Whispered
Repeats some familiar accusations against Reformed theology, namely
1. RT makes God out to be a monster
2. Jesus died only for His sheep
3. Total depravity bars men from truly embracing Christ
4. RT teaches double predestination
You imply I might not have read the Synod (Canons) of Dordt, in fact I have quoted
it several times in this thread, so yes, I have read it.
I would hope you did read it since you brought it up. I posted a link to the SoD for information purposes. This way those who may not have read it or known what it is up to this point have a resource to avail themselves of in this thread.
1. In making God out to be a monster that depends on your own personal view of God.
We can say with confidence that God is:
Holy (absolutely Holy with no shadow of turning)
Perfect in all His ways - in mercy, faithfulness, forgiveness and wrath, justice
Love (God is perfect love so much so He gave His only begotten son to save the world)
All powerful (Sovereign in ways we cannot fathom)
Ever present (even in Hell He is there) [/quote] Sheol, actually. The Book of Psalms chapter 139. Hell is not yet active.
Being perfect in wrath means He will punish the wicked. This does not make God a monster, but a Tyrant
but being a tyrant He is perfect in Love and Mercy something we cannot comprehend at times.
Fascinating. He's not made out to be a monster by RT doctrine, but rather a Tyrant instead who is perfect in love and mercy.
Going with the RT doctrine here, if that were true, perfect in love and mercy, why didn't RT's god show love and mercy by not planting the tree that Omniscience knew would be the instrument by which sin would enter the world He created and called good? Even having planted said tree in the middle of Eden.
If the RT God was perfect in love and mercy, why didn't He forgive the two first people He created who , even though they were created by Him in His image and likeness, did not possess knowledge of right and wrong, i.e. good and evil, so as to comprehend the commandment, the first command God issued, not to eat of the forbidden tree. Further, how can a forbidden tree be set in the middle of Eden by Eden's creator and said creator call all that He created good?
And all this
after, the god of Reformed Theology (RT), made a list of names of people whom He would save from something that had not yet come to exist; sin. Unless, the whole Fall was part of RT god's plan. Which it must have been, which means Eden and all creation wasn't good, because a damnable fruit was created by RT god and put smack dab in the middle of the garden where two naive people lived unaware that a serpent RT god let into the garden to tempt them to disobey, so that the list of saved names could have a reason to exist in the first place; damnation due to sin.
RT theology? Makes God the author , creator, of sin. And of course! Because the Bible tells us, in both Old and New Testaments, that without the law there is no sin. Because sin is transgression of God's law.
Have you read the Book of Isaiah 45?
2. Jesus died for all men, for the whole world. But most of the world reject Jesus so His shed blood
does not remove their sin, they lack fath so they bring condemnation down on their own heads,
it is not Jesus' fault they die in sin, it is their fault in rjecting such a saviour. So in efect Jesus
died only for His sheep.
Or, since we're talking about the tenets of RT here, RT's god created people to be Totally Depraved,so as to be incapable of , as we've read members insist is true when those members are Calvinist, Reformed Theology members adhering to any particular RT denomination, making a choice to understand the Bible and seek Jesus of their own accord.
When RT god created people to be totally immoral, depraved, incapable of understanding or seeking righteousness, is it the created people's fault they cannot seek Jesus?
And from among that number only those RT's god predetermined would be saved from their Totally Depraved state by His act of will that made them to be in His grace, and then made them to have faith, so that they would then believe and be saved. Is that the Totally Depraved people's fault? When they're not predestined for Salvation but are instead predestined by RT's god for damnation.
3. Total depravity bars men from believing, yes, this si the fallen state from Adam. Our federal head, Adam fell,
hence all creation fell into darkness. This total depravity is balanced by common grace and God providence
to all in His cretaion. This sin't dealt with in detail in the Cannons of Dordt, but if you look carefully there is
a breif reference to it as the 'light of Nature'. Men reject God because it is convenient for them to do so, they
have no interest in God as long as their belly is full and they can indulge their baser natures in pelasure. They
see clearly the beauty of God's creation, but prefer to move on in their pleasures much of them sinful acts of
self indulgence. They are base and wicked, Christ is held up in every church through the world yet they still
reject Him and His teachings of love. They inherited the sin of Adam and they lie there in sin, God has called them
graciously, that if they follow Him and love Him they will be rescued from that body of sin, but they refuse. So
God leaves them in that estate, it is His sovereign pleasure to do that, see Romans 9 posted earlier: Who are oyu
oh man to critisise God. God chooses to call who He will and to leave others where they are. It iHis soveriegn
will. God is willing that all should be saved, yet Jesus wept over Jerusalem, yet left them in their unbelief.
Who are we to judge God, who He calls, and who He passes by?
With due respect, you said you had read the Canons of Dort, just as an aside, Dort is short for the full title of , The Synod of Dortrecht .
Having said that: "....The Synod of Dortrecht was held in view of the serious disturbance in the Reformed Church by the rise and spread of Arminianism.Arminius, a theological professor at the University of Leyden,departed from the Reformed faith in his teaching concerning five important points.He taught conditional election on the ground of foreseen faith, universal atonement, partial depravity,resistible grace, and the possibility of a lapse from grace.These views were rejected by the Synod,and the opposite views were embodied in what is now called the Canons of Dort or the Five Articles Against the Remonstrants.In these Canons the Synod set forth the Reformed doctrine on these points, namely, unconditional election, limited atonement,
total depravity, irresistible grace,and the perseverance of the saints.
Each of the Canons consists of a positive and a negative part, the former being an exposition of the Reformed doctrine on the subject, and the latter a repudiation of the corresponding Arminian error.Although in form there are only four chapters, occasioned by the combination of the third and fourth heads of doctrine into one, we speak properly of five Canons, and the third chapter is always designated as Chapter III-IV.All office bearers of our Church are required to subscribe to these Canons as well as to the Confession of Faith and the Heidelberg Catechism. "
More reading/source
4. Double predestination is in event the state of things, as they are, as He has meant them to be. A dead man
cannot save himself, a dead dog cannot be revived not without supernatural power. Gopd chooses to elave
them as dead dogs, He calls them and even gives them grace, yet they choose to die in sin and even mock
hell, the place they will end up in.
Just a small point there. RT denies Totally Depraved people are capable of exercising free will/choice.
Ergo, per your metaphor, a dead man created as a corpse by a god cannot become animated unless said creator elects to animate said corpse. Said corpse cannot of its own accord choose to become filled with life when it was first created by a supernatural spiritual power to be a corpse.
Therefore, is it grace? That the creator of the corpse predetermined of the number of corpses it first created, that individual cadavers it would then animate to life for its own purposes and due to its
zeal for its own glory?
Is that grace? When those that power did not choose to bring to life will not only remain as a corpse but at the end of days will be burned eternally in a place that power created for the angels it created and that later betrayed its trust?
Thank you for treating this thread seriously.
Of course.
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