Not By Works

Chris1975 · Dec 20, 2019

The Dead Church
3 “And to the [a]angel of the church in Sardis write,

‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before [b]God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. 4 [c]You have a few names [d]even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

Entire sermons can be written just from this one passage.

Chris1975 · Dec 20, 2019

Chris1975 said:

How many doctrines being promoted here would be found wanting in light of the above scriptures:
> Jesus addressing His Church (not unbelievers)
>assessing their WORKS
>they think they are alive and have liberty, but they are in fact dead
>repentance is required
>Jesus coming as a thief in the night ----- to His CHURCH!!
>He seperates the wheat from the chaff within the church.
>Only those who have not defiled their garments will be saved.
>Only those who overcome will be saved. By inference there are those who don't overcome.
>Those who overcome will not be blotted out of the Book of Life. By inference, those who don't overcome will be blotted out.

RebuildJesussChurch · Dec 20, 2019

Chris1975 said:

So lets look at this again.

14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: 15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled;

And by this many become defiled - Who are these many? Are they unbelievers? NO. Because unbelievers are ALREADY defiled. Paul is writing to the church. He is saying "CHURCH, don't let a root of bitterness spring up, which will cause you to become defiled" He is also writing to the CHURCH when he says be careful not to fall short of the grace of God. He is writing to the CHURCH to PURSUE (action) Holiness. Its the part WE PLAY in the sanctification process. Granted its a part we cannot achieve without God's power working in us. But it requires your consent and willingness.

Have you ever been offered a FREE GIFT but turned it down? Say you are visiting a friends house and they offer you a free gift, and you turn it down. This does not change the fact that it is FREE, it is a GIFT. You still have the choice to accept it, or turn it down.

That is what Grace is. It is a free gift. But you, through not wanting any part of the sanctification process (because you consider it works), that you turn it down. Yet it is only this Grace that can save you.

By narrowly defining Grace as Justification (which is what you are effectively doing), you are refusing any further work of Grace in your life towards holiness. Grace encompassed not only Justification, but also sanctification as well.

Excellent. On the justification, thouhg

dcontroversal said:

When you come to know Jesus, your days of insulting will be over.

RebuildJesussChurch · Dec 20, 2019

dcontroversal said:

When you come to know Jesus your days of insulting people will be over. You’ll be a new creation. Jesus doesn’t talk like that.

Discern · Dec 20, 2019

Lightskin said:

Amen. It is easier to obey God's Word because of love then any other reason.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Question for Dcontroversal or Mailmandan...how do you understand the preposition "of" in this verse. Honest question, not a challenge.

dcontroversal · Dec 20, 2019

RebuildJesussChurch said:

I know JESUS and HE knows me.....try again GENIUS......maybe read the bible and then make the same mouthy comment to Paul, John, Elijah, JESUS and other men of GOD that regularly used sarcasm and pointed names like...

White washed coffins filled with the bones of dead men
Vipers
Generation of snakes
Blind leaders of the blind
Hypocrites

And make no mistake, by doctrine the only one between us that does not know God is yourself!

RebuildJesussChurch · Dec 20, 2019

dcontroversal said:

Their being a church of Jesus Christ was on the line. Could be true of a church you’re a part of. And the rest of it? How does it apply to you?

dcontroversal · Dec 20, 2019

RebuildJesussChurch said:

More proof that you do not read the bible and or understand it genius

dcontroversal · Dec 20, 2019

RebuildJesussChurch said:

Their??? Hilarious!

RebuildJesussChurch · Dec 20, 2019

dcontroversal said:

I love listening to the Bible all day. Just had a powerful time of family devotions. The presence of Jesus Christ was beautiful!

Discern · Dec 20, 2019

Chris1975 said:

The Dead Church
3 “And to the [a]angel of the church in Sardis write,

‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before [b]God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. 4 [c]You have a few names [d]even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

Entire sermons can be written just from this one passage.

Who is the one who overcomes, and with what victory do we overcome? 1 John 5:1-5; Romans 12:11

Melach · Dec 20, 2019

dcontroversal said:

they dont read elijah mock false prophets of baal. they dont read Jesus call people brood of vipers and st.paul saying to castrate themselves

i dont know what movement brought to christianity this idea you cant say anything you got to be a sissy and just say God bless you. like being a man is wrong

dcontroversal · Dec 20, 2019

Melach said:

Amen.....what they peddle is the watered down faux Christianity that denies the truth and then embellishes it to fit their inept religion

Discern · Dec 20, 2019

dcontroversal said:

There should be no controversy on this. The NOSAS might be surprised who wrote the quote below. Can anyone guess who wrote it

A Third inference which we may draw from what has been observed, is, that the new birth is not the same with sanctification. This is indeed taken for granted by many; particularly by an eminent writer, in his late treatise on “The Nature and Grounds of Christian Regeneration.” To wave several other weighty objections which might be made to that tract, this is a palpable one: It all along speaks of regeneration as a progressive work, carried on in the soul by slow degrees, from the time of our first turning to God. This is undeniably true of sanctification; but of regeneration, the new birth, it is not true. This is a part of sanctification, not the whole; it is the gate to it, the entrance into it. When we are born again, then our sanctification, our inward and outward holiness, begins; and thenceforward we are gradually to “grow up in Him who is our Head.” This expression of the Apostle admirably illustrates the difference between one and the other, and farther points out the exact analogy there is between natural and spiritual things. A child is born of a woman in a moment, or at least in a very short time: Afterward he gradually and slowly grows, till he attains to the stature of a man. In like manner, a child is born of God in a short time, if not in a moment. But it is by slow degrees that he afterward grows up to the measure of the full stature of Christ. The same relation, therefore, which there is between our natural birth and our growth, there is also between our new birth and our sanctification.[/QUOTE]

EleventhHour · Dec 20, 2019

Judges1318 said:

One cannot depart from salvation... do you not understand that you cannot be found guilty again once you have been declared/deemed innocent?

Which means that your argument is an irrational position.

It really is a very simple concept.

VCO · Dec 20, 2019

Chris1975 said:

DEEDS done for Christ for any MOTIVE EXCEPT Agape LOVE for HIM and the Brethren, are nothing but Filthy Rags, that are Totally worthless. That include deeds to THINK YOU CAN earn part of your Salvation, or as an obligation OR duty. Obedience is PART OF AGAPE LOVE He put in you.

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s AGAPE love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

eternally-gratefull · Dec 20, 2019

Chris1975 said:

my response in blue

Hebrews 12v14-15

14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: 15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled;

What is Grace?

Titus 2

11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

grace is unmerited favor, it brings salvation, and as a result, leads to sanctification teaching us to live like Christ.

apart from grace we have no motivation to be obedient, grace does not lead to more sin, it leads to righteous living.

How do you fall short of Gods grace? Look back at Hebrews 12v14-15. Justification (belief in Christ) without the pursuit of holiness/sanctification (Hebrews 12v14) cannot result in seeing the Lord. It’s plain what the word of God says. In black and white. And Grace will not disappoint, to those who pursue holiness, because Grace empowers (Titus 2v11-14), it teaches us to live a sanctified and holy life.

If you pursue holiness, you will have Grace. If you have Grace, and you choose to continue pursuing holiness, you have no trouble.

so grace is earned? We have to work to earn grace,

grace and works do not mix, it is one or the other. You are taking Heb 12 out of context t plain and simple

as paul said.

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

and he is adamant that salvation is not by our works, but by grace

2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

and one of the verses I gave you, titus 3: 5 says we are not saved by rightiousness deeds

Titus 3:5
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit

have to do this in 2 posts

eternally-gratefull · Dec 20, 2019

Continued

2 Peter 2
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

1. It says they knew the way, not that they accepted the way and were saved.
2. it states they were dogs, and they returned to what dogs do. Eat their vomit. They were never made new creatures

this passage supports osas, it supports the fact that fake christians will always return to their vomit.

who rejects the work,of sanctification? A believer has free will. They are free to accept sanctification (the pursuit of holiness s – Hebrews 12v14), or reject it (2 Peter 2v21).
yes, but they are still justified, that’s where your problem lies. A believer may remain a babe in Christ, yet they are still in Christ.

Who can overpower God (those who are being sanctified) ? God will not drag you into heaven kicking and screaming against his your will.

he will not drag you to salvation against your will either, he knows your heart and if you have true faith or not

those saved and blessed by him, understand, and do not want to go back. You do not come to Christ because you think you might need him or you think you need saved, you come because you KNOW.

i know this might be hard for you to understand, but it’s true.

Who can break the seal of the spirit (Eph 1) If you want to quote Ephesians 1v13-14 13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who[d] is the [e]guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Then you need to know that believing in Jesus and the Gospel of Salvation includes those included in Ephesians 1v4 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,

Yep

1. he chose us that we will be holy and without blame
2. he saved us and gave us the seal when we had faith
3. he said this seal will continue until the day of redemption

once again, this proves osas. It does not prove a works based religion
2.

Who can save themselves by works of righteousness which we have done (Titus 3).

Lets put in the whole section: Titus 3v4-7 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

See the sanctification there in v5? Just after your quoted section in v4.

you got that wrong,

it’s justification,

your icing justification (declared innocent or righteous, free of guilt) with sanctification (ongoing Christian growth) and that is where you are mistaken

it says he saved us not by our good deeds but by his mercy,

this proves osas 100 percent, because it is not earned, it is given by mercy to:those who can never earn it,

your trying to earn it, this should give you pause.

Who can overcome Gods promise to all who have taken the bread from heaven promises that they will never hunger or thirst, live forever, never die, be raised on the last day, and has eternal life) what hope do they have to continue to believe if they do not have eternal life (1 John) I can go on and on about eternal security passages.

why would you want to try to save yourself by your work, and reject gods promises? Just asking.

You cannot save yourself by Works. I never stated this. You are saved by Faith. However faith includes obedience and holiness otherwise its not true faith.

ie, faith plus works, you just admitted it, yet refuse to see it, this again should be a warning to you

its not faith plus works, it is true faith, which leads to salvation and works. Works are a byproduct of faith, not an addition to faith,

All of the rest necessarily includes the process of sanctification above. If you don’t partake in holiness, obedience to the will of the Lord, you will fall short. Hebrews 12v14.

we are not saved by sanctification, we are saved by justification

you do not maintain salvation by being sanctified, it is part of your christian growth, and not everyone will become
super sanctified ,we are saved, declared righteous, by faith apart from works.
those who are saved will never die. Funny how you skipped John 6

eternally-gratefull · Dec 20, 2019

dcontroversal said:

I had to look to see who this was for.i should have known better

RebuildJesussChurch · Dec 20, 2019

dcontroversal said:

You cannot answer.

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