Will the Believer lose their salvation? Will the Believer continue to receive Grace? Does the Believer walk away from God? What happens?
What Happens To The Believer If They Leave The Cross, i.e., The Blood Of Jesus, i.e., The Perfect Sacrifice?
- Thread starter MessageOfTheCross
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L
LordsHandmaiden
Guest
WOW!
You are just spitting it out there aren't you!
Have you moved beyond the cross or are you still at it looking for a saviour?
Jesus is Gods Son born in the flesh,walked among men for 33 yrs,was crucified for the sins of whosoever WILL,died, was buried and rose again and HE IS SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER!
IF you are still at the cross then you are dead!
The cross doesnt save! He who hung on the cross does!
It's about Jesus and His sacrifice not the implement that was His torture unto death!
It is safe to venture into the word and GROW! The word is Holy Ghost inspired and He is our comforter and guide,He is sent to teach us beyond the cross!
You are just spitting it out there aren't you!
Have you moved beyond the cross or are you still at it looking for a saviour?
Jesus is Gods Son born in the flesh,walked among men for 33 yrs,was crucified for the sins of whosoever WILL,died, was buried and rose again and HE IS SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER!
IF you are still at the cross then you are dead!
The cross doesnt save! He who hung on the cross does!
It's about Jesus and His sacrifice not the implement that was His torture unto death!
It is safe to venture into the word and GROW! The word is Holy Ghost inspired and He is our comforter and guide,He is sent to teach us beyond the cross!
L
LordsHandmaiden
Guest
If the Believer who leaves the Cross, i.e., the Blood of Jesus, i.e., the Perfect Sacrifice: will they remain crucified with Christ? Are they abiding in Christ? (John 15:6), (Rom. 6:3-5), (Gal. 2:20-21).
Well Jesus Himself came down from the cross.
He did not stay in the tomb, either.
So i reckon the believer who follows Him does the same - is buried, is raised, and is taken up to be with Him, because He ain't on that cross anymore, Himself. He is in heaven preparing a place for us
To be in Christ means that the Believer has been crucified with Christ (the new covenant). Therefore, sin can no longer attach itself to the Believer.
To Believe you must go beyond the Cross means you are not crucified with Christ. There remains no other sacrifice for this Believer. Therefore, this Believer enters into "THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH." Sin will have dominion over you just like Cain.
Galatians 2:20 King James Version (KJV)
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
If you go beyond the Cross you walk away from God and enter death! In other words, you are no longer crucified with Christ.
To Believe you must go beyond the Cross means you are not crucified with Christ. There remains no other sacrifice for this Believer. Therefore, this Believer enters into "THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH." Sin will have dominion over you just like Cain.
Galatians 2:20 King James Version (KJV)
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
If you go beyond the Cross you walk away from God and enter death! In other words, you are no longer crucified with Christ.
John 15: 1-17 KJV
“1 I Am the True Vine (the True Israel, as He is the True Church, and the True Man; more specifically, He Alone is the Source of Life), and My Father is the Husbandman (refers to God the Father not simply as the Vinedresser, but also the Owner so to speak).
2 Every branch (Believer) in Me (to have Salvation, we must be “in Christ” which refers to trusting in what He did at the Cross) that bears not fruit (the Holy Spirit Alone can bring forth fruit within our lives, and He does such through the Finished Work of Christ, which demands that the Cross ever be the Object of our Faith) He takes away (if the Believer refuses the Cross, ultimately, he will be taken out of the Body of Christ): and every branch that bears fruit (has some understanding of Christ and the Cross), He purges it (uses whatever means necessary to make the Cross the total Object of one’s Faith), that it may bring forth more fruit (only when the Cross becomes the total Object of one’s Faith can the Holy Spirit perform His Work of bringing forth proper fruit [Rom. 8:1-2, 11]).
3 Now you are clean through the Word which I have spoken unto you (the answer, as always, is found in the Word of God; the Story of the Bible is “Jesus Christ and Him Crucified”).
4 Abide in Me (look to Him exclusively, and what He has done for us at the Cross), and I in you (if we properly abide in Him, which we can only do by ever making the Cross the Object of our Faith, then He will abide in us without fail). As the branch (Believer) cannot bear fruit of itself (one cannot Sanctify one’s self! it is impossible!), except it abide in the Vine (abiding in Him refers to the fact that we understand that every solution we seek, for whatever the need might be, is found only in Christ and the Cross; we must never separate Christ from the Cross [I Cor. 1:23; 2:2]); no more can you, except you abide in Me.
5 I am the Vine (not the Church, not a particular Preacher, not even a particular Doctrine, but Christ Alone), you are the branches (Believers): he who abides in Me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit (let us say it again; the Believer must understand that everything we receive from God comes to us exclusively through Christ and the Cross; that being the case, the Cross must ever be the Object of our Faith; then the Holy Spirit can develop fruit within our lives; it can be done no other way!): for without Me (what He did for us at the Cross) you can do nothing (the Believer should read that phrase over and over).
6 If a man abide not in Me (refuses to accept the Cross, which means he is serving “another Jesus” [II Cor. 11:4]), he is cast forth as a branch (is removed from the Source of Life), and is withered (without proper Faith in Christ and the Cross, the Believer ultimately withers); and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned (the implication is striking! if proper Faith in Christ and the Cross is Christ and the Cross is not maintained, the ultimate result is eternal Hell).
7 If you abide in Me (keep your Faith anchored in Christ and the Cross), and My Words abide in you (in fact, the entirety of the Word of God is the Story of “Christ and the Cross”), you shall ask what you will, and it shall be done unto you (proper Faith in Christ and the Cross desires only the Will of God, which Will is guaranteed now to be carried forth).
8 Herein is My Father Glorified (that Believers totally and completely place their Faith exclusively in Christ and the Cross), that you bear much fruit (meaning that Jesus did not die in vain, but that His Death on the Cross will result in “much fruit”); so shall you be My Disciples (Lk. 9:23-24).
9 As the Father has loved Me (the Heavenly Father loves us accordingly, as we abide in Christ), so have I loved you (the Good Shepherd gives His Life for the sheep): continue ye in My Love (we can continue in His Love, only as we continue in our Faith, which must ever have the Cross as its Object).
10 If you keep My Commandments (this can be done only by the Holy Spirit working within us, which He does according to our Faith in Christ and the Cross), you shall abide in My Love (this can be done only in the manner stated); even as I have kept My Father’s Commandments, and abide in His Love (the Father’s Commandment regarding Christ was that He was to go to the Cross [Mat. 16:21-24]; His Commandment to us is that we ever make Christ and the Cross Alone the Object of our Faith [Jn. 6:53]).
11 These things have I spoken unto you, that My Joy might remain in you (His Joy remains in us, only as our Faith is properly placed in Him and the Cross), and that your joy might be full (the Christian cannot know “full joy” until He properly understands the Cross, which means that he then properly understands Christ).
12 This is My Commandment, That you love one another (we can only do so through a proper understanding of the Cross), as I have loved you (He loved us enough to give His Life for us).
13 Greater love has no man than this (the epitome of love), that a man lay down his life for his friends (this portrays the Cross, as is obvious).
14 You are My friends (consequently, I lay down My Life for you), if you do whatsoever I Command you (as stated, we can only do what He Commands, as we allow the Holy Spirit latitude within our lives, which is done by ever making the Cross the Object of our Faith).
15 Henceforth I call you not servants (Faith in Christ and the Cross Alone can lift the Believer to a new status); for the servant knows not what his lord does (with faith improperly placed, the Lord cannot confide in us): but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of My Father I have made known unto you (therefore, we have no excuse!).
16 You have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you (it is not really that we find the Lord; the truth is, He finds us), and ordained you (has chosen us for a purpose), that you should go and bring forth fruit (as stated, we can only do this by ever looking to the Cross [Gal. 6:14]), and that your fruit should remain (as our Faith remains in the Cross, the fruit will remain): that whatsoever you shall ask of the Father in My Name (using His Name always refers to the victory He won at the Cross), He may give it you.
17 These things I Command you, that you love one another (if Faith is improperly placed, there is no love, even as there can be no love).”
JSM
“1 I Am the True Vine (the True Israel, as He is the True Church, and the True Man; more specifically, He Alone is the Source of Life), and My Father is the Husbandman (refers to God the Father not simply as the Vinedresser, but also the Owner so to speak).
2 Every branch (Believer) in Me (to have Salvation, we must be “in Christ” which refers to trusting in what He did at the Cross) that bears not fruit (the Holy Spirit Alone can bring forth fruit within our lives, and He does such through the Finished Work of Christ, which demands that the Cross ever be the Object of our Faith) He takes away (if the Believer refuses the Cross, ultimately, he will be taken out of the Body of Christ): and every branch that bears fruit (has some understanding of Christ and the Cross), He purges it (uses whatever means necessary to make the Cross the total Object of one’s Faith), that it may bring forth more fruit (only when the Cross becomes the total Object of one’s Faith can the Holy Spirit perform His Work of bringing forth proper fruit [Rom. 8:1-2, 11]).
3 Now you are clean through the Word which I have spoken unto you (the answer, as always, is found in the Word of God; the Story of the Bible is “Jesus Christ and Him Crucified”).
4 Abide in Me (look to Him exclusively, and what He has done for us at the Cross), and I in you (if we properly abide in Him, which we can only do by ever making the Cross the Object of our Faith, then He will abide in us without fail). As the branch (Believer) cannot bear fruit of itself (one cannot Sanctify one’s self! it is impossible!), except it abide in the Vine (abiding in Him refers to the fact that we understand that every solution we seek, for whatever the need might be, is found only in Christ and the Cross; we must never separate Christ from the Cross [I Cor. 1:23; 2:2]); no more can you, except you abide in Me.
5 I am the Vine (not the Church, not a particular Preacher, not even a particular Doctrine, but Christ Alone), you are the branches (Believers): he who abides in Me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit (let us say it again; the Believer must understand that everything we receive from God comes to us exclusively through Christ and the Cross; that being the case, the Cross must ever be the Object of our Faith; then the Holy Spirit can develop fruit within our lives; it can be done no other way!): for without Me (what He did for us at the Cross) you can do nothing (the Believer should read that phrase over and over).
6 If a man abide not in Me (refuses to accept the Cross, which means he is serving “another Jesus” [II Cor. 11:4]), he is cast forth as a branch (is removed from the Source of Life), and is withered (without proper Faith in Christ and the Cross, the Believer ultimately withers); and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned (the implication is striking! if proper Faith in Christ and the Cross is Christ and the Cross is not maintained, the ultimate result is eternal Hell).
7 If you abide in Me (keep your Faith anchored in Christ and the Cross), and My Words abide in you (in fact, the entirety of the Word of God is the Story of “Christ and the Cross”), you shall ask what you will, and it shall be done unto you (proper Faith in Christ and the Cross desires only the Will of God, which Will is guaranteed now to be carried forth).
8 Herein is My Father Glorified (that Believers totally and completely place their Faith exclusively in Christ and the Cross), that you bear much fruit (meaning that Jesus did not die in vain, but that His Death on the Cross will result in “much fruit”); so shall you be My Disciples (Lk. 9:23-24).
9 As the Father has loved Me (the Heavenly Father loves us accordingly, as we abide in Christ), so have I loved you (the Good Shepherd gives His Life for the sheep): continue ye in My Love (we can continue in His Love, only as we continue in our Faith, which must ever have the Cross as its Object).
10 If you keep My Commandments (this can be done only by the Holy Spirit working within us, which He does according to our Faith in Christ and the Cross), you shall abide in My Love (this can be done only in the manner stated); even as I have kept My Father’s Commandments, and abide in His Love (the Father’s Commandment regarding Christ was that He was to go to the Cross [Mat. 16:21-24]; His Commandment to us is that we ever make Christ and the Cross Alone the Object of our Faith [Jn. 6:53]).
11 These things have I spoken unto you, that My Joy might remain in you (His Joy remains in us, only as our Faith is properly placed in Him and the Cross), and that your joy might be full (the Christian cannot know “full joy” until He properly understands the Cross, which means that he then properly understands Christ).
12 This is My Commandment, That you love one another (we can only do so through a proper understanding of the Cross), as I have loved you (He loved us enough to give His Life for us).
13 Greater love has no man than this (the epitome of love), that a man lay down his life for his friends (this portrays the Cross, as is obvious).
14 You are My friends (consequently, I lay down My Life for you), if you do whatsoever I Command you (as stated, we can only do what He Commands, as we allow the Holy Spirit latitude within our lives, which is done by ever making the Cross the Object of our Faith).
15 Henceforth I call you not servants (Faith in Christ and the Cross Alone can lift the Believer to a new status); for the servant knows not what his lord does (with faith improperly placed, the Lord cannot confide in us): but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of My Father I have made known unto you (therefore, we have no excuse!).
16 You have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you (it is not really that we find the Lord; the truth is, He finds us), and ordained you (has chosen us for a purpose), that you should go and bring forth fruit (as stated, we can only do this by ever looking to the Cross [Gal. 6:14]), and that your fruit should remain (as our Faith remains in the Cross, the fruit will remain): that whatsoever you shall ask of the Father in My Name (using His Name always refers to the victory He won at the Cross), He may give it you.
17 These things I Command you, that you love one another (if Faith is improperly placed, there is no love, even as there can be no love).”
JSM
L
LordsHandmaiden
Guest
Why do you quote Jimmy Swaggart?
Are you not in Christ yourself?
God makes originals,not copies!
If you fear making mistakes or being attacked,no worries....it will happen as it does when you quote the Swaggarts.
It's ok to love one another but if you cannot stand alone in Jesus,I fear for you.
Step out and be WHO the LORD wants you to be!
Let Him use you ,for His plans,ways,thoughts....ect etc are higher than mans .
If you are a droid, then I accept your silence!
If you are a man or woman show the fellow believer in yourself......not this automated regurtator of someone else's ministry!
Are you not in Christ yourself?
God makes originals,not copies!
If you fear making mistakes or being attacked,no worries....it will happen as it does when you quote the Swaggarts.
It's ok to love one another but if you cannot stand alone in Jesus,I fear for you.
Step out and be WHO the LORD wants you to be!
Let Him use you ,for His plans,ways,thoughts....ect etc are higher than mans .
If you are a droid, then I accept your silence!
If you are a man or woman show the fellow believer in yourself......not this automated regurtator of someone else's ministry!
If they leave the truth that Jesus is Lord and Savior there is no coming back.
Some people believe it is not possible but the Bible warns us of it.
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
After we are saved we leave the essentials and move on to be like Christ led of the Spirit.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
If a person leaves the truth that Jesus is Lord and Savior for an alternate reality of another belief of Jesus, or another religion, or an atheist, and they mean it there is no coming back to the truth for they went back to the world and became a part of it, and God will not allow them to go through the process of being saved again by repenting.
Which this is an example.
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
Some will depart from the faith, so they had faith and confessed Jesus as Lord and Savior, but they forsook the truth and believed the Bible according to the occult, and evolution, and believed Jesus is not Lord and Savior, but a good teacher and evolved to be an ascended master and avatar, so if they believe that they made a mistake and believe again that Jesus is Lord and Savior they cannot be saved again.
They will forbid to marry for population reduction, and command to abstain from meats, nature worship, reverence of animals, because they hold a wrong viewpoint of the Bible.
But if a person believes this but has not accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior then they can turn to the truth that Jesus is Lord and Savior and be saved.
Some people do not believe once you have faith that you can lose it, but the Bible warns us of it, and some will depart this faith and follow the new age movement interpretation of the Bible in which they believe in evolution, and people are still evolving but this time to be spiritual provided by the New Age Christ in the future.
These people cannot come back to the truth if they leave the truth that Jesus is Lord and Savior, but a person that went to the new age movement and has never confessed Jesus as Lord and Savior can come to the truth and be saved for they never left it.
God will not allow a person to be saved again if they leave the truth of Jesus as Lord and Savior for an alternate reality whether the occult, or another religion, or another interpretation of Jesus, or being an atheist.
If someone has doubts concerning the truth after they accepted it does not qualify for they have not determined wholly in their heart concerning it, but in their doubt there is no salvation and must get rid of it, but in doubt there is hope, but in departing and mean it there is no hope.
The time will come when the world will only want to hear the Bible according to the new age movement in which they hold the interpretation of Jesus as not Lord and Savior, but a good teacher and love, and evolved to be spiritually great as they want to be too, which will be the unified religious system, and will cause the world to rebel against God and then it is the end.
Some will depart from the faith and follow them.
No, it isn't. Most people will end up in "hell" because of their rejection of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus, not because they have left the cross. They never got there in the first place.
Of course, you won't accept that, because it conflicts with the Swaggart heterodoxy that you have embraced.
S
selfdissolving
Guest
1 Peter 1:3-5
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you,
5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
Does Christ deny the believer forever when they deny him? like Peter in Mathew 16.
Christ cannot deny us if he began the good work of salvation in us . . he will finish it to the end. Remember as many as the father gave the Son. They alone can and therefore will come. Not one more or one less.
It becomes can Christ deny himself?
2 Timothy 2:12-14 King James Version (KJV) If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
Your Word for Today
“and He said, A certain man had two sons: And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falls to me. And he divided unto them his living. And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living (Lk. 15:11-13).
The Parable of the Prodigal Son portrays the only time in Scripture that God, personified in this Parable by the Father, is pictured running. In that for which, and to which, He ran, provides a fitting example of Who God is and What God is. He is love!
The spiritual declension of the son took place while he was in his father’s house. He fell from the moment he desired the father’s goods without the father’s company; and it only needed a few days to find him in the far country. Backsliding begins in the heart and very soon places the feet with the swine.
His only occupation was the degrading one — to a Jew — of a swine-herd, and his only food the husks that the swine did eat. No man gave to him; for in the Devil’s country, nothing is given, everything must be bought, and bought at a terrible price.
First of all, the Prodigal “came to himself” (15;15); then he “came to his father” (15:20). Such is the action of the Holy Spirit first upon the conscience and then upon the heart. While the boy was a great way off, the father saw, had compassion, ran, fell on his neck, kissed him, and said to the servants, “Bring . . . ” (15:20-22). All these activities express the grace and love that welcome true Repentance.
Grace ran to kiss the Prodigal in his rags; Righteousness hasted to dress him in its robes; for he could not sit in his rags at the father’s board. The Prodigal had not to provide the best robe, the ring, the sandals, and the fatted calf. They were provided for him, and they declared that his Repentance had been accepted; for servants were not thus arrayed and feasted. We must understand that there were no reproaches, rebukes, or reproofs for the past, no irritating admonitions for the future, because the Father and His Joy are the subjects of this story rather than the moral condition of the son.
The elder brother pictured the Pharisee. He neither understood nor shared in the Father’s joy. On the contrary, he was covetous and refused to sympathize, although his Father entreated him to do so. Self-righteous, he claimed to have given a perfect obedience. But his desire to make merry with his friends showed that morally he was as much lost to his Father as was his brother.
Christ, as “The Way,” is symbolized in the robe, the ring, the sandals, and the fatted calf, for He is Righteousness (II Cor. 5:21), Eternal Life (Jn. 11:25), Sonship (Jn. 1:12), and Peace (I Cor. 5:7-8). The death of the sinless calf was a necessity ere the feast could be enjoyed. Had the Prodigal refused this raiment and claimed the right to enter the Father’s house in his rags and nakedness, he, like Cain, would have been rejected. His was true Repentance, and so it accepted these gifts, assuring purity, perpetuity, position, and provision.
This Parable, in fact, destroys the argument that no Atoning and Mediating Saviour is needed between God and the sinner.”
—Donnie Swaggart (taken from the “Word for Every Day”)
Donnie Swaggart
What Happens To The Believer If They Leave The Cross, i.e., The Blood Of Jesus, i.e., The Perfect Sacrifice?
You no longer have the Son or the Father or eternal life.
2 John 1:9 NAS
9Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.
1 John 5:11-12 NAS
God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
You no longer have the Son or the Father or eternal life.
2 John 1:9 NAS
9Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.
1 John 5:11-12 NAS
God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
L
LordsHandmaiden
Guest
Does ANYONE here DENY Christ?
"Take up YOUR CROSS daily and follow me"
Luke9:23,Mt.16:24,Mk8:34
Mt.10:38 And he that taketh not HIS ( our own)cross,and followeth after me is NOT WORTHY OF ME.
Jesus said the above,He said we must also bear a sacrificial cross in our life by denying ourselves,the carnal nature,sin, anything that seperates from God.
As believers we accept that He took the curse of sin and paid that penalty on the cross.
We must move beyond after accepting into the heavenly realms of God's word ,just as Jesus did and is now at the right hand of the Father.
He is helping us to bear our cross daily in temptations,trials,persecutions, ect.....2 Pet.2:9,1Cor.10:13,1 Jn.4:4
May we all OVERCOME in this life,not be overcome by this life !
"Take up YOUR CROSS daily and follow me"
Luke9:23,Mt.16:24,Mk8:34
Mt.10:38 And he that taketh not HIS ( our own)cross,and followeth after me is NOT WORTHY OF ME.
Jesus said the above,He said we must also bear a sacrificial cross in our life by denying ourselves,the carnal nature,sin, anything that seperates from God.
As believers we accept that He took the curse of sin and paid that penalty on the cross.
We must move beyond after accepting into the heavenly realms of God's word ,just as Jesus did and is now at the right hand of the Father.
He is helping us to bear our cross daily in temptations,trials,persecutions, ect.....2 Pet.2:9,1Cor.10:13,1 Jn.4:4
May we all OVERCOME in this life,not be overcome by this life !
Once you leave the Cross to fix the problem...on your best day all you can do is try to patch it up! You cannot fix it! Because only the Cross deals with sin!
Pastor Tony Evans
Pastor Tony Evans
L