Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

The "perfected forever" more refers to thefact that the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross was once for all time. No longer needs to be offered annually as was the case under the old covenant. The blood of Jesus cleanses the new believer, the repentant sinner who comes back to the Lord, and the mature believer, all believers.

Lets look at the "perfected forever" and the context in which it is found.

Hebrews 10 11 And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being [d]sanctified.

It refers to the fact that Jesus sacrifice is PERFECT, and has no need to be repeated annually as per the old covenant with the high priest. This sacrifice covers the new believer, the old believer, the backslidden but now repentant believer. Jesus no longer needs to go to the cross again and again.

Now lets look a little further in Hebrews 10:

19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness[f] to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and having a High Priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

The Just Live by Faith
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” [g]says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

He has perfected forever those who

sorry but I have to take it as written..

how about let’s look at the other passages I posted. How can you explain them away in not by works?

I am getting ready to go to work, will look at your response later. thank you

 

[Discern]

I see a constant support of Ralph......very disturbing indeed.

No you don't.

 

[Discern]

I see a constant support of Ralph......very disturbing indeed.

It's funny that ONLY you and Eleventh see that. No one else does that I can see. Everyone else seems to recognize my posts as OSAS in perspective. (Mailmandan, Eternally Grateful, One of His, Bill G) etc.

I wonder why you think the post that Eleventh Hour replied to supports whoever Ralph is, (I know from your past posts, he apparently believes in NOSAS. ) SO where did I agree with that?

 

[Discern]

That person would become what John calls an antichrist.

he answered your question also. They were never of us, if they were of us, they never would have departed. But they departed to reveal they were never of us

I agree with you entirely on this.

 

[Discern]

No problem.... .... we can attribute it to the "bad news bears" that keep coming to this thread promoting their false gospel of works... there are so many, hard to keep track of them all.

I quoted Jacob Prasch as saying that "continuance in the faith is not trusting in our ability to hold on, but it is trusting in Christ's ability to hold on to us". And then she asked "for salvation or sanctification?"

The question does not make sense to me. It's similar to saying "do we love Jesus for salvation or sanctification?" which is nonsensical.

 

[Judges1318]

If you were truly honest with yourself, verse 29 should settle the matter once and for all.

A different definition for 'sanctified' gets conveniently used in vs. 29 by once saved always saved so that the verse doesn't conflict with it's doctrine.

 

[Discern]

I quoted Jacob Prasch as saying that "continuance in the faith is not trusting in our ability to hold on, but it is trusting in Christ's ability to hold on to us". And then she asked "for salvation or sanctification?"

The question does not make sense to me. It's similar to saying "do we love Jesus for salvation or sanctification?" which is nonsensical.

IN other words, when a believer trusts Jesus, it is not something we give to God in order to receive salvation, sanctification, or preservation. It is something that springs from our love of God produced by the new nature. That point was completely missed.

 

[Discern]

For salvation or sanctification?

The question is entirely irrelevant to the quote I gave. The quote is about trusting Jesus to hold on to us, which is neither a barter we trade to God in exchange for sanctification, nor is it a work that we need to do to remain saved. It is a response to God's Grace, just as loving God is a response to God's grace.

 

[Judges1318]

IN other words, when a believer trusts Jesus, it is not something we give to God in order to receive salvation, sanctification, or preservation. It is something that springs from our love of God produced by the new nature. That point was completely missed.

What's the 'it'?

 

[Judges1318]

The quote is about trusting Jesus to hold on to us, which is neither a barter we trade to God in exchange for sanctification, nor is it a work that we need to do to remain saved.

But it is something you must do to be saved, nonetheless.
You can't stop doing that and remain saved.

 

[Discern]

What's the 'it'?

The "it" is the believer trusting Jesus. A believer's trust is not a barter we trade with God to obtain sanctification or a price we pay to remain saved. It is a response to God's Grace. Just as loving is

A believer trusting Jesus is no more a trade off with God to receive His blessings than love is. That is the error that some are making. They think that if a person says "continue in the faith", we are talking about some kind of barter that we give to God in exchange for something. That is the wrong way of thinking about it.

 

[Judges1318]

Everyone else seems to recognize my posts as OSAS in perspective. (Mailmandan, Eternally Grateful, One of His, Bill G) etc.

You are thoroughly on board with once saved always saved from my point of view.

 

[Discern]

But it is something you must do to be saved, nonetheless.
You can't stop doing that and remain saved.

I will say again...trusting Jesus is not trusting in your ability to hold on to Him, it is trusting His ability to hold on to you.

...and it is not something we use to barter with God in order to receive sanctification or remain saved. It is a response to His loving Grace.

 

[Discern]

You are thoroughly on board with once saved always saved from my point of view.

Isn't it amazing that two people think I am agreeing with this guy Ralph, whoever that is? What's the deal with that?

 

[Judges1318]

The "it" is the believer trusting Jesus. A believer's trust is not a barter we trade with God to obtain sanctification or a price we pay to remain saved.

It's what a person does to get saved, and they must continue to have that same trusting to remain saved. If they abandon it they will be lost.

They think that if a person says "continue in the faith", we are talking about some kind of barter that we give to God in exchange for something. That is the wrong way of thinking about it.

It doesn't help when you have Calvinist teachers telling them that trusting is works if the trusting didn't just appear in a person according to Calvin's distorted understanding of election.

I'm telling you. Calvin is to blame for the leaven of this ear tickling junk in the church that has almost worked it's way all the way through the dough. The church resisted it for centuries before him.

 

[Judges1318]

it is trusting His ability to hold on to you.

And I will say again, that is what you must do to be saved and to stay saved.
No one who doesn't trust God for the forgiveness of his sin on the day that person dies will enter into the kingdom of God.
Doesn't matter how well they started out.
If they don't finish in faith, they will not be saved when Jesus comes back.

 

[Discern]

I see a constant support of Ralph......very disturbing indeed.

 

[Discern]

And I will say again, that is what you must do to be saved and to stay saved.
No one who doesn't trust God for the forgiveness of his sin on the day that person dies will enter into the kingdom of God.
Doesn't matter how well they started out.
If they don't finish in faith, they will not be saved when Jesus comes back.

We're (you and I) are talking in circles.

 

[Judges1318]

Isn't it amazing that two people think I am agreeing with this guy Ralph, whoever that is? What's the deal with that?

I don't see how they can not see that you thoroughly believe in once saved always saved.

 

[Discern]

I don't see how they can not see that you thoroughly believe in once saved always saved.