'Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee!'
Look out people when the Holy Spirit starts bobbing and jabbing!
@Chris1975 is smokin'!
Look out people when the Holy Spirit starts bobbing and jabbing!
@Chris1975 is smokin'!
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
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EleventhHour
Guest
I don't know, but I am worried about the salvation of these people mentioned below. I think that they are works salvationists.....all I see is Works, works, works,,,,,
4 By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks.
5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
7 By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; 10 for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
11 By faith Sarah herself also received strength to conceive seed, and she[d] bore a child when she was past the age, because she judged Him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born as many as the stars of the sky in multitude—innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore.
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off [e]were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. 15 And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18 [f]of whom it was said, “In Isaac your seed shall be called,” 19 concluding that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead, from which he also received him in a figurative sense.
20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
21 By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, and worshiped, leaning on the top of his staff.
22 By faith Joseph, when he was dying, made mention of the departure of the children of Israel, and gave instructions concerning his bones
23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden three months by his parents, because they saw he was a beautiful child; and they were not afraid of the king’s command.
24 By faith Moses, when he became of age, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter, 25 choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God than to enjoy the [g]passing pleasures of sin, 26 esteeming the [h]reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures [i]in Egypt; for he looked to the reward.
27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king; for he endured as seeing Him who is invisible. 28 By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of blood, lest he who destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
29 By faith they passed through the Red Sea as by dry land, whereas the Egyptians, attempting to do so, were drowned.
30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they were encircled for seven days. 31 By faith the harlot Rahab did not perish with those who [j]did not believe, when she had received the spies with peace.
32 And what more shall I say? For the time would fail me to tell of Gideon and Barak and Samson and Jephthah, also of David and Samuel and the prophets: 33 who through faith subdued kingdoms, worked righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, became valiant in battle, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. 35 Women received their dead raised to life again.
Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. 36 Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, [k]were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented— 38 of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth.
39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, 40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.
4 By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks.
5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
7 By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; 10 for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
11 By faith Sarah herself also received strength to conceive seed, and she[d] bore a child when she was past the age, because she judged Him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born as many as the stars of the sky in multitude—innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore.
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off [e]were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. 15 And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18 [f]of whom it was said, “In Isaac your seed shall be called,” 19 concluding that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead, from which he also received him in a figurative sense.
20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
21 By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, and worshiped, leaning on the top of his staff.
22 By faith Joseph, when he was dying, made mention of the departure of the children of Israel, and gave instructions concerning his bones
23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden three months by his parents, because they saw he was a beautiful child; and they were not afraid of the king’s command.
24 By faith Moses, when he became of age, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter, 25 choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God than to enjoy the [g]passing pleasures of sin, 26 esteeming the [h]reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures [i]in Egypt; for he looked to the reward.
27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king; for he endured as seeing Him who is invisible. 28 By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of blood, lest he who destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
29 By faith they passed through the Red Sea as by dry land, whereas the Egyptians, attempting to do so, were drowned.
30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they were encircled for seven days. 31 By faith the harlot Rahab did not perish with those who [j]did not believe, when she had received the spies with peace.
32 And what more shall I say? For the time would fail me to tell of Gideon and Barak and Samson and Jephthah, also of David and Samuel and the prophets: 33 who through faith subdued kingdoms, worked righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, became valiant in battle, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. 35 Women received their dead raised to life again.
Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. 36 Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, [k]were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented— 38 of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth.
39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, 40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.
See my point? Thats what your doctrine amounts to, when you lop off an entire part of the bible, it no longer makes sense.
Hebrews 11...
When faith moves from being a noun and becomes a verb.
Dude...you the cake for ignorance and again ignoring context will take you straight to the pit....YOUR gospel does not save a man....
I think that's called 'not rightly dividing the word of God'.
This is as idiotic as it comes...neither he or you have proven anything except that neither one of you know what you are talking about Ralph!
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EleventhHour
Guest
You have shown yourself to not be willing to engage in honest, fruitful discussion so why would you expect more.
Siners, not by works; Saints are labourers together with God, called to disappear from themselves and apear appear before God, "They go from strength to strength and appear before God." They overcome the world by Grace to have part in the first Resurrection.
On the contrary. I believe the discussions have been very fruitful. We have had opposing viewpoints. I have also changed mid tack (using Tongue in Cheek examples) to show you your own doctrine so that you could learn fallacies with this worldview when exposed from a different angle.
But let there be no doubt on one thing - overlooking Hebrews 29v10 like you do, making it seem like something else when it is not is not doing yourself any favours. Pride vs Truth. That's what all this arguing boils down to. Paradigms and Strongholds need to be broken. Better to take a humble approach and receive truth, than win the argument because you have taken a strong position in the past and now you doggedly stick to your guns.
Let the Word (Truth) set you free.
For now, based on this timezone, its off to zzzzzzz.
It is foolish to engage those that reject and deny context....He is one of the top cake takers on this site and as dishonest as they come...Ralph is another one.
This is a good, and appropriate question. I believe this is where all those warnings in the NT you and others refer to come into play.
We ARE to examine ourselves, and our conduct. If we are engaged in obvious, knowing, sinful behavior, and we feel NO conviction over it, we need to truly ask the question you have asked. Am I a born again child of God?
For instance. A homosexual that calls himself a brother in Christ, yet feels no conviction for ongoing sexual relations with a member, or members of the same sex, and maybe even tells others that what he or she is doing is fine in God's Eyes, I would question, and they absolutely should question, whether they have indeed been born again.
I picked homosexuality because it's an obvious, easy to understand example. But you can fill the sin blank in with any of the laundry list of warning sin examples given in several places.
God's children CANNOT continue in sin without their Father disciplining them. Satan doesn't discipline. He encourages his children to sin worse and worse.
Also, adding to, or subtracting from, THE Gospel unto Salvation, is an indicator than one may not be born again.
In BOTH these instances though, we have to be careful. MANY born again children struggle to walk in the Spirit, and consequently walk in the flesh and struggle with sin. The key is CONVICTION.
Some baby born again children may be confused, or even led astray for a time about the one true Gospel.
We absolutely shouldn't omit the positive lists that we should see if we are born again. Like the fruit of the Spirit, and whether or not we have love for others.
Thanks Cherie. Can you narrow down even further what part? There is really too much to post about the whole thing.
The part about the Lord's discipline and correction and possibly even the giving over of the flesh to Satan. I don't understand that giving over the flesh to Satan part and how that could be helpful.
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EleventhHour
Guest
Yes ... I own it, I was foolish... boy I need to be less naive!
sure.
1 Corinthians 5 New King James Version (NKJV)
5 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! 2 And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
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EleventhHour
Guest
This really takes the cake!!
https://christianchat.com/threads/not-by-works.146296/post-4109334
Next time just post a big stop sign like this
and I will remember who they truly are and stop. 