What is your BEST PROOF for a pre-trib Rapture?

[Melach]

You said the following and I quote: "The Church is DEFINATELY in heaven during the gt. Jesus is emphatic about it. My verses prove that hands down."

You also admitted that you found evidence of your view in 30 seconds, really? Did you actually read the evidence for yourself? You also gave a list of "Early Church Fathers" that apparently support your position.

Now, I did my homework and found this:

"Tribulation
Among those who believed in an earthly millennial reign, the fathers believed that the church would undergo the tribulation. Hippolytus (see his Treatise on Christ and Antichrist, 64) and Irenaeus are two good examples, the latter of which wrote:

And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.” For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption. (Against Heresies, 5.29)"​

How come when I checked out what you said I found two names on your list, Hippolytus and Irenaeus and they believed the church WOULD undergo the tribulation? . Your in the "big leagues" now where you have to prove your position with evidence as opposed to just making "loudmouth" statements. I suggest you read Acts 17:11.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

this is exactly the statement i talked about this is always used by pre-tribbers out of context this one from irenaeus and other one from cyprian. ridiilous. didache, iranaeus, justin martyr, cyprian all were post-tribbers and what would be considered today "replacement theology"

im not saying they were right im saying there isnt case to be made they were pretribbers.

 

[Hevosmies]

In both the parable of the 10 virgins,and rev 14,jesus returns,gathers,and never touches earth.

Are those 2 events the postrib rapture????

Broski you always bring up revelation 14. This aint a salvation issue so lets not get too fired up here. IM JUST ASKING BRO

Where is the rapture in revelation 14? Is it the reaping? I think the chapter is vague at best and is most likely talking about the second coming, just like revelation 11:15 and revelation 16 is. Else we got like 4 different second comings in the book of revelation! I vote for NOT CHRONOLOGICAL and I believe i can prove it.

 

[bluto]

this is exactly the statement i talked about this is always used by pre-tribbers out of context this one from irenaeus and other one from cyprian. ridiilous. didache, iranaeus, justin martyr, cyprian all were post-tribbers and what would be considered today "replacement theology"

im not saying they were right im saying there isnt case to be made they were pretribbers.

Your exactly right. I remember many years ago I saw a list of post-tribulationist and I remember that Corrie ten Boom was on the list with many others. I did some research and found this great site which eplains the post-trib view and all the notable people who believe in the pos-tribulation position. It's a long read but gives some good Biblical evidence. I do not know the guy who wrote it but I did exactly what he did at the beginning of his testimony about reading with an open mind and reading every word carefully in context. This is the point I was trying to make to the TheDivineWatermark.

https://www.aboundingjoy.com/posttrib.htm

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[Tinkerbell725]

Please remember UC Berkley and Word of God are not compatible LOL Just saying. Liberal school.

It does not matter. Gene Kim is very anti liberal. The liberals hate his preaching. But the slight problem with his church is legalism. But I can see it is just the result of being firm Bible believers.

 

[presidente]

The catholics burned entire villages.

Pretrib rapture was but one such grievance.
Again,look it up yourself.

Which group were pretrib?

 

[Guojing]

Did not Isaiah and david describe him in detail?

And Abel and Cain are able to read what they wrote?

 

[Oseas]

first God has supernaturally saved His people as a normative.

Yes, and now what or how will be the protection of the body of Christ, the true Church of Him, once the Church is face to face with the red Dragon, with its 7 heads, 10 horns, and a terrible and demoniacal TAIL?

Here is what the Most High and Almighty God will do:

Revelation 12:14 KJB - And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

WHAT KIND OF EVENT WILL BE THAT? TO THE WOMAN WILL BE GIVEN TWO WINGS OF GREAT EAGLE TO SOAR OR RISE UP
Hallelujaaa! What is written in the Word of God? Isaiah prophesied saying: 40:v.31- They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they will SOAR ALOFT with WINGS AS EAGLES.

Now, now, this will happen because the Most High will give Power unto His TWO WITNESSES- the OLD and NEW Testaments-the Word is God- and the prophecies of both Testaments will be preached through the saints of the Most High God and will prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days. With this promise, the Word of God has from now on Power over waters - over peoples, nations, multitudes, and tongues- to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth WITH ALL PLAGUES, as often as will.

By the way, remember that even the gospel of the Kingdom was preached in all the world for a WITNESS unto all nations, and the end comes. Well, the end of the world of Devil has already arrived. What we will see henceforward are punishments and punishments, only and only punishments will fall upon all nations, and God will destroy them which destroy the earth (Revelation 11:v.18).

Isaiah prophesied, saying: 60:v.8 - Who are these that FLY as a CLOUD and as the DOVES to their windows?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Where is the rapture in revelation 14? Is it the reaping?

The reaping and the sickle represent the divine judgment of the unbelieving and the wicked. Only those with a fantastic imagination will see the Rapture in Revelation 14, which is all about wrath.

 

[Oseas]

All agree in the tribulation as being Gods wrath & judgment poured out on the earth. The Christian is not subjected to that judgement. so the same idea of a verse here or there in context as to:

The people of God must remember Êxodus 12:13 - And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I SEE THE BLOOD, I WILL PASS OVER YOU, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.

Êxodo 11:4 - 7

4 And Moses said, Thus saith the Lord, About midnight will I go out into the midst of Egypt: (See Matt.25:v.6)

5 And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the first born of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts. (See Revelation 19:v.19-21)

6 And there shall be a great cry throughout all the land of Egypt, such as there was none like it, nor shall be like it any more.

7 But against any of the children of Israel shall not a dog move his tongue, against man or beast: that ye may know how that the Lord doth put a difference between the Egyptians and Israel. (Read the prophecy of Malachi 3:v.16-18)

 

[Oseas]

There is no debate. There are two raptures.

Do not forget, speculations, and presumptions, and conjectures. and cunningly devised fables, has nothing to do with the Word of God. The testimony of JESUS is the Spirit of prophecy. What prevails is the Word of God. The Word is God - God is a title - . It is written: 1John 5:v.7 - There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word(the Word made flesh), and the Holy Spirit: and these three are One.

 

[Oseas]

Yeah he was confused in using lot and noah.

That watching,be ready,and waiting for his coming was also to be disregarded

You are saying nothing Satan, spirit of darkness.I know you Satan, your thinking is from a human perspective, not from God’s perspective.

Now, even now, henceforwards, you will be cast down into the bottomless pit, your followers into the hell's fire. I have power and authority to lay hold and bind you and cast you into the abyss, Satan. Your days, Satan, are already numbered and you will be thrown into the bottomless pit so that you will not deceive the nations any more. Go down to the abyss Satan, your own place.

 

[Melach]

The reaping and the sickle represent the divine judgment of the unbelieving and the wicked. Only those with a fantastic imagination will see the Rapture in Revelation 14, which is all about wrath.

absolutely is a pre-tribber like you though. im surprised you dont agree on that

me i see revelation 14 as the second coming too. i see second coming many times also and its so easily to proof that the book of revelation is not chronological by just asking does babylon fall twice?

Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

clearly this is same event in rev 14 and 18. babylon falls, Jesus returns after it.

 

[Absolutely]

this is exactly the statement i talked about this is always used by pre-tribbers out of context this one from irenaeus and other one from cyprian. ridiilous. didache, iranaeus, justin martyr, cyprian all were post-tribbers and what would be considered today "replacement theology"

im not saying they were right im saying there isnt case to be made they were pretribbers.

I think it was immanency.
They believed bo t h immenency sp? And the saints going through the gt.

You can not make a stand on church fathers.
That is why i do not center on that silliness

My point was NEITHER SIDE HAS any smoking gun.

But you guys are blinded because i SAID I did a 30 second search.

It was to prove you have no point,not that 90% belived what they believed.
You go extra biblical and claim such high ground and are oblibious that the early fathers were all over the place doctrinally.

Psssst,you need them to be INFALLABLE to make their eschatology as from Jesus himself.

 

[Absolutely]

You are saying nothing Satan, spirit of darkness.I know you Satan, your thinking is from a human perspective, not from God’s perspective.

Now, even now, henceforwards, you will be cast down into the bottomless pit, your followers into the hell's fire. I have power and authority to lay hold and bind you and cast you into the abyss, Satan. Your days, Satan, are already numbered and you will be thrown into the bottomless pit so that you will not deceive the nations any more. Go down to the abyss Satan, your own place.

Reported you and noose
Pathetic.
Can not believe you guys hatred of your brother.
Wow.

This end times debate most always has the pretribs depicted as the devil sooner or later.

But ironically we see you,as does heaven.

 

[Absolutely]

Broski you always bring up revelation 14. This aint a salvation issue so lets not get too fired up here. IM JUST ASKING BRO

Where is the rapture in revelation 14? Is it the reaping? I think the chapter is vague at best and is most likely talking about the second coming, just like revelation 11:15 and revelation 16 is. Else we got like 4 different second comings in the book of revelation! I vote for NOT CHRONOLOGICAL and I believe i can prove it.

The second coming is Jesus on a white horse.
I dont need any changes on "Jesus on a cloud gathering ripe fruit"

FRUIT.

HARVEST

144K ARE FIRSTFRUITS.

I dont need any of that changed.

 

[Absolutely]

absolutely is a pre-tribber like you though. im surprised you dont agree on that

me i see revelation 14 as the second coming too. i see second coming many times also and its so easily to proof that the book of revelation is not chronological by just asking does babylon fall twice?

Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

clearly this is same event in rev 14 and 18. babylon falls, Jesus returns after it.

....and ignore the main substance of rev 14.

 

[Absolutely]

Do not forget, speculations, and presumptions, and conjectures. and cunningly devised fables, has nothing to do with the Word of God. The testimony of JESUS is the Spirit of prophecy. What prevails is the Word of God. The Word is God - God is a title - . It is written: 1John 5:v.7 - There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word(the Word made flesh), and the Holy Spirit: and these three are One.

Amen
Pretrib is easily defended. A babe in christ could do it.
......without the juvenile name calling garbage.

Go hate on the brethren in anotherer thread junior

 

[Absolutely]

The reaping and the sickle represent the divine judgment of the unbelieving and the wicked. Only those with a fantastic imagination will see the Rapture in Revelation 14, which is all about wrath.

Baloney.

Rev 14 starts with the 144k in heaven.

The REASON they are firstfruits is BECAUSE they are harvested FIRST.

So,the OTHER parts are NOT YET.

the RIPE FRUIT FOLLOWS.
RIPE fruit.....you need that (for some reason) to be a bad thing
Maybe a wild immagination?

 

[Absolutely]

And Abel and Cain are able to read what they wrote?

What convaluted point are you making?

 

[Noose]

Reported you and noose
Pathetic.
Can not believe you guys hatred of your brother.
Wow.

This end times debate most always has the pretribs depicted as the devil sooner or later.

But ironically we see you,as does heaven.

What did i do this time? i hope i haven't been sleep talking again.

I'm sorry for saying nothing at all.