Not By Works

[EleventhHour]

What did they return from? Answer they returned from knowing Christ, back into their old ways.

I would agree.... but they did not loose their salvation.... that is not what has happened.

 

[EleventhHour]

Yeah, But I NEVER thoughtI could be justified by my works.

Because I know no matter how good I am I will never be good enough. And no amount of work could ever make up for my sins.

That would never cross my mind because I knew the truth of the gospel when I got on my hands and knees.

For freedom did Christ set us free: stand fast therefore, and be not entangled again in a yoke of bondage. (Gal 5:1)

This verse makes it clear what has happened to them.... returning to bondage when they did not need to ... but they did not understand this... hence the reason for the letter.

 

[EleventhHour]

That's what I've been saying all along.
The born again person who goes back to unbelief is now an unbeliever.
Only believers continuing in faith are protected by God's power:

1 Peter 1:4-5 NAS
an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

No more faith in Christ means no more power of God protecting you in salvation.

It's fine if you want to think that believers will always believe and so will always be protected, but we know from the Galatians, the Corinthians, and the Hebrew church that is not true.

Wow that is not what this verse is stating at all..... the faith has already saved them that is why it is imperishable!!

 

[blue_ladybug]

 

[blue_ladybug]

 

[Judges1318]

This is not directed at anyone in particular...

It is possible for a person to be saved, receive grace, but not yet fully understand the full ramifications of grace. God will instruct them. That is why I do not pound on a person with Thor’s hammer that may have some error. I may be harming a little one. I am a little one with huge holes in my understanding

So we must treat the little ones, (which includes all of us who are saved) with gentleness

Yes. And look what Jesus said about those who lead little ones who believe in him to stumble and go to eternal hell:

Matthew 18:6-9 NAS
6but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

7“Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!

8“If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire. 9“If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell.

It's better for believers to cast away those among them who cause them to stumble then it is for believers to keep them around and be caused to stumble and go to the eternal fire.

 

[EleventhHour]

This is not directed at anyone in particular...

It is possible for a person to be saved, receive grace, but not yet fully understand the full ramifications of grace. God will instruct them. That is why I do not pound on a person with Thor’s hammer that may have some error. I may be harming a little one. I am a little one with huge holes in my understanding

So we must treat the little ones, (which includes all of us who are saved) with gentleness

Yet, what do we when they consistently promote false doctrine that causes others to stumble?

You you not want to save someone from falling into error... I think there are times for rebuke.with love for fellow believers... however those that are not saved (false teachers) better to not even entreat them.

 

[RebuildJesussChurch]

Yes. And look what Jesus said about those who lead little ones who believe in him to stumble and go to eternal hell:

Matthew 18:6-9 NAS
6but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

7“Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!

8“If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire. 9“If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell.

It's better for believers to cast away those among them who cause them to stumble then it is for believers to keep them around and be caused to stumble and go to the eternal fire.

Yeah. Reminds me, in a way, of the parable of the tares, too. "The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil." Mt. 13:41

 

[EleventhHour]

View attachment 208264

So cute!
That is one happy kitten... I wish I could have day like that rather than deal frigid cold temperatures as I head out the door!

 

[Discern]

Are you in agreement with this @Discern I am curious?

I will say that the true believers were under attack by false teachers that were trying to seduce them and lure them away from the simplicity of Christ, and God used Paul to warn them and exhort them to reject the Judaistic heresy.

I do not wish to go further than that. I feel that in saying this I am being careful with my words

 

[Discern]

Yes. And look what Jesus said about those who lead little ones who believe in him to stumble and go to eternal hell:

Matthew 18:6-9 NAS
6but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

7“Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!

8“If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire. 9“If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell.

It's better for believers to cast away those among them who cause them to stumble then it is for believers to keep them around and be caused to stumble and go to the eternal fire.

.
The first text WARNS us not to be stumbling blocks,

if one errs, restore them in the spirit of meekness

 

[Discern]

Yeah. Reminds me, in a way, of the parable of the tares, too. "The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil." Mt. 13:41

Yes. There are counterfeits in the kingdom.

 

[Discern]

Yet, what do we when they consistently promote false doctrine that causes others to stumble?

You you not want to save someone from falling into error... I think there are times for rebuke.with love for fellow believers... however those that are not saved (false teachers) better to not even entreat them.

If they persistently promote false teaching and cause others to stray, you remove them from the church.

Or if you are on a message board, you can rebuke THOSE sharply. But may God give us wisdom when to intreat, when to rebuke, and when to ignore

 

[Discern]

I do not think the letter is speaking to initial repentance... it is speaking to them having repented but once again going back to trying the law.

I think they were in the process of receiving bad teaching, and God used Paul to airlift them out of it

If you are saved and fall away, there is no possibility of being renewed to repentance. I wonder if our “lose salvation” people believe this

When a Christian falls, they do not lose salvation. If they did, they would have to bring Christ down to crucify Him all over again to be saved

 

[Discern]

Yet, what do we when they consistently promote false doctrine that causes others to stumble?

You you not want to save someone from falling into error... I think there are times for rebuke.with love for fellow believers... however those that are not saved (false teachers) better to not even entreat them.

Another thing to consider is whether the disagreement is over an essential or a non essential issue I tend to just agree to disagree with folks on nonessentials

 

[EleventhHour]

I think they were in the process of receiving bad teaching, and God used Paul to airlift them out of it

If you are saved and fall away, there is no possibility of being renewed to repentance. I wonder if our “lose salvation” people believe this

When a Christian falls, they do not lose salvation. If they did, they would have to bring Christ down to crucify Him all over again to be saved

If you are saved and fall away, there is no possibility of being renewed to repentance.

How do you understand this?
... what does it mean no possibility of renewed to repentance?

 

[OneOfHis]

These verses do speak of believers.
Paul is worried not for the loss of their salvation but for their loss of abiding in Christ and the loss of the experience of living under grace... not losing the position of grace ... which is not possible.

Paul is worried, that for some of those among this church would not gain from all his work in hopes to share with them the truth.

This is for all of these people, those who are in the church and believe to be saved as well as those who truly are saved.

If the preacher at local congregation is sharing the gospel constantly, I am sure he would share these same fears... ( gal 4)


gal 5 4-5 is again a comparison between those who would think could "help" justify themselves to those who know that the righteousness of Christ is what justifies us...


These verses address the church as a whole

not just believers or unbelievers but the wheat and tares

"fallen from grace" as to say having heard the truth but muddied it with "adding to" via laws/works

and a " little leaven leaveneth the whole lump" goes to show how even adding a little bit changes the whole gospel...


pretty sure all of us agree on that right?

Eg was pointing specifically at "those who Christ became of none effect to,those who do not obey the truth"

these would be those with the added "leaven"

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Can you give me a verse where we are speaking to initial repentance/salvation in the letter?

I do not see it?

I do understand your point?

marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert[a] the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be [b]accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comesthrough the law, then Christ died [j]in vain.”

This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so [c]many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed iseveryone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is [d]justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

He did nto say they all were. He said as many of you who were. Then he said IF you are christs, insinuations some of them were not.

the context is justification by faith vs being justified by law/

 

[eternally-gratefull]

They had trusted Christ... they were in the position of Grace..... because of severe persecution they were faltering returning to old ways... affecting their experience of the new life in Christ.

Where does it say this in the passage?

I do not like to base my interpretations on something that may be true sis.

The context was being justified by law. Not being sanctified by law.

Paul was arguing against legalistic gospel. Which has no power to save. And he was warning this who have yet to fully come to faith not to return to what could never save them to begin with,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't think he understands that to be severed from Christ, means you need to belong to Christ first, before you can be severed.

Another assumption

Judas belong to christ, but we know he was never saved, Because his faith was not in his need for a savior but in a king who would free him from rome.

He was severed from Grace