This has caused me to think perhaps the man is right, this is largely meaningless, as we have probably all heard the same arguments a thousand times.

I have eventually changed my mind about things that I've debated on forums over the years. And how it happened was someone said something that got into me in the form of a seed. Over time it grew and I adapted my doctrine accordingly. And I figure that's how it's going to happen in this thread too. There are people here in which the seed is falling who may not be actively participating, and a very few who are participating, who have honest and humble hearts in which the seed will be retained and grow and we know nothing about that happening.

You probably won't see the results yourself in this life, but one day you will see where the seeds you spread found good soil and sprouted and produced fruit and persevered in that soil, and you will receive your reward. I'll tell you one thing I'd rather be found guilty of leading people toward faith and perseverance per Hebrews 6:10-12 than found guilty of leading them away from that through an ear tickling once saved always saved message.

I will just let it be, I said what I had to say and I got my mocking blocker on.

Yep.
As soon as someone starts mocking me and/or tearing me apart I know from Jesus' words that I'm dealing with a dog or pig to whom I am told not to cast my pearls. I don't think it right that people are being robbed of their right and privilege to post in this forum by people who tear them up just because that person's doctrine doesn't align with theirs.

Maybe management is content with them running people off, or provoking them to do things that get them banned, maybe they aren't okay with that. I don't know. I just know they're not going to run me off. I remain in the peace of the Holy Spirit via the ignore button (seriously, it works). I don't let satan ruin, through them, my privilege to discuss the word of God. That's on them for being a tool of the enemy to discourage believers from honest fellowship and learning through discussion. Don't want to be them on the Day Christ comes back to settle accounts.