Cain's Offering

[Webers.Home]

.

And yes, Cain could have gone out to "contemplate the cosmos" rather than
turn from God in a fit of rage.

The primary purpose of the cosmos as per Psalm 19:1-4 is to defend
intelligent design and prove the existence of a supreme being. (cf. Rom
1:19-20.

Having already undergone a person-to-person encounter with God-- which
most people on Earth will never even once in their lifetimes experience --any
contemplation of the cosmos thereafter would've been redundant.
_

 

[John146]

But we CAN study original Greek and Hebrew words by going on Bible Hub and the Internet and looking at root meanings. The KJV is a translation. What was it translated from? There are many translations of the Bible but we cannot say that they are all okay because we are 'trusting that God has preserved His words for today.' He tells us to study to show ourselves approved, and also to seek the ancient paths and that the true worshippers will worship in spirit and in truth. Seeking out truth is more than reading the KJV. The translators were not perfect and this is why we have the indwelling Spirit of God in us who leads us into all truth. Bless His Holy Name. Amen.

Ultimately, this makes you the final authority of God’s word. You choose the right words which dictate truth.

 

[Webers.Home]

.
According to Eph 4:11-14, the Bible is meant to be learned by instruction,
i.e. taught by people enabled by God for that purpose.

● 1Cor 12:29 . . Are all teachers?

The answer to that is a great big NO.

Some years ago I was invited to a home Bible study. Before considering his
invitation; I asked the man if his group was led by a competent Bible
teacher. He said "No; we don't have a teacher. The group teaches itself. In
other words: we speak as the Spirit leads us to speak."

They say iron sharpeneth iron. But that doesn't work when both irons are
soft. That's why files are hardened and tempered. Well; that man's group
lacked a file, so to speak; so I declined.

BTW: The Bible's original documents no longer exist. What we have today are
assumed copies of the originals; and in some cases copies of previous copies.
_

 

[Butterflyyy]

.
According to Eph 4:11-14, the Bible is meant to be learned by instruction,
i.e. taught by people enabled by God for that purpose.

● 1Cor 12:29 . . Are all teachers?

The answer to that is a great big NO.

Some years ago I was invited to a home Bible study. Before considering his
invitation; I asked the man if his group was led by a competent Bible
teacher. He said "No; we don't have a teacher. The group teaches itself. In
other words: we speak as the Spirit leads us to speak."

They say iron sharpeneth iron. But that doesn't work when both irons are
soft. That's why files are hardened and tempered. Well; that man's group
lacked a file, so to speak; so I declined.

BTW: The Bible's original documents no longer exist. What we have today are
assumed copies of the originals; and in some cases copies of previous copies.
_

Yes we do have Bible teachers but it is written 'The Spirit will lead you into all truth'....
We are also instructed to seek the ancient paths and we CAN trust God to lead us into all truth and also to give us wisdom when we ask Him. God knows what is available to us and how accurate/inaccurate it is and it has been my experience that He has led me by His Spirit as I genuinely desire to know the truth. He is faithful. There are historical writings to prove the Bible is true as far as I am aware and if we seek we will find...truth.
And as regards the Bible Study you attended...could you not have been used to sharpen up other believers? Not all are teachers; however, iron does sharpen iron. The Holy Spirit is able to lead a meeting and minister to the Saints and also they are able to minister to one another without the presence of someone who has the specific gift of 'teacher'.

 

[Butterflyyy]

Ultimately, this makes you the final authority of God’s word. You choose the right words which dictate truth.

It makes my Lord and His Holy Spirit and His Word the final authority because of it doesn't line up with scripture (as accurate scripture as I can find) then I don't believe it🙂

 

[TLC209]

Yes we do have Bible teachers but it is written 'The Spirit will lead you into all truth'....
We are also instructed to seek the ancient paths and we CAN trust God to lead us into all truth and also to give us wisdom when we ask Him. God knows what is available to us and how accurate/inaccurate it is and it has been my experience that He has led me by His Spirit as I genuinely desire to know the truth. He is faithful. There are historical writings to prove the Bible is true as far as I am aware and if we seek we will find...truth.
And as regards the Bible Study you attended...could you not have been used to sharpen up other believers? Not all are teachers; however, iron does sharpen iron. The Holy Spirit is able to lead a meeting and minister to the Saints and also they are able to minister to one another without the presence of someone who has the specific gift of 'teacher'.

Im sure God would send His gifted teacher to the group one way or another if the body of believers are truly seeking God. I have the gift of teacher myself. And I agree with what youve said about staying in a group that has no leadership or "file" like the brother stated, in order to be used in that way. Thats my role as Christ has gifted me for. Its up to us to be obedient and faithful to be used.

That goes for any way God has gifted us. All of us in the body have a gift(s) and we are to use them for His glory. In the body we all serve a purpose, when each member is working to its potential the entire body benefits. Otherwise the body is less able to progress the way it should and was intended.

 

[John146]

as accurate scripture as I can find

Do you not trust the Lord’s ability to preserve His words into English or any other language, and that version be the holy, pure words of God? Can He do that?

 

[Ahwatukee]

Genesis 4: 1-7 (KJV)

1) And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord. 2) And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. 3) And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord. 4) And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 5) But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. 6) And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 7) If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Have three questions (for now) pertaining to this:

Why did God not have respect unto Cain and to his offering?

What sin was at the door, that Cain did not do well?

What did God mean when He said "and unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him"?

Do not see much to go on, unless it is explained later in scripture. Thanks in advance.

Good day 49
I'll answer the first one.

Abel's offering had to do with shed blood, where Cain's didn't.

Unless there is a shedding of blood there is no forgiveness for sins.

Abel's offering represents faith

Cain's offering represents his own works

 

[Butterflyyy]

Do you not trust the Lord’s ability to preserve His words into English or any other language, and that version be the holy, pure words of God? Can He do that?

So are you saying that the KJV is perfectly translated from the original language because God caused it to be??
I trust the Lord to lead me in all truth.
I trust that He caused His original Bible to be what He wanted it to be. I do not trust human effort to perfectly translate the original work and there is an abundance of evidence of this in many translations.

 

[49]

Good day 49
I'll answer the first one.

Abel's offering had to do with shed blood, where Cain's didn't.

Unless there is a shedding of blood there is no forgiveness for sins.

Abel's offering represents faith

Cain's offering represents his own works

Have learned a lot in this thread, and thank you as well!
Cain should have brought a blood offering then, had he been right with God and obedient?
As was stated in another post, it was not the beginning of that harvest season. Had it been, and Cain brought of the first fruits, it still would have been rejected?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Have learned a lot in this thread, and thank you as well!
Cain should have brought a blood offering then, had he been right with God and obedient?
As was stated in another post, it was not the beginning of that harvest season. Had it been, and Cain brought of the first fruits, it still would have been rejected?

What if Cain had brought a blood offering, but he did not have faith (God knows the heart and He discerns the thoughts and intents of the heart)?

Do you think God would have had respect to the offering?

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Can't just "go through the motions". Gotta come to God in faith with the whole heart ...

 

[John146]

So are you saying that the KJV is perfectly translated from the original language because God caused it to be??
I trust the Lord to lead me in all truth.
I trust that He caused His original Bible to be what He wanted it to be. I do not trust human effort to perfectly translate the original work and there is an abundance of evidence of this in many translations.

When the Holy Spirit leads you to correct a word, but someone else claims the Holy Spirit has led them not to correct it...who’s right? Man needs a standard to live by. God has commanded us to live by His word, and yet, He didn’t preserve it for us. How can we be held accountable for truth when we don’t have it? How can one trust the Savior the book speaks of, and yet doesn’t wholly trust the book?

 

[Butterflyyy]

When the Holy Spirit leads you to correct a word, but someone else claims the Holy Spirit has led them not to correct it...who’s right? Man needs a standard to live by. God has commanded us to live by His word, and yet, He didn’t preserve it for us. How can we be held accountable for truth when we don’t have it? How can one trust the Savior the book speaks of, and yet doesn’t wholly trust the book?

It is surely right to study and establish as accurately as possible what the Word of God is saying in the original languages it was written in because for example, Hebrew is a much more complex language than English. God's Word is truth and I'm sure you would agree that we want to use the version that is the most accurate translation from the original al language. I wholly trust the Book; I just seek the purest translation and do not depend on the work of other men alone. God Himself did not cause the original to be written in the English language.

 

[Guojing]

So are you saying that the KJV is perfectly translated from the original language because God caused it to be??
I trust the Lord to lead me in all truth.
I trust that He caused His original Bible to be what He wanted it to be. I do not trust human effort to perfectly translate the original work and there is an abundance of evidence of this in many translations.

You never heard of the story of how the dead sea scrolls were discovered in the 1950s, including the entire book of Isaiah and when they translated the ancient Hebrew, it almost 100% match the KJV?

 

[posthuman]

It does so presently with almost all Believers because their Faith is not placed and maintained exclusively in Christ and the Cross

why does Jimmy Swaggart basically call "almost all believers" unbelievers?

 

[posthuman]

You never heard of the story of how the dead sea scrolls were discovered in the 1950s, including the entire book of Isaiah and when they translated the ancient Hebrew, it almost 100% match the KJV?

that's not quite how it works.
the Hebrew in the scrolls matches the Masoretic Hebrew text of Isaiah.

of course you can take other sources and 'translate it' into Victorian English and say it matches the KJV. because a substantial part of translation is interpretive. you can take the Vietnamese version of Isaiah and translate it into olde English and bias it to match the KJV if you want. the result is meaningless with regard to the accuracy of this English translation.

the dead sea scrolls don't mean the anything about the KJV - the Masoretic text, which is ~ 800 years older than the dead sea Isaiah scroll, matches 95% identical, with 5% just being spelling differences and what are probably a few stray stylus marks. that means the people who copied the scroll found at the dead sea had been making accurate transcriptions.

 

[49]

What if Cain had brought a blood offering, but he did not have faith (God knows the heart and He discerns the thoughts and intents of the heart)?

Do you think God would have had respect to the offering?

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Can't just "go through the motions". Gotta come to God in faith with the whole heart ...

Amen!

 

[posthuman]

the dead sea scrolls don't mean the anything about the KJV - the Masoretic text, which is ~ 800 years older than the dead sea Isaiah scroll, matches 95% identical, with 5% just being spelling differences and what are probably a few stray stylus marks. that means the people who copied the scroll found at the dead sea had been making accurate transcriptions.

* whoops have that backward - dead sea scrolls is the older copy of Isaiah. but ya'll knew that

 

[posthuman]

Good day 49
I'll answer the first one.

Abel's offering had to do with shed blood, where Cain's didn't.

Unless there is a shedding of blood there is no forgiveness for sins.

Abel's offering represents faith

Cain's offering represents his own works

how do you know they were making an offering for forgiveness of their sin?

 

[posthuman]

As was stated in another post, it was not the beginning of that harvest season. Had it been, and Cain brought of the first fruits, it still would have been rejected?

i didn't see that post - how do we know whether it was harvest time or not?