Luke 21:32 and the coming of the kingdom

[Chris1975]

I can't even understand what most of the people are saying. If someone could give an answer in simple English without biblical terms or high flying words, that would be great.

Hi Nullpointer, so many varied responses no wonder you feel confused by this. Not meant to be that way. I will try give a plain explanation as to how I understand this. Bear in mind nobody has 100% of eschatology (end times studies) down pat. When the disciples ask Jesus what will happen at the end of the age, Jesus answers what comes at the END. Not what comes 30 - 40 years down the line. So all of these answers that try to apply this to when Rome overthrew Israel in 70 AD are incorrect. Settle that in your heart when reading the above responses.

What Jesus is saying is that there will come in future a GENERATION (see this as a group of people alive at the same point, ranging in age from 0-70 for example) who will see various things come upon the earth. Luke goes on to record all of the various trails and tribulations as decribed by Jesus. It says that when this generation begins to see these things happen, that all of the things described will occur WITHIN the span of that one generation. So basically it will come fairly quickly, and not occur over hundreds of years apart. It will most likely be seen to all happen within a few very short years.

There are prophecies of Jerusalem being surrounded by her enemies. Well this has happened historically, but it is also scheduled in God's timetable to happen at the end of days. Basically Jerusalem will be overrun, people killed, women ravaged and raped etc. When the city is halfway overrun, it is AT THIS POINT that Jesus returns. This is the point where the Antichrist and his armies are judged.

So the generation that sees these things begin to occur is likely to be the generation to witness the end. And I suspect that we are already seeing a lot of this occur at present, leading me to believe we most likely are already a part of this generation.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I'm new to Christianity and am still exploring the gospels. According to the gospel of Luke, verse 21:32, Jesus says that "this generation shall not pass until all these things have taken place." Doesn't that mean that all the things mentioned in the bible including the coming of the kingdom should've already happened by now (in that generation)? What are we waiting for?

The kingdom of heaven is not talking about eternal heaven. The kingdom of heaven is one of the names for the church that Jesus set up, in which he is the king and husband of. Christ is reigning as King in his kingdom, the church, since that time until now and will come back to take it home to eternal heaven at the last day. His church is referenced by several names in the scriptures; The new Jerusalem, the church of the first born, the church in the wilderness, the church of God, the church of Christ, the remnant, the few etc.

 

[garee]

Paul called Jesus the new creation

,... behold heaven and Earth have passed away and all things have become new....

The heaven and Earth being spoke of here is the old way in Adam!

Yes called the evil generation in Adam . Those who walk after what the eyes see the temporal and not the unseen eternal things of faith.

 

[Adstar]

I can't even understand what most of the people are saying. If someone could give an answer in simple English without biblical terms or high flying words, that would be great.

Yes and No.. The Kingdom of heaven comes in two ways..

Spiritual by belief and when the Holy Spirit enters into us.. This happened soon after Jesus assended into heaven. The Apostles where gathered on the day of Pentecost and that is when the Holy Spirit came down from heaven and entered into them.. That is when they became Christians and the first citizens of the Kingdom of God.. So they saw the kingdom of God come in it's spiritual non physical form.. It was a kingdom of belief and it had it's first citizens who then where waiting for the physical kingdom to arrive..

The Physical Kingdom of God has not yet arrived.. This will happen on the second coming of Jesus when the Apostles and all the other Christians who have lived down through the centuries will be raised from the dead..

Now when Jesus was saying when you see these things come to pass.. He was talking to both the Apostles who would see the establishment of the spiritual Kingdom AND he was talking to the future Christians whom the Bible is also written to ( the Bible is Gods message to us also) who will be alive at the times of the physical return of Jesus.. So when we see ( or future Christians) see the signs Jesus was talking about then we can know that the return of Jesus is close..

Many people get focused on the year 70ad and claim that what happened in Jerusalem when the Romans laid siege to it and destroyed it was fulfillment of all the signs given by Jesus to the apostles. But they are wrong all the signs where not fulfilled at that time.. And so we wait for those signs to all be fulfilled.. Not get carried away by seeing a few signs that look like the signs Jesus gave and jump the gun and start preaching that His words have been fulfilled..

Anyway nullpointer i hope i have not used too much Bible jargon and enough plain speech for you to understand the points i am trying to give you.. May God bless you..

 

[garee]

Hi Nullpointer, so many varied responses no wonder you feel confused by this. Not meant to be that way. I will try give a plain explanation as to how I understand this. Bear in mind nobody has 100% of eschatology (end times studies) down pat. When the disciples ask Jesus what will happen at the end of the age, Jesus answers what comes at the END. Not what comes 30 - 40 years down the line. So all of these answers that try to apply this to when Rome overthrew Israel in 70 AD are incorrect. Settle that in your heart when reading the above responses.

What Jesus is saying is that there will come in future a GENERATION (see this as a group of people alive at the same point, ranging in age from 0-70 for example) who will see various things come upon the earth. Luke goes on to record all of the various trails and tribulations as decribed by Jesus. It says that when this generation begins to see these things happen, that all of the things described will occur WITHIN the span of that one generation. So basically it will come fairly quickly, and not occur over hundreds of years apart. It will most likely be seen to all happen within a few very short years.

There are prophecies of Jerusalem being surrounded by her enemies. Well this has happened historically, but it is also scheduled in God's timetable to happen at the end of days. Basically Jerusalem will be overrun, people killed, women ravaged and raped etc. When the city is halfway overrun, it is AT THIS POINT that Jesus returns. This is the point where the Antichrist and his armies are judged.

So the generation that sees these things begin to occur is likely to be the generation to witness the end. And I suspect that we are already seeing a lot of this occur at present, leading me to believe we most likely are already a part of this generation.

Jesus does not give a sign of the last day as the disciples askes . In that way its an evil generation that does seek after one. But rather he gives a general things will continue going on as in the days of Noah. He will come like a thief in the night. He neither numbers exact days or numbers of people. We walk by faith

I would offer salavation has nothing to Jewish with the outward Jewish flesh. A Jew or a Christian is one inwardly of the eternal not of the temporal flesh.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

A post I made the other day in a different thread, may help shed some light on the subject:

https://christianchat.com/threads/describe-osas-in-terms-of-this-passage.189180/post-4107663

 

[Jimbone]

do you believe that Jesus will return again to create new heaven and earth then?

I believe when all is perfected

Hi Nullpointer, so many varied responses no wonder you feel confused by this. Not meant to be that way. I will try give a plain explanation as to how I understand this. Bear in mind nobody has 100% of eschatology (end times studies) down pat. When the disciples ask Jesus what will happen at the end of the age, Jesus answers what comes at the END. Not what comes 30 - 40 years down the line. So all of these answers that try to apply this to when Rome overthrew Israel in 70 AD are incorrect. Settle that in your heart when reading the above responses.

What Jesus is saying is that there will come in future a GENERATION (see this as a group of people alive at the same point, ranging in age from 0-70 for example) who will see various things come upon the earth. Luke goes on to record all of the various trails and tribulations as decribed by Jesus. It says that when this generation begins to see these things happen, that all of the things described will occur WITHIN the span of that one generation. So basically it will come fairly quickly, and not occur over hundreds of years apart. It will most likely be seen to all happen within a few very short years.

There are prophecies of Jerusalem being surrounded by her enemies. Well this has happened historically, but it is also scheduled in God's timetable to happen at the end of days. Basically Jerusalem will be overrun, people killed, women ravaged and raped etc. When the city is halfway overrun, it is AT THIS POINT that Jesus returns. This is the point where the Antichrist and his armies are judged.

So the generation that sees these things begin to occur is likely to be the generation to witness the end. And I suspect that we are already seeing a lot of this occur at present, leading me to believe we most likely are already a part of this generation.

Please show me in the text where a "future generation" is suggested at all. After describing the abomination of desolation, and the great tribulation coming Jesus the Christ Himself says "Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

Please share with me where you see the text that tells you these VERY specific words to VERY specific people means something COMPLETELY different to what they say clearly. You have to ADD to the text to get anything future. I am eager to hear your case though, and hope I'm not coming across too harsh. I know this is a high emotion topic, like all concerning the Truth of everything our God and Lord Jesus, but please know I am not trying to just "win" on the internet, I am interested in the answer to the questions I asked to the best of my ability and knowledge up to this point. So the highlighting and making words bold is not trying to "jab", only put attention on the words and phrases I think disagree with your view here. I appreciate the conversation though and am truly here to fellowship and learn. Thanks brother.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The "all" (v.32) necessarily must INCLUDE what v.24 had just stated:

"And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations [<--the 70ad events+]; and Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled [<--compare with Rev11:2b, which verse speaks of the time-period specifically being the SECOND HALF of the future trib yrs (/ 70th Wk of Daniel)--so it INCLUDES THAT time-period as well, in its reference to "till ALL be fulfilled" (v.32 in view of what v.24 had also just said)].

 

[Chris1975]

I believe when all is perfected

Please show me in the text where a "future generation" is suggested at all. After describing the abomination of desolation, and the great tribulation coming Jesus the Christ Himself says "Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

Please share with me where you see the text that tells you these VERY specific words to VERY specific people means something COMPLETELY different to what they say clearly. You have to ADD to the text to get anything future. I am eager to hear your case though, and hope I'm not coming across too harsh. I know this is a high emotion topic, like all concerning the Truth of everything our God and Lord Jesus, but please know I am not trying to just "win" on the internet, I am interested in the answer to the questions I asked to the best of my ability and knowledge up to this point. So the highlighting and making words bold is not trying to "jab", only put attention on the words and phrases I think disagree with your view here. I appreciate the conversation though and am truly here to fellowship and learn. Thanks brother.

Brother Jimbone, since you have asked sincerely and I don’t perceive any malice in intent, I will attempt to humbly respond on a topic that has been the subject of much debate throught the centuries. To look at Luke 21, we gain some additional perspective to look at its partner corollary in Matthew 24. We have two different gospel writers recording what was said by Jesus to this question asked by the disciples. What you will notice in the Matthew 24 account is that during this period of time, Jesus says that the abomination that causes desolation standing in the holy place - this refers very clearly to the Antichrist as well as the image that the false prophet sets up (which speaks) in Jerusalem (many say in the temple). This has not happened as yet, as the Antichrist has not yet been revealed to the world. Certainly he is not yet in a controlling position as yet. So when Jesus places this period of time as coinciding with the appearance of the Antichrist, we know that it is a future period of time.



It is also clear that we cannot ascribe “another meaning” to the abomination that causes desolation, because the verses that follow therefrom clearly talk about end of days events as opposed to the historical destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. For example:

21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

And

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.



So we should not be deceived into believing that this has happened already. It is still to come.

Now the scriptures continue with the following:

32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that [e]it is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.



It is common knowledge that Israel is known as the Fig Tree. They have been “born again” symbolically in that they were once again established as a nation in 1948 after almost 2000 years. Many prophecies have been fulfilled by this. So we know that we are potentially in the “zone” of these things appearing. The generation that sees the signs in Matthew 24 and Luke 21 will by no means pass away until all these things occur. Have the signs appeared. Certainly a number of them have started.

 

[Jimbone]

The "all" (v.32) necessarily must INCLUDE what v.24 had just stated:

"And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations [<--the 70ad events+]; and Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled [<--compare with Rev11:2b, which verse speaks of the time-period specifically being the SECOND HALF of the future trib yrs (/ 70th Wk of Daniel)--so it INCLUDES THAT time-period as well, in its reference to "till ALL be fulfilled" (v.32 in view of what v.24 had also just said)].

Yea but this really has nothing at all to do with Jesus looking those people in the eyes and saying "Truly I tell "YOU", the people I'm speaking too, not in any way am I saying anything about any other people now or in the future, to YOU I say, "THIS" generation, again not a far future generation but THIS generation will not pass away until ALL these things happen."

To try to make this say anything more than what it says is eisegesis strait up. You are just simply adding what you want it to say according to the tradition that has dominated the church for 70 years. It just doesn't fit without making Jesus wrong here. The end of the age came and went, behold the Kingdom in our midst, I proclaim the King is seated in victory right now until ALL enemies are made a footstool for His feet. King Jesus our Lord and Savior calls you to His kingdom now, repent and turn to the Way, the Truth, and the only Life, the one worthy that lay down His life so the unworthy might be reconciled to God, dead spirit resurrected and given life by His grace and reconciled to His Spirit opening our eyes to the Truth and the things of the spirit beyond the flesh, guiding us to all truth. Amen. You don't have to force it to fit this way, and we are called to proclaim His good news to everybody.

I do not see how pulling this one verse out of it's context shows or proves the other verse means something opposite from what it clearly says. How does this change "this generation" to "a far future generation that has nothing at all to do with you, who I'm speaking to, by the way you're going to need to write this down."

I just think you're WAY trying to over complicate it to make it fit what you've been taught it means all your life. I can not follow your case at all here. This verse does not even say to me what you are saying it does, then you're applying it to another verse to be like "this verse means this, therefore this other verse has to mean this to support it. This isn't a good argument at all man. Maybe I'm misunderstanding. Help me to see your point here because I'm not sure I'm getting it.

 

[JaumeJ]

What is true for one sinner is true for al when Jesus teaches… For all.

 

[garee]

I believe when all is perfected

Please show me in the text where a "future generation" is suggested at all. After describing the abomination of desolation, and the great tribulation coming Jesus the Christ Himself says "Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

Please share with me where you see the text that tells you these VERY specific words to VERY specific people means something COMPLETELY different to what they say clearly. You have to ADD to the text to get anything future. I am eager to hear your case though, and hope I'm not coming across too harsh. I know this is a high emotion topic, like all concerning the Truth of everything our God and Lord Jesus, but please know I am not trying to just "win" on the internet, I am interested in the answer to the questions I asked to the best of my ability and knowledge up to this point. So the highlighting and making words bold is not trying to "jab", only put attention on the words and phrases I think disagree with your view here. I appreciate the conversation though and am truly here to fellowship and learn. Thanks brother.

The question I would ask is where does the word generation get its meaning seeing it is used in motre than one way? Where is it shown used as a generation of one family and not generation like that of Adam as in natural man, or generation as in Christ as in spiritual eternal, new creatures"

We know the generation of man is considered the generation of evil .While the generation of Christ is the righteous the new creation
The generation having no righteousness of themselves.

Genesis 5:1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him

The generation of Adam no faith the faithless generation or called evil as false prophets called vipers.

Matthew 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.

The other generation (new)

Matthew 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Psalm 14:5There were they in great fear: for God is in the generation of the righteous.

How would the word generation apply below? Is third and forth the generations that go above the first and second ? Does the first generation apply to Adam and the second to Christ, as the second Adam .

Deuteronomy 5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,

It would seem each application should folow the context. Makes for a great study.

 

[Jimbone]

Brother Jimbone, since you have asked sincerely and I don’t perceive any malice in intent, I will attempt to humbly respond on a topic that has been the subject of much debate throught the centuries. To look at Luke 21, we gain some additional perspective to look at its partner corollary in Matthew 24. We have two different gospel writers recording what was said by Jesus to this question asked by the disciples. What you will notice in the Matthew 24 account is that during this period of time, Jesus says that the abomination that causes desolation standing in the holy place - this refers very clearly to the Antichrist as well as the image that the false prophet sets up (which speaks) in Jerusalem (many say in the temple). This has not happened as yet, as the Antichrist has not yet been revealed to the world. Certainly he is not yet in a controlling position as yet. So when Jesus places this period of time as coinciding with the appearance of the Antichrist, we know that it is a future period of time.



It is also clear that we cannot ascribe “another meaning” to the abomination that causes desolation, because the verses that follow therefrom clearly talk about end of days events as opposed to the historical destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. For example:

21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

And

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.



So we should not be deceived into believing that this has happened already. It is still to come.

Now the scriptures continue with the following:

32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that [e]it is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.



It is common knowledge that Israel is known as the Fig Tree. They have been “born again” symbolically in that they were once again established as a nation in 1948 after almost 2000 years. Many prophecies have been fulfilled by this. So we know that we are potentially in the “zone” of these things appearing. The generation that sees the signs in Matthew 24 and Luke 21 will by no means pass away until all these things occur. Have the signs appeared. Certainly a number of them have started.

But see that did happen and what He was describing was the judgement on the covenant breakers, the judgement that filled the streets with blood, had mothers eating their own babies, and even more than that Gods temple was torn down brick by brick and all genealogies were destroyed, the end of that age, just like Jesus said it would. See this is the biggest thing that is really drawing me to this view is just how well everything fits without forcing it. I don't need chart, timelines, and books torn apart and reassembled and explained by guru's so we common folk can understand.

I want to mention that I understand I used very blunt strait forward language when I say these things, but I'm just trying to do the same thing all of us who are in Christ are and proclaim the truth He's lead us too so far. I understand that and have been guilty of being rude and short with people causing a unnecessary divide and I want to be very careful here not to give the wrong impression here now because of the shortcomings of text based conversations. I was taught and believed the same thing you are sharing here before, so I understand why and how these belief's are held, but I trust His Spirit to guide me to all truth, and I trust Him to guide you to all truth as well, so I just want to come together and share my view, listen to your view, and praise the Lord the entire time no matter what. To look at all facts and learn the roots of all these teaching to grow closer to our God together. So again thank everyone that I get a chance to exchange with. I really love this stuff. In person is even better.

 

[Jimbone]

The question I would ask is where does the word generation get its meaning seeing it is used in motre than one way? Where is it shown used as a generation of one family and not generation like that of Adam as in natural man, or generation as in Christ as in spiritual eternal, new creatures"

We know the generation of man is considered the generation of evil .While the generation of Christ is the righteous the new creation
The generation having no righteousness of themselves.

Genesis 5:1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him

The generation of Adam no faith the faithless generation or called evil as false prophets called vipers.

Matthew 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.

The other generation (new)

Matthew 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Psalm 14:5There were they in great fear: for God is in the generation of the righteous.

How would the word generation apply below? Is third and forth the generations that go above the first and second ? Does the first generation apply to Adam and the second to Christ, as the second Adam .

Deuteronomy 5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,

It would seem each application should follow the context. Makes for a great study.

All you are doing now is finding instances in the bible where generation meant the same thing and some where is was used a different way and meant something else, then trying to conflate the two and applying them to Jesus VERY SPECIFIC words to make it mean something that doesn't even make sense in the context it was said to them.
This use of generation-"There were they in great fear: for God is in the generation of the righteous.
and this use- This is an evil generation: they seek a sign
Are two different uses completely, you don't get to take the meaning in "A" and make that usage and apply it to a completely unrelated instance just to mold it to fit you preconceived view. Can you not see how this is what you're doing here?

Trying to put "us" in scripture is silly in my opinion and just doesn't work. We were not there and Jesus did not mean us when He told THEM "THIS generation will not pass away until ALL these things, meaning the Abomination of Desolation, Great Tribulation everything, I meant read the whole chapter in order, it's clear as day that you HAVE to have His words mean the opposite of what they say. It is so strange to me why people want to make it so different when what we have matches everything so simply and even the historical and secular accounts back up exactly what the bible says so well. Even Early Christian historians Eusebius and Epiphanius left reports of how the Christians escaped the Great Tribulation to Pella. There is SO much that fit so perfect with every word. It's AMAZING. But when I start looking at the opposing view and how and when that came around, and I know the arguments for the pre-trib rapture belief being older than 100-150 years and I don't find it compelling. I don't believe we are waiting for a kingdom we can point too and say "there it is" to come around. That was the same way the Jews got it wrong, I'm in His kingdom today, right now with all my brothers and sisters right now doing His work and trying to go make disciples of ALL nations. I think sitting around shaking our heads at a world "going to hell in a hand basket" waiting for God to save us, is a deception to stifle our growth in Him.

 

[ProphetExcalibur]

The question I would ask is where does the word generation get its meaning seeing it is used in motre than one way? Where is it shown used as a generation of one family and not generation like that of Adam as in natural man, or generation as in Christ as in spiritual eternal, new creatures"

We know the generation of man is considered the generation of evil .While the generation of Christ is the righteous the new creation
The generation having no righteousness of themselves.

Genesis 5:1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him

The generation of Adam no faith the faithless generation or called evil as false prophets called vipers.

Matthew 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.

The other generation (new)

Matthew 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Psalm 14:5There were they in great fear: for God is in the generation of the righteous.

How would the word generation apply below? Is third and forth the generations that go above the first and second ? Does the first generation apply to Adam and the second to Christ, as the second Adam .

Deuteronomy 5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,

It would seem each application should folow the context. Makes for a great study.

Bro. Let me share something's with you about this generation from 30 to 70ad.

The Temple was destroyed in 70ad this is a fact in history, minus 40 years is 30ad. This is important!

Daniels last 7 wks, of his 70x7 wks, are given to us in two 3 1/2 yr periods; these two 3 1/2 yr periods are bookends, on both ends of this 40 years we call the Early Church!

Let's just say we know this to be true, we are still left in the dark concerning a lot of things, right!!

This generation you are speaking of is critical and one of the keys to unlocking these mysteries!

Joshua and Israel's 40 years in the wilderness is an exact template, to the paradigm shift of Jesus and this 40yr sacred generation. God is giving them a last chance!

I mean an exact template, as you can ever have, given it is an historical prophecy; that is played out in real time! But the church is numb to it because it has been dumb down with a false paradigm! HOW CAN YOU SEE SOMETHING YOUR NOT LOOKING FOR??

Here's the good news! To have a paradigm shift one must have a false paradigm of some sort!

...... The perfect 40 yr template............

.......Joshua ------------ Jesus....
......Crosses.................. crucified &...
river of death............. resurrected...
Began 40yr gen.... began 40yr gen.....

Joshua & Caleb...... Jesus & Holy Spirit...
Rejected by Israel... rejected as well....

Supernatural food... supernatural food
Manna & quale...... Lord's supper.........

Miracles of God...... Miracles of Jesus..
Before wife........,...... before Bride........

Death of unfaithful...old way in Adam.
In wilderness............ passes away........

Church in the............. Church set .....
Wilderness................. upon a hill..........

Joshua crosses over....... Jesus..............
2nd time......................2nd coming........
....... Into........... resurrection of the....
The promise Land.........dead................
End of 40 yr gen... end of 40 yr gen.....

Joshua takes ALL..... Jesus takes ALL....
Of Israel into...........the faithful of........
Promised Land..... Israel in Abraham's..
..............................bossom into promised.
,,..................................... Land....................

There's much much more, if you'll go look and listen! You just simply cannot change the template or the paradigm or you change God's Word!

 

[Blik]

Hi Blik , Some folks think ''this generation'' is the generation that is alive when Israel became a nation again in May 1948, some think when Israel recaptured Jerusalem in 1967 .. Some think it was the generation that Jesus actually walked the Earth 2000 yrs ago ..
The bible says a man is given 70 yrs, 80 if he's strong and after that his days are full of trouble so many count a generation as 70 yrs .. It gets confusing but keep you interested , me anyway ..

Why should we be confused when the gospels tell us what God means by this generation is three separate places?

 

[bojack]

Why should we be confused when the gospels tell us what God means by this generation is three separate places?

It's clear to me ..

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Yea but this really has nothing at all to do with Jesus looking those people in the eyes and saying "Truly I tell "YOU", the people I'm speaking too, not in any way am I saying anything about any other people now or in the future, to YOU I say, "THIS" generation, again not a far future generation but THIS generation will not pass away until ALL these things happen."

To try to make this say anything more than what it says is eisegesis strait up. You are just simply adding what you want it to say according to the tradition that has dominated the church for 70 years. It just doesn't fit without making Jesus wrong here. The end of the age came and went, behold the Kingdom in our midst, I proclaim the King is seated in victory right now until ALL enemies are made a footstool for His feet. King Jesus our Lord and Savior calls you to His kingdom now, repent and turn to the Way, the Truth, and the only Life, the one worthy that lay down His life so the unworthy might be reconciled to God, dead spirit resurrected and given life by His grace and reconciled to His Spirit opening our eyes to the Truth and the things of the spirit beyond the flesh, guiding us to all truth. Amen. You don't have to force it to fit this way, and we are called to proclaim His good news to everybody.

I do not see how pulling this one verse out of it's context shows or proves the other verse means something opposite from what it clearly says. How does this change "this generation" to "a far future generation that has nothing at all to do with you, who I'm speaking to, by the way you're going to need to write this down."

I just think you're WAY trying to over complicate it to make it fit what you've been taught it means all your life. I can not follow your case at all here. This verse does not even say to me what you are saying it does, then you're applying it to another verse to be like "this verse means this, therefore this other verse has to mean this to support it. This isn't a good argument at all man. Maybe I'm misunderstanding. Help me to see your point here because I'm not sure I'm getting it.

Well, first let me ask you if you saw my Post #4 in this thread?

Then I would say to you (what I think I've said before, if I recall), the writer [if you want to, we can just say the Spirit through the writer's pen] makes use of the "proleptic 'you'" (meaning, "all those in the future, of the same category"... so here, it is, "those TO WHOM the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom" was promised--like [/in the same way] "the 12" who were also promised that THEY will "sit on 12 thrones, judgING the 12 tribes of Israel"<--that's THEM, that ain't US, promised THAT!)

Paul makes use of the "proleptic 'we'" (if you will) when he says (OF, or TO/FOR/ABOUT, "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [*us*]), "then WE which are alive and remain unto...". Some try to suggest that Paul must have meant "our Rapture" would take place within his own lifetime, since he said "we," but what he means by "we" is the "proleptic 'we'" of "the Church which is His body" (to whom the Rapture SOLELY pertains), and this part about the "still-living/alive" portion of it (of course). It's not that he's saying it must take place within his own lifetime (by his use of the word "we"), but that his address is to "all those in the future, OF THE SAME CATEGORY" (those to whom "the RAPTURE" was promised, which is to/for/about/concerning "the Church which is His body" ONLY [all those saved "in this present age [singular]"]--and this part about those who will still be ALIVE when it takes place).

I had used the illustration of "residents of California"... where the governing leaders put out a document saying, "when she gets ready to blow, all of YOU are to head for the hills"... when the actual earthquake doesn't even take place for another 100 years: the "address" ['YOU'] is TO "all those in the future, OF THE SAME CATEGORY" (California residents); this is the "proleptic 'you'". It isn't concerning the people of Idaho (they aren't a part of "that category").

 

[Guojing]

I don't believe we are waiting for a kingdom we can point too and say "there it is" to come around. That was the same way the Jews got it wrong, I'm in His kingdom today, right now with all my brothers and sisters right now doing His work and trying to go make disciples of ALL nations. I think sitting around shaking our heads at a world "going to hell in a hand basket" waiting for God to save us, is a deception to stifle our growth in Him.

If you believe you are in his kingdom today, why aren't we seeing Isaiah 11:6 coming to pass?

Do you want to spiritualize promises like these?

 

[Jimbone]

If you believe you are in his kingdom today, why aren't we seeing Isaiah 11:6 coming to pass?

Do you want to spiritualize promises like these?

No I believe that will come when everything has been put under Him, when creation is perfected and Jesus presents it to the Father and if you are born again, if your spirit has been resurrected by His grace and reconciled to His Spirit and you are now born of His Spirit then you absolutely are in His kingdom? Do you "fleshualize" John 3:1-8? How about Luke 17:20-21? Jesus tells us strait up in Matthew that His kingdom is not of this world, did He not?

See what I mean about things fitting in this view, Isaiah 11:6 fit's perfectly in my theology, I also think 1 Cor 15:25 helps to explain how I see it, "For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet", I believe He is "reigning" right now, as King right now, His kingdom growing without end until EVERY enemy is under His feet, seated at the right hand of majesty on high covered in ALL glory worthy of ALL praise, THIS is the Jesus I will proclaim, ONLY by His grace, ALL by His power, ALL by His strength, ALL for His glory, And most of all, ALL praise to our King!!!!

This is where I'm at right now anyway, and I pray I'm not coming off arrogant here, but the scripture you gave fits in perfectly, I don't see the problem here. What am I missing? I also believe that this world has been, directly as a result of Jesus saving ALL creation, getting better and better, on the whole, that of course is up for debate, but we are blessed.