Never met a "lemming" who thought they were wrong yet! 
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Which gospel?
- Thread starter RebuildJesussChurch
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You must have quite the number of mirrors in your house!
This post of yours brought to mind a quote I've put in other threads before...
pertaining to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (US; all those saved "in this present age [singular]")
[quoting a small excerpt]
"[...] yet not a syllable about the real position of the Church--its calling, its standing, its hopes, its privileges!
"And not a word about Israel's future! A complete ignoring, or at best a thorough alienation, of the promises made to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and David! The whole body of prophetic teaching subjected to a system of spiritualizing, falsely so called, whereby Israel is robbed of its proper portion [...]"
--C H Mackintosh
[end quoting]
This is what I see as a big problem; not grasping what Scripture itself tells us about "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [Eph1:20-23 WHEN] and its unique "calling," its "standing [/position]," its [unique] "HOPE," its "privileges" (and instead, blurs it together into "Israel's earthly things" which WE are not called to "set OUR minds on" per Col3 and Phil3! etc!)
For *US* Scripture states we are "SEALED unto the day of redemption" (that is, SEALED with the HS)... that being, the "redemption of the 'purchased-possession' [G4047]"!
pertaining to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (US; all those saved "in this present age [singular]")
[quoting a small excerpt]
"[...] yet not a syllable about the real position of the Church--its calling, its standing, its hopes, its privileges!
"And not a word about Israel's future! A complete ignoring, or at best a thorough alienation, of the promises made to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and David! The whole body of prophetic teaching subjected to a system of spiritualizing, falsely so called, whereby Israel is robbed of its proper portion [...]"
--C H Mackintosh
[end quoting]
This is what I see as a big problem; not grasping what Scripture itself tells us about "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [Eph1:20-23 WHEN] and its unique "calling," its "standing [/position]," its [unique] "HOPE," its "privileges" (and instead, blurs it together into "Israel's earthly things" which WE are not called to "set OUR minds on" per Col3 and Phil3! etc!)
For *US* Scripture states we are "SEALED unto the day of redemption" (that is, SEALED with the HS)... that being, the "redemption of the 'purchased-possession' [G4047]"!
Ezekiel 13
22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:
23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
“A god who is all love, all grace, all mercy, no sovereignty, no justice, no holiness, and no wrath is an idol.”
22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:
23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
“A god who is all love, all grace, all mercy, no sovereignty, no justice, no holiness, and no wrath is an idol.”
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I literally just stuck my finger in the Bible somewhere and found a more relevant passage than the Scripture you post. Are you ok?
Budding of Aaron’s Rod
17 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying: 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, and get from them a rod from each father’s house, all their leaders according to their fathers’ houses—twelve rods. Write each man’s name on his rod. 3 And you shall write Aaron’s name on the rod of Levi. For there shall be one rod for the head of each father’s house. 4 Then you shall place them in the tabernacle of meeting before the Testimony, where I meet with you. 5 And it shall be that the rod of the man whom I choose will blossom; thus I will rid Myself of the complaints of the children of Israel, which they make against you.”
Budding of Aaron’s Rod
17 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying: 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, and get from them a rod from each father’s house, all their leaders according to their fathers’ houses—twelve rods. Write each man’s name on his rod. 3 And you shall write Aaron’s name on the rod of Levi. For there shall be one rod for the head of each father’s house. 4 Then you shall place them in the tabernacle of meeting before the Testimony, where I meet with you. 5 And it shall be that the rod of the man whom I choose will blossom; thus I will rid Myself of the complaints of the children of Israel, which they make against you.”
They surely have no oil at Christ's return. But what it does not say is if they never had any oil. And as I say, I think the parable is carefully crafted that way because the same fate awaits the person who no longer has the oil of the Spirit as he who never had it. The fact he did not include 'never' in 'I don't know you' in this parable is telling.
And, yes, I split, then I come back, lol. I wish I could hang around longer, lol.
And, yes, I split, then I come back, lol. I wish I could hang around longer, lol.
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My post you're responding to applies whether or not they ever had the filling of the Spirit. Whether you cast away the teachings of the prophets and teachers and never get saved or turn away from them later, the outcome is the same.
Perhaps the empty flasks accompanying the unwise virgins represents the empty vessels of the false teachers who teach things that do not result in salvation, or continued salvation.
Perhaps the empty flasks accompanying the unwise virgins represents the empty vessels of the false teachers who teach things that do not result in salvation, or continued salvation.
Show me where it says categorically without doubt that these lamps that can't stay lit because they never had oil in them, or that they just ran out of oil. It says they have no oil in the vessels they took with them. It does not say they never had any oil in the lamps themselves.
I'm leaning heavy toward the empty vessels (not the lamps) being false prophets and teachers who have no life in them and can't fill their disciples with the Spirit of life, or sustain that life in them. Once saved always saved comes to mind. It says you can start out good but then fall away from Christ and they tell you you're still saved and still have the Spirit when you actually don't. And you arrive at the resurrection with out the oil of life and you are condemned.
I'm leaning heavy toward the empty vessels (not the lamps) being false prophets and teachers who have no life in them and can't fill their disciples with the Spirit of life, or sustain that life in them. Once saved always saved comes to mind. It says you can start out good but then fall away from Christ and they tell you you're still saved and still have the Spirit when you actually don't. And you arrive at the resurrection with out the oil of life and you are condemned.
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It says they had NO oil.
NOWHERE in the passage does it EVER say they had, or EVER had any oil. If you say it does, YOU are adding to the Word.
Interesting that you, and others, so DESPERATELY WANT them to have been saved at one point, and then to have lost the Holy Spirit, and Salvation.
You do NOT have to work for your Salvation OR to maintain your Salvation. JESUS did ALL the work. And He is HIGLY angry and disgusted by those who want to add to His FINISHED work.
NOWHERE in the passage does it EVER say they had, or EVER had any oil. If you say it does, YOU are adding to the Word.
Interesting that you, and others, so DESPERATELY WANT them to have been saved at one point, and then to have lost the Holy Spirit, and Salvation.
You do NOT have to work for your Salvation OR to maintain your Salvation. JESUS did ALL the work. And He is HIGLY angry and disgusted by those who want to add to His FINISHED work.
The verse says, "For the foolish, having taken their lamps, TOOK NO OIL WITH them." [/with the lamps (that they "took [/having TAKEN]"), it seems to read]
[either way, these are the "PLURAL Virgins" of the "wedding FEAST/SUPPER"... not the "Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" of "the MARRIAGE" itself--Yes, "the WISE" of this passage are SAVED... and enter the MK age (in their mortal bodies, upon His "RETURN" to the earth)]
[either way, these are the "PLURAL Virgins" of the "wedding FEAST/SUPPER"... not the "Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" of "the MARRIAGE" itself--Yes, "the WISE" of this passage are SAVED... and enter the MK age (in their mortal bodies, upon His "RETURN" to the earth)]
I myself lean heavily on them not believing in the severity of God. They, like the scribes and pharasee's that came before them, have been "cut off", and "live in the illusion/delusion" that God's goodness NEVER "falters!"
As long as they keep believing "the illusion!"
It is when people won't buy into it with them?
This is when the "name calling" and condescension begins.
But, beware dear poster! Of a "double standard", that resides within these walls.
There are "some" who are exempt, from being banned. To the point of making "those" who have not been granted "exemption?" So frustratingly angry, that they "await the slip", which they themselves are the cause of "with baited breath!"
Then "run to daddy", with a complaint, so as to get one "off their case", with a 1-way ticket outta town on the "ban-wagon!"
Which is why you see the "laughing icon" on many posts. (true story)
As long as they keep believing "the illusion!"
It is when people won't buy into it with them?
This is when the "name calling" and condescension begins.
But, beware dear poster! Of a "double standard", that resides within these walls.
There are "some" who are exempt, from being banned. To the point of making "those" who have not been granted "exemption?" So frustratingly angry, that they "await the slip", which they themselves are the cause of "with baited breath!"
Then "run to daddy", with a complaint, so as to get one "off their case", with a 1-way ticket outta town on the "ban-wagon!"
Which is why you see the "laughing icon" on many posts. (true story)
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The idea of the parable is to keep watch and be ready at all times; so you must consider the teaching in your interpretation of the lamps.
1. They were not foolish for carrying empty lamps, they were foolish for not preparing well, taking into account that the bride might delay.
2. All 10 virgins waited for sometime before falling asleep. I'm sure they were not waiting for the bride in the dark.
Then by midnight....
1. They were not foolish for carrying empty lamps, they were foolish for not preparing well, taking into account that the bride might delay.
2. All 10 virgins waited for sometime before falling asleep. I'm sure they were not waiting for the bride in the dark.
Then by midnight....
Okay, but when it comes to US ("the Church which is His body" [ALL those "saved" in "this present age [singular]"]), WE are said to be "SEALED with the Holy Spirit of promise" and "SEALED unto the day of redemption"... which reminds me of another post I made in recent months... What is your thought regarding the point I am making here, re: 1Th5:10,6 (and how the same Grk words are used in both verses in this chpt 5 context):
[quoting]
Notice in the following passage I'm always pointing out... see how verses 6 and 10 have the SAME GREEK WORDS [same 2 Grk words in vv.6 and 10!]
1 Thessalonians 5:6-11 -
6 So then we should not sleep [G2518 - katheudōmen] as the others, but we should watch [G1127 - grēgorōmen] and we should be sober.
7 For those sleeping, sleep by night; and those becoming drunk, get drunk by night.
8 But we being of the day should be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and the helmet, the hope of salvation,
9 because God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 the One having died for us, so that whether we might watch [G1127 - grēgorōmen] OR we might sleep [G2518 - katheudōmen], we may live together with [G4862 - syn - 'UNIONED-with'/'IDENTIFIED-with'] Him.
11 Therefore encourage one another and build up one another, just as also you are doing.
...note that THIS [Grk word for] "SLEEP" is an altogether distinct Grk word from the "sleep [G2837 - koimōmenōn / koimēthentas] of the PREVIOUS CHPT, in 1 Thessalonians 4:13,14,15 (speaking of "the DEAD in Christ" of v.16). 1Th5:6,10 is not speaking of being "asleep" in death, like the previous chpt is.
So this passage is saying [speaking TO/FOR/ABOUT "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"] that "whether we may watch, OR whether we may sleep"... which is distinct from what certain passages are stating in the Olivet Discourse, for example, and other related passages (like Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44,45-48 [also not a "Rapture" passage], etc).
The problem enters, when (in that, people often [also] do not distinguish certain other passages and so forth) they come to wrong conclusions regarding "salvation truths"... (this is often reflected in their conveying of, and what they hold as, their "end times views," whereas if we should be simply asking a person "are you a Christian?," they might respond with a [simple] "yes"... but you have no clue they think "works salvation" is obtaining that favor with God, or that they believe they must "endure unto the end" [taken out of context] in order to ultimately be saved, etc...
[and]
ALL of the following refer to "the DEAD [/asleep / having fallen asleep - G2837 - koimōmenōn / koimēthentas] in Christ" -
1Th4:13 - https://biblehub.com/text/1_thessalonians/4-13.htm
1Th4:14 - https://biblehub.com/text/1_thessalonians/4-14.htm
1Th4:15 - https://biblehub.com/text/1_thessalonians/4-15.htm
ALL of the following, use a DIFFERENT "sleep" word [G2518 - katheudōmen], that is NOT referring to "the DEAD in Christ [those of the Body who have physically died]" and should be understood within its context in relation to what verse 5 just conveyed (etc) -
1Th5:6 - https://biblehub.com/text/1_thessalonians/5-6.htm
1Th5:10 - https://biblehub.com/text/1_thessalonians/5-10.htm
[end quoting those posts]
The things differing are not the same.
[quoting]
Notice in the following passage I'm always pointing out... see how verses 6 and 10 have the SAME GREEK WORDS [same 2 Grk words in vv.6 and 10!]
1 Thessalonians 5:6-11 -
6 So then we should not sleep [G2518 - katheudōmen] as the others, but we should watch [G1127 - grēgorōmen] and we should be sober.
7 For those sleeping, sleep by night; and those becoming drunk, get drunk by night.
8 But we being of the day should be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and the helmet, the hope of salvation,
9 because God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 the One having died for us, so that whether we might watch [G1127 - grēgorōmen] OR we might sleep [G2518 - katheudōmen], we may live together with [G4862 - syn - 'UNIONED-with'/'IDENTIFIED-with'] Him.
11 Therefore encourage one another and build up one another, just as also you are doing.
...note that THIS [Grk word for] "SLEEP" is an altogether distinct Grk word from the "sleep [G2837 - koimōmenōn / koimēthentas] of the PREVIOUS CHPT, in 1 Thessalonians 4:13,14,15 (speaking of "the DEAD in Christ" of v.16). 1Th5:6,10 is not speaking of being "asleep" in death, like the previous chpt is.
So this passage is saying [speaking TO/FOR/ABOUT "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"] that "whether we may watch, OR whether we may sleep"... which is distinct from what certain passages are stating in the Olivet Discourse, for example, and other related passages (like Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44,45-48 [also not a "Rapture" passage], etc).
The problem enters, when (in that, people often [also] do not distinguish certain other passages and so forth) they come to wrong conclusions regarding "salvation truths"... (this is often reflected in their conveying of, and what they hold as, their "end times views," whereas if we should be simply asking a person "are you a Christian?," they might respond with a [simple] "yes"... but you have no clue they think "works salvation" is obtaining that favor with God, or that they believe they must "endure unto the end" [taken out of context] in order to ultimately be saved, etc...
[and]
ALL of the following refer to "the DEAD [/asleep / having fallen asleep - G2837 - koimōmenōn / koimēthentas] in Christ" -
1Th4:13 - https://biblehub.com/text/1_thessalonians/4-13.htm
1Th4:14 - https://biblehub.com/text/1_thessalonians/4-14.htm
1Th4:15 - https://biblehub.com/text/1_thessalonians/4-15.htm
ALL of the following, use a DIFFERENT "sleep" word [G2518 - katheudōmen], that is NOT referring to "the DEAD in Christ [those of the Body who have physically died]" and should be understood within its context in relation to what verse 5 just conveyed (etc) -
1Th5:6 - https://biblehub.com/text/1_thessalonians/5-6.htm
1Th5:10 - https://biblehub.com/text/1_thessalonians/5-10.htm
[end quoting those posts]
The things differing are not the same.
Yer free to speak yer mind, my friend.
As LONG as you agree with me!
Don't criticize "deluded land"
For "they" will shape one's destiny!
But, if you do?
You'll lose yer job, yer mind, and all the friends you knew.
They'll send the call, for their "boys in blue."
And, they'll find a way, to SILENCE you!"
BTW? These are also the ones who never in a million years, ever even considered themselves as being ones, that Jesus rejects!
They "pick at gnats?"
They "swallow camels!"
As LONG as you agree with me!
Don't criticize "deluded land"
For "they" will shape one's destiny!
But, if you do?
You'll lose yer job, yer mind, and all the friends you knew.
They'll send the call, for their "boys in blue."
And, they'll find a way, to SILENCE you!"
BTW? These are also the ones who never in a million years, ever even considered themselves as being ones, that Jesus rejects!
They "pick at gnats?"
They "swallow camels!"
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I myself lean heavily on them not believing in the severity of God. They, like the scribes and pharasee's that came before them, have been "cut off", and "live in the illusion/delusion" that God's goodness NEVER "falters!"
As long as they keep believing "the illusion!"
It is when people won't buy into it with them?
This is when the "name calling" and condescension begins.
But, beware dear poster! Of a "double standard", that resides within these walls.
There are "some" who are exempt, from being banned. To the point of making "those" who have not been granted "exemption?" So frustratingly angry, that they "await the slip", which they themselves are the cause of "with baited breath!"
Then "run to daddy", with a complaint, so as to get one "off their case", with a 1-way ticket outta town on the "ban-wagon!"
Which is why you see the "laughing icon" on many posts. (true story)
As long as they keep believing "the illusion!"
It is when people won't buy into it with them?
This is when the "name calling" and condescension begins.
But, beware dear poster! Of a "double standard", that resides within these walls.
There are "some" who are exempt, from being banned. To the point of making "those" who have not been granted "exemption?" So frustratingly angry, that they "await the slip", which they themselves are the cause of "with baited breath!"
Then "run to daddy", with a complaint, so as to get one "off their case", with a 1-way ticket outta town on the "ban-wagon!"
Which is why you see the "laughing icon" on many posts. (true story)
On top of that, I think we know the reason you are so shaky on Biblical issues. You don't even know if you are saved or not!
From YOUR profile:
When saved - NOT SO SURE I AM, but, "pressing on", to the "High Calling" of God, In Christ Jesus: My advocate, and Kinsmen Redeemer, Unto EYAH ASHER EYAH.
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"Hope" as used in the NT epistles is NOT an "IFFY" thing, but a "SURE/CERTAIN" thing (and a PARTICULAR "sure/certain" thing).
Thus, that phrase there that you are pulling out of the 1Th5 context, is one of the TEN (or so) ways [phrases / words] Paul uses when he speaks of/refers to "our Rapture" EVENT (in these 2 epistles to the Thessalonians):
[of the LIST of TEN mentions/referrals to this "EVENT" ("our Rapture"), in those two epistles]
--"[and for an helmet (i.e. "understand this")] the hope of salvation" (not a "wishful-thinking, hoping for a maybe-salvation, as we use the word "hope" in our modern-day language)
"salvation," as used in these two Thessalonians epistles, is an "eschatological salvation," per context.
Thus, that phrase there that you are pulling out of the 1Th5 context, is one of the TEN (or so) ways [phrases / words] Paul uses when he speaks of/refers to "our Rapture" EVENT (in these 2 epistles to the Thessalonians):
[of the LIST of TEN mentions/referrals to this "EVENT" ("our Rapture"), in those two epistles]
--"[and for an helmet (i.e. "understand this")] the hope of salvation" (not a "wishful-thinking, hoping for a maybe-salvation, as we use the word "hope" in our modern-day language)
"salvation," as used in these two Thessalonians epistles, is an "eschatological salvation," per context.
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