Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

The part about the Lord's discipline and correction and possibly even the giving over of the flesh to Satan. I don't understand that giving over the flesh to Satan part and how that could be helpful.

So his soul can be saved

do you understand what happens to a soul turned to satan. Their life goes to hell, stuff you probably can OT even imagine this causes them to seek for help, and where are they going to find it? Their first love, they will be reminded what god did, reminded what happened to them, and like the prodigal son they will return.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Heb 6:4-6 KJV Lost salvation
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, (5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, (6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Wrong..

been there done that

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Looks like eternal life in Hell for those who disregard scriptures like the one above.

You disregard more than enough scripture, you need to worry about yourself my friend.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Once Saved Always Saved to Hell.

The Good Shepherd only seeks after his own sheep.

And his sheep follow him.

if his sheep follow him, and he leaves the flock to find it if it strays, and always come back

it will never be lost

your own example goes against your works based save yourself theology

 

[Hevosmies]

.

It's not even an issue with the verb so much as it is the mood of the verb.

It's easy to confirm for even us non-Greek speaking people that the verb 'hold' in hold fast is in the subjunctive mood. In simple terms that means the holding fast being spoken about may or may not continue. And yet it is this holding fast, that may or may not continue, upon which being made a partaker of Christ is based. < what the.... >

That completely destroys the argument from Hebrews 3:14 that once saved always saved says is there. It interprets it to mean your never ending holding fast is the result and proof of having partook of Christ. Problem: The believing being spoken about there is not the holding fast that doesn't end!

Check it out for yourself. You don't need a Greek geek to help you see what I'm saying.

Tell me WHERE do you get the idea that it says "may or may not continue"? WHERE does it say that in biblehub I checked out the word in "the greek"?

Aint it amazing how in "the greek" we got all these added meanings that are like whole sentences, that we never get in ANY OTHER LANGUAGE, I can speak two languages fluently and 2 others in a garbage way but can still understand them and watch the news on em, and in NO LANGUAGE that I know of, does this occur except "the greek"

If i say: Everyone who owns a bulldog is a home owner if they eat chicken.

That just says what it says everyone who owns a bulldog and eats chicken is a home owner, no subjunctives of ooh yeah it may continue or it may not or any of this. AND IMA BE HONEST WITH YOU, I dont even know what subjunctive means, how about that?

 

[VCO]

Tell me WHERE do you get the idea that it says "may or may not continue"? WHERE does it say that in biblehub I checked out the word in "the greek"?

Aint it amazing how in "the greek" we got all these added meanings that are like whole sentences, that we never get in ANY OTHER LANGUAGE, I can speak two languages fluently and 2 others in a garbage way but can still understand them and watch the news on em, and in NO LANGUAGE that I know of, does this occur except "the greek"

If i say: Everyone who owns a bulldog is a home owner if they eat chicken.

That just says what it says everyone who owns a bulldog and eats chicken is a home owner, no subjunctives of ooh yeah it may continue or it may not or any of this. AND IMA BE HONEST WITH YOU, I dont even know what subjunctive means, how about that?

Could be that the Bulldog, loves to kill chickens. LOL

 

[Lightskin]

I suspect if the apostles Peter and James were commenting on this forum, you would accuse them of being works salvationists. For it is their scriptures you kick against.

I suspect you would do the same to Jesus regarding His proclamation that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Tell me WHERE do you get the idea that it says "may or may not continue"? WHERE does it say that in biblehub I checked out the word in "the greek"?

Aint it amazing how in "the greek" we got all these added meanings that are like whole sentences, that we never get in ANY OTHER LANGUAGE, I can speak two languages fluently and 2 others in a garbage way but can still understand them and watch the news on em, and in NO LANGUAGE that I know of, does this occur except "the greek"

If i say: Everyone who owns a bulldog is a home owner if they eat chicken.

That just says what it says everyone who owns a bulldog and eats chicken is a home owner, no subjunctives of ooh yeah it may continue or it may not or any of this. AND IMA BE HONEST WITH YOU, I dont even know what subjunctive means, how about that?

You see them in the english, the difference is inhe greek, it is one word spelled differently that determines how it is used.

examples

Indicative - I am eating, something is actually happening
subjunctive - I might eat. Probable That it may happen
optative - I could eat. Possible that it may happen
imperative - eat commanded

 

[RebuildJesussChurch]

I suspect you would do the same to Jesus regarding His proclamation that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

It is written, “Whoever believes in Him is born of God.” “No one who is born of God sins.” So who is really believing in Him? He also said anyone who believed in Him would do what He was doing, referring to His miracles.

Very little of what is called faith and believing really is what the label says. There’s a lot of mental ascent and wishful thinking but not as many lives radically changed. Lots of “church” members but few disciples.

These signs will follow them who believe. The world needs to see some blind eyes opened. He confirms His Word by the signs that accompany it. Let us return to the Lord.

 

[Lightskin]

It is written, “Whoever believes in Him is born of God.” “No one who is born of God sins.” So who is really believing in Him? He also said anyone who believed in Him would do what He was doing, referring to His miracles.

Very little of what is called faith and believing really is what the label says. There’s a lot of mental ascent and wishful thinking but not as many lives radically changed. Lots of “church” members but few disciples.

These signs will follow them who believe. The world needs to see some blind eyes opened. He confirms His Word by the signs that accompany it. Let us return to the Lord.

A sinless wonder ^^^^^
Here’s a reality check: you are a sinner. It doesn’t mean you’re evil or bad, but rather it means that you are not perfect and you will never be perfect on this side of heaven.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A sinless wonder ^^^^^
Here’s a reality check: you are a sinner. It doesn’t mean you’re evil or bad, but rather it means that you are not perfect and you will never be perfect on this side of heaven.

If only they could see this

 

[Discern]

Tell me WHERE do you get the idea that it says "may or may not continue"? WHERE does it say that in biblehub I checked out the word in "the greek"?

Aint it amazing how in "the greek" we got all these added meanings that are like whole sentences, that we never get in ANY OTHER LANGUAGE, I can speak two languages fluently and 2 others in a garbage way but can still understand them and watch the news on em, and in NO LANGUAGE that I know of, does this occur except "the greek"

If i say: Everyone who owns a bulldog is a home owner if they eat chicken.

That just says what it says everyone who owns a bulldog and eats chicken is a home owner, no subjunctives of ooh yeah it may continue or it may not or any of this. AND IMA BE HONEST WITH YOU, I dont even know what subjunctive means, how about that?

I believe the verb “hold fast” is subjunctive (verb of possibility) The verb made partakers is indicative ( statement of fact). Therefore if believers hold fast to the end, it is indicative that they were made partakers in the past. (Perfect tense ,,we have been made partakers)

It looks like a conditional statement. there are four classes of Greek conditions. I would have to check to see which class it is

 

[Lightskin]

If only they could see this

Jesus talks about blind guides. Here we are 2000 years later and they are present among us.

 

[Discern]

I believe the verb “hold fast” is subjunctive (verb of possibility) The verb made partakers is indicative ( statement of fact). Therefore if believers hold fast to the end, it is indicative that they were made partakers in the past. (Perfect tense ,,we have been made partakers)

It looks like a conditional statement. there are four classes of Greek conditions. I would have to check to see which class it is

Third class condition. Meaning that the future condition of holding fast is “more probable”, but contingent. I would say contingent on whether a person has been made a partaker, as the word “if” seems to indicate

 

[VCO]

It is written, “Whoever believes in Him is born of God.” “No one who is born of God sins.” So who is really believing in Him? He also said anyone who believed in Him would do what He was doing, referring to His miracles.

Very little of what is called faith and believing really is what the label says. There’s a lot of mental ascent and wishful thinking but not as many lives radically changed. Lots of “church” members but few disciples.

These signs will follow them who believe. The world needs to see some blind eyes opened. He confirms His Word by the signs that accompany it. Let us return to the Lord.

The word SIN is in the One of the GREEK TENSE that we do not have in ENGLISH. It means not PERFECT, but a Continuous Action a LIFESTYLE of avoiding sin.

 

[Hevosmies]

You see them in the english, the difference is inhe greek, it is one word spelled differently that determines how it is used.

examples

Indicative - I am eating, something is actually happening
subjunctive - I might eat. Probable That it may happen
optative - I could eat. Possible that it may happen
imperative - eat commanded

If thats the case why dont translators put that in the text to convey the idea and meaning behind it?

If what you're saying is true here it REALLY does some damage to the so called "word for word" translation idea and I will start preferring the other translations, IF ONLY I knew to check this from somewhere. You got any place where I could check this in " the greek "?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If thats the case why dont translators put that in the text to convey the idea and meaning behind it?

If what you're saying is true here it REALLY does some damage to the so called "word for word" translation idea and I will start preferring the other translations, IF ONLY I knew to check this from somewhere. You got any place where I could check this in " the greek "?

Word for word simply means they translated the word as a word, and then you have the interpretors attempting to put the way the word is used in word in text.

if the NT was literally translated it would be quite large, much larger than it is now

also, the problem is in the English language, as some greek words does not have a real English equivalent, thus the interpretor shad To chose a word which closely resembles it as best as it can, example the word love, a general English word used to translate 4 distingk greek words, all with different meanings

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The word SIN is in the One of the GREEK TENSE that we do not have in ENGLISH. It means not PERFECT, but a Continuous Action a LIFESTYLE of avoiding sin.

The greek word is haparte, literally it means to “miss the mark”

the way it is written in Greek is that it is an ongoing continuous event, ie, habitual or a lifestyle of missing the mark.

 

[RebuildJesussChurch]

A sinless wonder ^^^^^
Here’s a reality check: you are a sinner. It doesn’t mean you’re evil or bad, but rather it means that you are not perfect and you will never be perfect on this side of heaven.

Here's a reality check: the Word of God. How did the Lord respond to Satan? It is written, it is written, it is written. Let it be your reality. It will then be your reality. He called them gods to whom the Word of God came and the Scripture cannot be broken. <gasp>

 

[PS]

The Good Shepherd only seeks after his own sheep given him by the Father.

Believers warned : -
Heb 10:23-27 KJV Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised (24) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: (25) Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

(26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

The same Good Shepherd will wreak judgment.