Fact Checking LBGTQ+

[Locoponydirtman]

actually, we are seeing the results of a fallen world

a world enmeshed in sin that contaminates everything in it

some are born hermaphrodite ... yet we cannot say God made them that way as He plainly did not

the choice we actually do have, is to believe God and CHOOSE to believe what He portrays as the truth and not as our willful emotional excuse rendering brains would provide

scientists without Jesus are certainly not going to portray the obvious

animals, while not morally responsible, are at the mercy of what sin has created

Jeremiah 12:4
How long will the land mourn and the grass of every field be withered? Because of the evil of its residents, the animals and birds have been swept away, for the people have said, "He cannot see what our end will be."

Romans 8
18I consider that our present sufferings are not comparable to the glory that will be revealed in us. 19The creation waits in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

22We know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until the present time. 23Not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved; but hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he can already see? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet see, we wait for it patiently.

26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know how we ought to pray, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groans too deep for words. 27And He who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

What I find ironic about the whole thing is that we don't accept animal behavior as an excuse for any other human violation of morality. Animals steel, and even kill, and rape. They do vile things completely unacceptable to human society. But we look to them in this one behavior to excuse it and normalize it.
If a person was eating lunch and another human walked up and beat that one up and took his food and ate it we would be outraged.
I was watching a documentary about dolphins and the expected mother leaves the pod to give birth, when she gave birth a " bachelor pod " happened by and killed the baby dolphin and raped the mother to death. According to the commentator this was a common occurrence, so mother dolphins had to be quick to get their young back to the pod. This is appalling behavior.
We can not accept animal behavior as a standard for human behavior. We would live in a horrific society .

 

[7seasrekeyed]

What I find ironic about the whole thing is that we don't accept animal behavior as an excuse for any other human violation of morality. Animals steel, and even kill, and rape. They do vile things completely unacceptable to human society. But we look to them in this one behavior to excuse it and normalize it.
If a person was eating lunch and another human walked up and beat that one up and took his food and ate it we would be outraged.
I was watching a documentary about dolphins and the expected mother leaves the pod to give birth, when she gave birth a " bachelor pod " happened by and killed the baby dolphin and raped the mother to death. According to the commentator this was a common occurrence, so mother dolphins had to be quick to get their young back to the pod. This is appalling behavior.
We can not accept animal behavior as a standard for human behavior. We would live in a horrific society .

I've seen sea life docus about dolphin behavior...kinda funny regarding their intelligence and the level of what we would call immoral behavior. sea slugs on the other hand do no such things. they are slugs after all

people are trying to coat check their way into heaven

 

[Dibby53]

What people always do when they are wrong is say what they didn't mean when it is perfectly clear what they meant. Changing the meaning to previous mistake doesn't make it all of a sudden correct. You clearly stated "hard wired". This is wrong with the evidence I have provided. Please don't try claim you meant something else or that I didn't understand what you meant. That sort of debating tactic is used all the time by politicians. Please admit the truth that no one is "hard wired" to be that way and do not try and say you meant something else or that I misunderstood you, no one misunderstood you. The article says many things influence same-sex, just look at how many things influence your desire for chocolate icecream rather than vanilla, and is definitely not "hard wired". This phrase would be properly used for the natural impulse for a baby to suck (eat) right after birth. There is nothing natural about homosexual relationships for if it their were, then if every single human were homosexual, humanity would go extinct. This is basic logic. One thing necessary leads to the other unless you introduce a heterosexual component to the equation. Logical is based off mathematics btw. Let us call the production of children X, heterosexual relationships Y, and homosexual relationships Z. Z cannot perform X without physical help from Y. A component of Y is the ova, which Z does not have. Z therefore cannot perform X, and therefore cannot be deemed anything natural Y displays. Unless we decide to call non-production and extinction natural, which, whether atheist or Christian, cannot be considered so.

The American Psychological Association states that "sexual orientation is not a choice that can be changed at will, and that sexual orientation is most likely the result of a complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and biological factors...is shaped at an early age...[and evidence suggests] biological, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's sexuality."

So, that is pretty hard wired to me. Your sexuality is determined by the brain. The brain structures and responses are in place at a very early age. But note, I do not say it is determined by a single gene. Women's sexuality appears more fluid than men's in the latest research. It is a complex area, for a few people do appear to have brains that allow them to be sexually fluid in that they can sexually prefer women or men. For the vast majority however this is not the case.

The American Psychiatric Association also say the same,on their site.

"There is nothing natural about homosexual relationships for if it their were, then if every single human were homosexual, humanity would go extinct. This is basic logic. "

Yet it occurs throughout different species of animals and occurs in all human cultures and periods of history. This would surely warrant a definition of natural, occuring in nature. Not every human being is homosexual, it is always a minority. So your logic doesn't stand. I don't see human extinction caused by homosexuality happening any time soon. In fact it could be that heterosexual procreation would cause our extinction through overpopulation!

 

[Dibby53]

There is evidence that behavior does cause structural changes in the brain and that behavior also controls the brain.

So when they state that it is not a choice, it may have become hard wired, but at some point it was a choice, since there is no evidence that homosexuality is hard wired into the brain prior to the behavior.

There is a truth to what you say. Learning to drive a car, for instance, will eventually get fixed in the brain.....then it is automatic. Sexuality is not like this. Whilst sexuality is certainly shaped by behaviour it would appear that the basic desires are fixed. If a heterosexual man has same sex experiences then that won't make him homosexual. As some straight, married men who went to an all boys boarding school will tell you.

 

[Dibby53]

I wanted to come back and make clear that I am not holding myself up as a perfect Christian. I have personal struggles and fight the inner man (woman) as much as anyone else. And the last thing I would ever want to do is to be a stumbling block to anyone seeking the Truth. By fundamentalist, may I ask was it non- denominational, if you don't mind sharing. Blessings.

Yes Kaylagrl,
I ended up in a non denominational situation. A Christian fellowship. Being homosexual myself ( sorry, but for me it really wasn't a choice. Certainly not a "preference") it was ultimately a deeply damaging experience. This was 35 years ago. Now I see things differently. I had a few experiences even while in the church that started me questioning. I,ve been questioning ever since.......one of the most painful, fruitful and fulfilling things I,ve done.

 

[Dibby53]

What I find ironic about the whole thing is that we don't accept animal behavior as an excuse for any other human violation of morality. Animals steel, and even kill, and rape. They do vile things completely unacceptable to human society. But we look to them in this one behavior to excuse it and normalize it.
If a person was eating lunch and another human walked up and beat that one up and took his food and ate it we would be outraged.
I was watching a documentary about dolphins and the expected mother leaves the pod to give birth, when she gave birth a " bachelor pod " happened by and killed the baby dolphin and raped the mother to death. According to the commentator this was a common occurrence, so mother dolphins had to be quick to get their young back to the pod. This is appalling behavior.
We can not accept animal behavior as a standard for human behavior. We would live in a horrific society .

Of course it would be terrible to go back. Evolution is pushing us forward. I believe God is evolving us into sonship and daughtership.....waiting to reveal his image in us. Jesus showed us what life could be like if that happens.

 

[kaylagrl]

Yes Kaylagrl,
I ended up in a non denominational situation. A Christian fellowship. Being homosexual myself ( sorry, but for me it really wasn't a choice. Certainly not a "preference") it was ultimately a deeply damaging experience. This was 35 years ago. Now I see things differently. I had a few experiences even while in the church that started me questioning. I,ve been questioning ever since.......one of the most painful, fruitful and fulfilling things I,ve done.

I'm sorry that happened to you. I hope you understand that church is full of imperfect people. That's not to make an excuse for what happened. But I was in the ministry for 20yrs and traveled to possibly a thousand plus churches and saw some horrible things going on. I could tell stories for hours. It's sad.

I'm not trying to be vulgar, and if it's too personal a question I understand if you don't wish to answer. But were you molested when you were younger? Again, if it is too personal a question, I do understand. Is there an age you learned that you were gay or did you always have a sense of feeling this way?

 

[EleventhHour]

The American Psychological Association states that "sexual orientation is not a choice that can be changed at will, and that sexual orientation is most likely the result of a complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and biological factors...is shaped at an early age...[and evidence suggests] biological, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's sexuality."

So, that is pretty hard wired to me. Your sexuality is determined by the brain. The brain structures and responses are in place at a very early age. But note, I do not say it is determined by a single gene. Women's sexuality appears more fluid than men's in the latest research. It is a complex area, for a few people do appear to have brains that allow them to be sexually fluid in that they can sexually prefer women or men. For the vast majority however this is not the case.

The American Psychiatric Association also say the same,on their site.

"There is nothing natural about homosexual relationships for if it their were, then if every single human were homosexual, humanity would go extinct. This is basic logic. "

Yet it occurs throughout different species of animals and occurs in all human cultures and periods of history. This would surely warrant a definition of natural, occuring in nature. Not every human being is homosexual, it is always a minority. So your logic doesn't stand. I don't see human extinction caused by homosexuality happening any time soon. In fact it could be that heterosexual procreation would cause our extinction through overpopulation!

APA is a highly politicized organization, therefore their information needs to be viewed as such.

"brain structure and responses are in place at an early age" what does that even mean?

And you completely circumvented the science that states brain structure changes with behavior

 

[Dibby53]

I'm sorry that happened to you. I hope you understand that church is full of imperfect people. That's not to make an excuse for what happened. But I was in the ministry for 20yrs and traveled to possibly a thousand plus churches and saw some horrible things going on. I could tell stories for hours. It's sad.

I'm not trying to be vulgar, and if it's too personal a question I understand if you don't wish to answer. But were you molested when you were younger? Again, if it is too personal a question, I do understand. Is there an age you learned that you were gay or did you always have a sense of feeling this way?

No. I was not molested.
There was never a particular age. But I was aware from a very early age. It was like a growing awareness. I was simply not attracted to what the other lads at school were attracted to. So I have always felt this way. It was very strange hearing about the "gay agenda" or "lifestyle choices" in Christian circles ( normally always with evangelical or charismatic type of Christian ). It kind of made it seem like I was choosing a new set of clothes or something. I even had someone in my fellowship saying that all gays should be put to death! I thought, Hmm if only you knew. So it really is not a choice....I should know....I tried desperately to get rid of it during those days.

I too saw horrible things in churches and fellowships: arguments about the role of women, judgements of other christians, self righteousness, emotional abuse, the demonisation of opponents, legalism. So really, what has gone wrong? I never saw that depth of pathology in my local Anglican ( Episcopal) church, which is where I started going in the first place. So maybe I should have stayed there lol.

However, I wouldn't change it as I have learnt so much.

 

[Dibby53]

APA is a highly politicized organization, therefore their information needs to be viewed as such.

"brain structure and responses are in place at an early age" what does that even mean?

And you completely circumvented the science that states brain structure changes with behavior

Brain neurons wire and rewire in response to learning. But there are deep structures that won't. For instance if you are female you cannot turn yourself into a man by learning typical male behaviours. This is where the whole post modern gender identity movement gets in a spin. They think that gender is a social construct. It is not.
Sexuality, for the vast majority is like this. If you are heterosexual you can't make yourself homosexual and vice versa. There are of course bisexuals who can go for either.....but thats just being greedy!

As to the politics, or otherwise, of the American Psychological Association you would need to take that up with them.

Either way, the research is ongoing on the fine detail. What they are not doing is using a religious creation narrative and trying to shoe horn everyone into a sexual identity box .

 

[kaylagrl]

No. I was not molested.
There was never a particular age. But I was aware from a very early age. It was like a growing awareness. I was simply not attracted to what the other lads at school were attracted to. So I have always felt this way. It was very strange hearing about the "gay agenda" or "lifestyle choices" in Christian circles ( normally always with evangelical or charismatic type of Christian ). It kind of made it seem like I was choosing a new set of clothes or something. I even had someone in my fellowship saying that all gays should be put to death! I thought, Hmm if only you knew. So it really is not a choice....I should know....I tried desperately to get rid of it during those days.

I too saw horrible things in churches and fellowships: arguments about the role of women, judgements of other christians, self righteousness, emotional abuse, the demonisation of opponents, legalism. So really, what has gone wrong? I never saw that depth of pathology in my local Anglican ( Episcopal) church, which is where I started going in the first place. So maybe I should have stayed there lol.

However, I wouldn't change it as I have learnt so much.

I'd like to discuss further, but right now I'm doing the Christmas baking. Ugh. Been two with the flu two weeks now and trying to shop, decorate two homes for Christmas and now baking. So I'll get back to you if you don't mind to keep talking.

 

[Dibby53]

I'd like to discuss further, but right now I'm doing the Christmas baking. Ugh. Been two with the flu two weeks now and trying to shop, decorate two homes for Christmas and now baking. So I'll get back to you if you don't mind to keep talking.

Sure. Poor you. I had my flu jab so hopefully will be ok this year. Enjoy your baking. I,m off to jazz at my local pub later.
Xx

 

[Lightskin]

I cannot say how many times I have heard a member of the LBGTQ+ community, who we love as fellow people made in the image of God, make the comment that they were "born gay" or just "born that way". Geneticists have found that this truth about being born gay does not exist. According to the National Institutes of Health and the New York times https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22720828/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/08/29/science/gay-gene-sex.amp.html

True story: I know three guys from different walks of life who don’t know one another. They look incredibly alike and have the same personalities. Yep, you guessed it, they’re all gay.

 

[Lightskin]

Another true story: I was three years old and walked into my sister’s room. She was playing with her Barbie doll and at one point took Barbie’s shirt off. I knew right then and there I liked women. I’m glad my sister wasn’t playing with Ken. Just saying. 😎

 

[TabinRivCA]

No. I was not molested.
There was never a particular age. But I was aware from a very early age. It was like a growing awareness. I was simply not attracted to what the other lads at school were attracted to. So I have always felt this way. It was very strange hearing about the "gay agenda" or "lifestyle choices" in Christian circles ( normally always with evangelical or charismatic type of Christian ). It kind of made it seem like I was choosing a new set of clothes or something. I even had someone in my fellowship saying that all gays should be put to death! I thought, Hmm if only you God makes knew. So it really is not a choice....I should know....I tried desperately to get rid of it during those days.

I too saw horrible things in churches and fellowships: arguments about the role of women, judgements of other christians, self righteousness, emotional abuse, the demonisation of opponents, legalism. So really, what has gone wrong? I never saw that depth of pathology in my local Anglican ( Episcopal) church, which is where I started going in the first place. So maybe I should have stayed there lol.

However, I wouldn't change it as I have learnt so much.

There are many who have gay tendencies but their dedication to the Lord made them either remain single or get married. It's probably like when we are told as children to acquire tastes for the healthy foods we think we don't like(okra was a challenge for me). Parents here should spot this and start early with Christian values and prayers. I'm not saying you aren't dedicated to the Lord, but we all are being refined by His fire.
An elderly Christian couple lived next door to a gay couple. The couple showed them hospitality and kindness. The gay couple both decided to 'change their minds' after seeing the real love of Christ and got married to the opposite sex. We all must rid ourselves of giving into temptation and have the main goal of pleasing the Lord.
We all have faults but with God we can renew our minds and have 'the mind of Christ'. God bless.

 

[calibob]

Another true story: I was three years old and walked into my sister’s room. She was playing with her Barbie doll and at one point took Barbie’s shirt off. I knew right then and there I liked women. I’m glad my sister wasn’t playing with Ken. Just saying. 😎

Wouldn't you have replaced their arms & legs so there bodies were upside down? A boy I knew got beaten up for having a GI Joe, because boys aren't supposed to play with dolls.

Unless we're shooting them with BB guns or make a flame thrower out of a can of something like WD40 to torch them with. Back in the days of war movies, westerns and police vs gangster shows. 7 nights a week.

 

[calibob]

We need more John Wayne and Dirty Hairy, less Adventure Time or Rick and Morty. Boys should wear pants to school and Girls should wear dresses.

 

[EleventhHour]

Brain neurons wire and rewire in response to learning. But there are deep structures that won't. For instance if you are female you cannot turn yourself into a man by learning typical male behaviours. This is where the whole post modern gender identity movement gets in a spin. They think that gender is a social construct. It is not.
Sexuality, for the vast majority is like this. If you are heterosexual you can't make yourself homosexual and vice versa. There are of course bisexuals who can go for either.....but thats just being greedy!

As to the politics, or otherwise, of the American Psychological Association you would need to take that up with them.

Either way, the research is ongoing on the fine detail. What they are not doing is using a religious creation narrative and trying to shoe horn everyone into a sexual identity box .

Brain structure does change as well as biochemical changes, I have it on good authority, a neuroscientist as a matter of fact.

Believe as you will.

 

[calibob]

Actually I would have no problem with someone that admits to having a gay sexual preference, taking a vow of celibacy. If they can't help what they are what's wrong with stopping what they prefer to do? The men of Sodom were far worse than homos. They were gang rapists.

 

[calibob]

Galatians 5:17
For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other…
Parallel Verse;
KJV: For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.