Not By Works

[VCO]

[26] For if we sin wilfully after having the knowledge of the truth, there is now left no sacrifice for sins, [27] But a certain dreadful expectation of judgment, and the rage of a fire which shall consume the adversaries. [28] A man making void the law of Moses, dieth without any mercy under two or three witnesses: [29] How much more, do you think he deserveth worse punishments, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath esteemed the blood of the testament unclean, by which he was sanctified, and hath offered an affront to the Spirit of grace? [30] For we know him that hath said: Vengeance belongeth to me, and I will repay. And again: The Lord shall judge his people.

1 Peter 2:13-17 (NKJV)
13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme,
14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men--
16 as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God.
17 Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.


You Sin every time you exceed the posted speed limit by one or more M.P.H.

You Sin every time you toss a candy bar wrapper or cigarette butt out the Window of your car.

You Sin if you fail to pick up your dog's poop where City ordinance prohibits it.

You Sin every time you park illegally for any reason.

You Sin every time you smoke where it is prohibited.

You Sin every time you are in the commuter lane without a Passenger.

You Sin every time you do not have a lease on your dog when it is prohibited.


Shall I go on, as there are Plenty of Ordinances of man that I have not covered yet.

PLUS the bible says the THOUGHT is as bad as the DEED. It even says HATING is as bad as Murder.

Ecclesiastes 7:20 (NKJV)
20 For there is not a just man on earth
who does good And does not sin.

In fact, the BIBLE says if you stumble at one small point of the law, you are GUILTY OF THE ENTIRE LAW.

James 2:10 (CSBBible)
10 For whoever keeps the entire law, and yet stumbles at one point, is guilty of breaking it all.

 

[Judges1318]

Works that prove salvation is a Gospel of works because "by works" is not how we are saved.

Read 1 John 3:10

I have and I am still right..

You read this?

1 John 3:10 NAS
10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

And you are still sure that if works prove salvation, as John is saying above, that is a gospel of works?

For starters, explain how the verse above isn't saying we can tell believers from unbelievers by if they practice righteousness or not.
And then explain how if it were true (which it is) that would be a works gospel.
Then, if you wouldn't mind, explain your understanding of James' justification by works.

The whole letter of 1 John was written to the church so we would discern unsaved people bringing false doctrines into the church and not be led astray by them. The way we do that is look at how they live. False people are known by the fruit they produce. Good trees produce good fruit. Bad trees produce bad fruit. Surely you know this(?)

.. the only righteousness is Christ Jesus

You don't have any righteous works?

 

[calibob]

You read this?

1 John 3:10 NAS
10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

And you are still sure that if works prove salvation, as John is saying above, that is a gospel of works?

THE FIRST FRUIT IS LOVE, the most obvious gift of the Holy Spirit is love. ^ do you see the red in your own post above?

1 Corinthians 13:2 "If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing." NIV

 

[EleventhHour]

You read this?

1 John 3:10 NAS
10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

And you are still sure that if works prove salvation, as John is saying above, that is a gospel of works?

For starters, explain how the verse above isn't saying we can tell believers from unbelievers by if they practice righteousness or not.
And then explain how if it were true (which it is) that would be a works gospel.
Then, if you wouldn't mind, explain your understanding of James' justification by works.

The whole letter of 1 John was written to the church so we would discern unsaved people bringing false doctrines into the church and not be led astray by them. The way we do that is look at how they live. False people are known by the fruit they produce. Good trees produce good fruit. Bad trees produce bad fruit. Surely you know this(?)

You don't have any righteous works?

This verse is not a test of salvation.
'Obvious" is a horrible word to use in that translation.... "manifest" is much better.

John is simple stating that by abiding in Jesus, believers can and do manifest themselves as children of God. But those who do not abide do not so manifest themselves.

The reality of their regenerate inward man remains hidden.

Similar to what James stated don't you think? John like James calling believers to manifest outwardly their new inward nature.

 

[dcontroversal]

Age 7 you say....... your first words as a baby must have been variables and integers.... instead of ma..ma and pa..pa

Hahaha my first full sentence was at 10 months haha

 

[EleventhHour]

Hahaha my first full sentence was at 10 months haha

That is very impressive.... but you meant grade seven I presume?

 

[Lightskin]

Ain’t no sunshine when she’s gone...
Sorry, I can’t help myself.

 

[Lightskin]

You're gonna fly away, glad your goin' my way, I love it when we're cruising together. The music is played for love, Cruising is made for love, I love it when we're cruising together.

Smokey: A good change of pace. 😎

 

[EleventhHour]

You're gonna fly away, glad your goin' my way, I love it when we're cruising together. The music is played for love, Cruising is made for love, I love it when we're cruising together.

Smokey: A good change of pace. 😎

Hey....I grew across from Motown....I have every song committed to memory.

 

[EleventhHour]

Ain’t no sunshine when she’s gone...
Sorry, I can’t help myself.

No worries I am still here

 

[JadenS]

TAKE UP YOUR CROSS.

[21] From that time Jesus began to shew to his disciples, that he must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the ancients and scribes and chief priests, and be put to death, and the third day rise again. [22] And Peter taking him, began to rebuke him, saying: Lord, be it far from thee, this shall not be unto thee. [23] Who turning, said to Peter: Go behind me, Satan, thou art a scandal unto me: because thou savourest not the things that are of God, but the things that are of men. [24] Then Jesus said to his disciples: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. [25] For he that will save his life, shall lose it: and he that shall lose his life for my sake, shall find it.

[26] For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul? [27] For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels: and then will he render to every man according to his works. [28] Amen I say to you, there are some of them that stand here, that shall not taste death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

 

[PennEd]

You read this?

1 John 3:10 NAS
10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

And you are still sure that if works prove salvation, as John is saying above, that is a gospel of works?

For starters, explain how the verse above isn't saying we can tell believers from unbelievers by if they practice righteousness or not.
And then explain how if it were true (which it is) that would be a works gospel.
Then, if you wouldn't mind, explain your understanding of James' justification by works.

The whole letter of 1 John was written to the church so we would discern unsaved people bringing false doctrines into the church and not be led astray by them. The way we do that is look at how they live. False people are known by the fruit they produce. Good trees produce good fruit. Bad trees produce bad fruit. Surely you know this(?)



You don't have any righteous works?

Give us YOUR righteous works.

 

[EleventhHour]

Give us YOUR righteous works.

Most excellent response!!

 

[Judges1318]

The reality of their regenerate inward man remains hidden.

That's not what John says:

1 John 3:7 KJV
7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8He that committeth sin is of the devil

The righteous deeds of the righteous person IS the reality of their inward man. Just as the unrighteousness deeds of the unrighteous person is the reality of their inward man.

At the end of the day, the person who isn't on the outside what they say they are in the inside is not what they say they are.

 

[Judges1318]

Give us YOUR righteous works.

Compassion, forgiveness, and so on (I won't share specifics)......all the things fueled by the fruit of the Spirit at work in me:

Galatians 5:22-23 KJV
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance

Don't these things characterize your life, now that Christ is in you by the Holy Spirit?
I didn't ask if you are perfect in these things. I'm asking if your life can be generally characterized by these things, and in increasing measure as the years go by.

 

[Discern]

Compassion, forgiveness, and so on (I won't share specifics)......all the things fueled by the fruit of the Spirit at work in me:

Galatians 5:22-23 KJV
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance

Don't these things characterize your life, now that Christ is in you by the Holy Spirit?
I didn't ask if you are perfect in these things. I'm asking if your life can be generally characterized by these things, and in increasing measure as the years go by.

Yes. Fruit of the Spirit and the results of it are the results of our union with Christ.

 

[Judges1318]

If one believes salvation is not secure ...

Who said salvation is not secure?
Salvation in Christ is the safest, most secure place there is in all the universe.
That's why we are exhorted to stay there.

If one believes salvation is not secure ...then you uphold Roman dogma.

That is no more true than you believing in your version of once saved always saved is you upholding Calvin's version of once saved always saved. (Calvin believed you were not saved if you stopped believing).

 

[dcontroversal]

That is very impressive.... but you meant grade seven I presume?

She has jokes.......silly....I said my first full sentence at 10 months old and did grade 12 algebra at age 7......... 🤓

 

[dcontroversal]

You run all over the forum yelling about the need for believing "sound doctrine" but you don't have the stones to define what "sound doctrine" means. Get some integrity.

He openly admits he is not saved yet a few pages back

 

[Discern]

That's not what John says:

1 John 3:7 KJV
7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8He that committeth sin is of the devil

The righteous deeds of the righteous person IS the reality of their inward man. Just as the unrighteousness deeds of the unrighteous person is the reality of their inward man.

At the end of the day, the person who isn't on the outside what they say they are in the inside is not what they say they are.

"doeth righteousness" and "committeth sins" refers to what our lifestyle is marked by. Christians sin, but their lifestyle is not to be characterized by sin. Our lifestyle is to be characterized by righteousness. Now a life characterized by sin or characterized by righteousness is not referring to an action here and there. It is a continual pattern of life.

Which path are we walking on? Are we walking in the Light or away from the Light.

If we are walking in and towards the light, our lives will increasingly be marked by righteous and holy characteristics. If we are walking away from the Light, our lives will be ruled by darkness.