Not By Works

[EleventhHour]

: I believe "fallen from grace" here is descriptive of separate principals where one is to obey the truth and submit to the righteousness of Christ which is by GRACE through faith and the opposite where circumcision or any law will play even a small part in how we are seen as righteous before God.... which would turn grace into something else

Yes I absolutely would add this in since the experience of grace is absolutely connected to agreeing with God/obeying truth.

 

[EleventhHour]

Sorry about the Typos in that post, I did that before I had my morning COFFEE.

Coffee FIRST, then you can type:

Good for the brain indeed!!

 

[EleventhHour]

Even if I never do. I know your my sweet sister Of that, I have no doubt

Of course I as well ... I know your are brother in Christ!
It was a good discussion..

 

[EleventhHour]

I think I see what your saying,

remember, Positional grace (justification) is the contrast of Gal though. Not experiential (sanctification)

I kinda see what you saying... I agree the experience of grace helps us live out our sanctified life within for sure.

I think all the resources (holy spirit) are there within us, it is learning to make that be our outward self that is the challenge because of the flesh being always present.

 

[Judges1318]

If they persistently promote false teaching and cause others to stray, you remove them from the church.

Don't miss what the passage is saying.
Jesus said it is better to get rid of those in the body who cause stumbling than to keep them and cause little ones who believe in Jesus to stumble and go to the eternal flames of hell. But once saved always saved doctrine says that can not ever happen to believers.

Matthew 18:6-9 NAS
whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

7“Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!

8“If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it (those who cause stumbling) off and throw it from you; it is better for you (little ones who believe in Me) to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire. 9“If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it (those who cause stumbling) out and throw it from you. It is better for you (little ones who believe in Me) to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell.

 

[Discern]

Yes I do not disagree, but we must understand that grace is also the divine influence on the believer's heart as stated by Paul in Timothy.

King James Bible
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;


It is the empowering presence of Christ within us... without we have no chance to be victorious.... we stay in the influence by focusing on Him, otherwise we end up finishing in the flesh what was started in the spirit.

That is what the Galatians we doing... under grace means under its influence as well as the position of Grace which is irrevocable.

Very good post.

True submission is when we place ourselves under the mighty hand of God, and allow Him to deal with the root of our sin, which is an inclination towards unbelief, pride, and self idolatry, and progressively transform us to be inciined to faithfulness, humility, and God worship

It is a process of sanctification that begins but does not end at the new birth, although justification and positional sanctification are a completed work, this work is not completed until we are like Him when we see Him just as He is. At the second advent

This process is just as much a part of grace as justification and positional sanctification

 

[Judges1318]

If you are saved and fall away, there is no possibility of being renewed to repentance. I wonder if our “lose salvation” people believe this

When a Christian falls, they do not lose salvation. If they did, they would have to bring Christ down to crucify Him all over again to be saved

The believer who stops believing and goes back to unbelief does lose salvation. And they can not be saved again. God does not allow that.

I don't see how if that's true that makes it impossible that believers can lose their salvation.

 

[Judges1318]

But may God give us wisdom when to...ignore

He has given us that wisdom.

6“Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces. - Matthew 7:6 NAS

When the people you're sharing the things of God with resort to and become characterized by mocking and abusing and tearing you apart then you know that you are dealing with dogs and swine--unclean creatures. Don't engage them beyond that point. Jesus said so. When these attacks happen in the church they think they are doing God and Christianity a service by tearing you to pieces, but Christ says they are actually unclean creatures. Do not give them what is holy.

 

[Melach]

The believer who stops believing and goes back to unbelief does lose salvation. And they can not be saved again. God does not allow that.

is that what you believe? thats how it is?

 

[Discern]

He has given us that wisdom.

6“Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces. - Matthew 7:6 NAS

When the people you're sharing the things of God with resort to and become characterized by mocking and abusing and tearing you apart then you know that you are dealing with dogs and swine--unclean creatures. Don't engage them beyond that point. Jesus said so. When these attacks happen in the church they think they are doing God and Christianity a service by tearing you to pieces, but Christ says they are actually unclean creatures. Do not give them what is holy.

I will say that there is a point where you do shake the dust off your feet.

 

[Discern]

The believer who stops believing and goes back to unbelief does lose salvation. And they can not be saved again. God does not allow that.

I don't see how if that's true that makes it impossible that believers can lose their salvation.

When we sin, is it not in a sense an act of unbelief? And do you discern a difference between temporary backsliding and final apostasy?

( I am a former NOSAS Arminian, so I am using their terms

 

[BillG]

You do not need to study it, it comes natural to those who are in Christ and Christ in them.

Gal 5:22-26 KJV
(22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
(23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
(24) And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
(25) If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
(26) Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

God bless.

Do you think it comes naturally?

Is it not something we grow in?
AKA sanctification

 

[Discern]

Do you think it comes naturally?

Is it not something we grow in?
AKA sanctification

I think he meant In other words, we do not manufacture it, He produces it, as we yield to His Grace more and more

And it does grow as we mature, yes.

 

[BillG]

These verses do speak of believers.
Paul is worried not for the loss of their salvation but for their loss of abiding in Christ and the loss of the experience of living under grace... not losing the position of grace ... which is not possible.

Loss of rewards maybe?

 

[Discern]

Loss of rewards maybe?

I know from experience that if you put yourself under a works based religion, you deprive yourself of the Power that produced godliness

You end up having a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof.

And a form of godliness is not the genuine article

 

[Discern]

I know from experience that if you put yourself under a works based religion, you deprive yourself of the Power that produced godliness

You end up having a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof.

And a form of godliness is not the genuine article

I was miraculously converted, but kind of fell into a way of thinking that my remaining in grace was in part conditioned on my continued obedience and works and was a hairs breadth away from perfectionism. . God corrected me. So, yes. I believe a believer can fall into error and be restored.

Did I lose my salvation? No. I lost peace and assurance and my fellowship with God was affected. I fell into bondage of sin again. I was unfruitful. I hurt myself and others. But I was restored.

 

[Discern]

I was miraculously converted, but kind of fell into a way of thinking that my remaining in grace was in part conditioned on my continued obedience and works and was a hairs breadth away from perfectionism. . God corrected me. So, yes. I believe a believer can fall into error and be restored.

Did I lose my salvation? No. I lost peace and assurance and my fellowship with God was affected. I fell into bondage of sin again. I was unfruitful. I hurt myself and others. But I was restored.

An old hymn said “ the arm of flesh will fail you, you dare not trust your own”.

I think it was “At the Cross”

 

[EleventhHour]

Loss of rewards maybe?

I had not thought if this... certainly while they were doing what they were doing missing out on the riches of God's grace.

 

[PS]

Do you think it comes naturally?

Is it not something we grow in?
AKA sanctification

Yes, I think our growth in grace comes naturally as we grow spiritually with Christ to guide us and keep us, while ever we are in His presence.

 

[BillG]

Can a true believer fall from Grace? Can they fall from unmerited favor? I think we need to think deeply about this.

If we can. We better find some other hope. Because Gods grace is not sufficient to the point he can keep us. We r in danger of falling away and ending up in hell.

The prodigal son never fell from Grace, Gods grace still sustained his salvation. He did fall from a life of blessing. Because God went from a loving father who blessed. To a loving father who chastened. But he never fell fm grace.

Does this make sense? DO you see why I see it the way I do? I am sorry if I am not presenting myself in a way that is understandable. I am under the weather.. Been sick for a few days.

I don't believe a true believer can fall from grace.
But I do believe a believer can negate the working of grace in their lives.

We only need to look at the prodical son.
Still a son, yet ended up eating the food of pigs after peeing it up against the wall.
Miserable period of time.

Whilst doing that he could not experience the unmerited favour until he returned.
Yet we know he was still a son of the Father.
Being the son and walking with the Father.