Which gospel?

PennEd · Dec 1, 2019

38. There is now therefore no condemnation for the believer.

Romans 8:1: “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”

39. The believer is sealed by the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 1:13: “In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.”

40. The believer is sealed for a definite time, the day of redemption, or the resurrection of the body.

Ephesians 4:30: “And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.”

41. The believer liveth and abideth forever.

1 Peter 1:23: “Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever.”

42. The believer is dead to sin.

Romans 6:2: “God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?”

43. The believer will appear with Christ in glory.

Colossians 3:4: “When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.”

44. The life of the believer is Christ’s life.

Colossians 3:4: “When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.”

45. Since Christ cannot die again, the believer is eternally secure.

Romans 6:9-10: “Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.”

46. The believer is saved through faith not by works.

Ephesians 2:8-9: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

47. This faith a gift from God.

Romans 6:23: “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”

Ephesians 2:8-9: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

48. The believer is not saved by what he does, but by what Christ has done for him.

Titus 3:5: “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.”

Romans 4:5: “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.”

49. Salvation is a gift, not a wage.

Romans 6:23: “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

50. The believer’s hope is a living hope.

1 Peter 1:3: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.”

51. The believer’s hope will not fade away. Will not grow dim.

1 Peter 1:4-5: “To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”

52. The believer’s hope is reserved (set aside) in heaven for him.

1 Peter 1:4: “To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you.”

53. The believer’s inheritance is incorruptible.

1 Peter 1:4: “To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you.”

54. The believer’s inheritance cannot be defiled.

1 Peter 1:4: “To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away reserved in heaven for you.”

55. The believer is kept through faith.

1 Peter 1:4-5: (See reasons number 36 and 37): “to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”

56. The believer to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:5: “Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”

The believer is more than conqueror through Christ.

Romans 8:37: “Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.”

57. The believer justified by faith, to be saved from wrath.

Romans 5:9: “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.”

58. Nothing can separate the believer from Christ.

Romans 8:38-39: “For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

59. Christ will complete salvation until the end.

Philippians 1:6: “Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.”

60. The believer to be preserved spirit, soul, and body.

1 Thessalonians 5:23: “And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

61. God cannot lie.

Titus 1:2: “In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.”

62. Jesus is able to save unto the uttermost.

Hebrews 7:25: “Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.”

63. The believer is born of incorruptible seed.

1 Peter 1:23: “Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever.” Can the devil corrupt that which God says is incorruptible?

64. The believer is perfected forever.

Hebrews 10:14: “For by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified.”

65. The believer believes unto the saving of his soul.

Hebrews 10:38-39: “Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.”

66. The believer made righteous through Christ’s obedience.

Romans 5:18-19: “Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”

67. Because all things work together for good to the believer.

Romans 8:28: “And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.”

68. Because the believer is so helpless that he cannot place his sins upon Christ. God must do it for him. Therefore salvation is by grace.

Isaiah 53:6: “All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.”

69. Because Christ did not come to help us, but to save us.

Luke 19:10: “For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.”

70. Because God, not being a man, cannot lie.

Numbers 23:19: “God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?”

PennEd · Dec 1, 2019

71. Because His mercy endureth forever.

Psalm 136: Twenty-six times in this Psalm it is written His mercy endureth forever.”

72. Because the believer has not yet borne the image of the heavenly.

1 Corinthians 15:49: “And as we have borne the image of the earthly, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.”

73. Because the believer is preserved unto the heavenly kingdom.

2 Timothy 4:18: “And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory forever and ever.”

74. Because the believer is the object of God’s mercy, not His wrath.

Ephesians 2:4: “But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us.”

John 3:36: “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

1 Thessalonians 5:9-10: “For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.”

75. Because a sealed and witnessed transaction is final.

Ephesians 1:13: “In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.” Sealed by the Spirit.

Hebrews 10:15: “Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us.”

76. Salvation is obtained, not attained.

Hebrews 9:12: “Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.”

77. Because the believer is a new creation. Created in Christ Jesus. Therefore eternal in righteousness.

Ephesians 4:24: “And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”

78. Because the Father reckons the sinner:

Romans 6:3-5: “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.”

Ephesians 2:4-6: “But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved); And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.”

79. Because all believers will be changed at Christ’s coming.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52: “Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”

80. Because of the “MUST” of 1 Corinthians 15:53.

1 Corinthians 15:23: “For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.”

81. Because the power of God is not limited.

Matthew 28:18-19: “And Jesus came and spake to them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.”

1 Peter 1:5: “Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”

82. Because the saints are preserved forever.

Psalms 37:28: “For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved forever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.”

83. Because nothing can separate us from the love of Christ.

Romans 8:35: “Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?”

The answer NO” is demanded by the passage to the question.

84. Because God will not forget the believer.

Isaiah 49:15: “Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet I will not forget thee.”

85. Because the new covenant in His blood, is an everlasting covenant.

Jeremiah 32:40: “And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.”

86. Because the believer has ceased from his own works.

Hebrews 4:10: “For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.” It is God that works in the believer.

87. Because we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:10: “By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”

88. Because the believer has already been redeemed (Past tense).

2 Peter 1:18-19: “Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.”

89. Because the believer’s salvation is begun and finished by Christ.

Hebrews 12:2: “Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.”

90. Because salvation is by grace, and not by any mixture of grace and works.

Romans 11:6: “And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.”

91. Because Christ died. rose again, and intercedes for born again believers.

Romans 8:37: “Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”

Hebrews 7:25: “Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.”

92. Because God predestined believers in His Truth according to His foreknowledge before the foundation of the world to be conformed to the image of his Son, and then, in time, He calls and justifies us, and finally He will glorify us.

Romans 8:29-30: “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.”

Ephesians 1:5, 7, 11, 13: "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will ... In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace ... In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: ... In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation ..."

2 Corinthians 2:13: "... God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth."

93. Because salvation IS salvation.

Hebrews 5:9: "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec."

Hebrews 7:25: "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them."

94. The believer cannot perish.

John 3:16: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

95. Because God’s promise that through the offering of Christ He will put away the believer’s sins, and will remember them no more.

Hebrews 10:17: “And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.”

96. Because God is for us!

Romans 8:31: "What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?"

97. God chastens His children rather than exiling them to Hell.

1 Corinthians 11:31-32: "For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world."

98. God allows His children to suffer loss of rewards in Heaven rather than exiling them to Hell.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15: "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

99. God allows His children to suffer shame at His coming rather than exiling them to Hell.

1 John 2:28: "And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming."

100. Because God is greater than our heart.

1 John 3:20: "For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things."

101. God is able to save and keep us.

2 Timothy 1:12: "... I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day."

Jude 1:24: "Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen."

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 1, 2019

stillness said:

Of course we can "apply" Scripture to ourselves/our lives.

But we must understand it (any given text) rightly, or else it is to no profit for us (and others); and is very often detrimental!

The passage he was pointing to (in his particular phrase, quoting that portion of a verse, there in his post) is NOT a "lose-your-salvation/forfeit-your-salvation" verse (or context); it is, instead, saying, that the gospel Paul was tasked with "preaching" includes the VITAL ASPECT of "His [/Jesus'] Resurrection" [vv.3-4] and that [v.13] "if there be no resurrection" [as some were saying, v.12], "[v.13] then Christ is not risen: [v.14] And if Christ be not risen, then our preaching is in vain, and your faith is also vain" and that "[v.17] if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins."

Paul, in verse 2, is speaking on THIS ^ SUBJECT (keep in mind that in the Corinthians epistles, Paul is vindicating his apostleship [ppl wanting to "follow OTHER more ELOQUENT-SPEAKING LOFTY DUDES" instead of who GOD had chosen to be apostle (Paul!)]), so Paul is introducing this Subject in the first cpl verses by saying, "...I declare unto you the gospel which *I* preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; BY WHICH also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what *I* have preached unto you [i.e. the VITAL TRUTH which *INCLUDES* Jesus' RESURRECTION, which [by contrast] OTHERS were saying "there *IS NO RESURRECTION*"]... and it is under THIS context/setting that Paul goes on to say, "UNLESS *YOU* HAVE believed in vain" (meaning, like those saying "THERE IS NO RESURRECTION"... the ppl he's cautioning them NOT TO FOLLOW instead of him-as-God's-chosen-apostle--bringing-the-TRUTH). It's easy to get this passage twisted around to somehow be a "lose-your-salvation" warning (it's not that AT ALL!), when instead it is a "don't-listen-to-false-teachers-bringing-falsehoods [and-disregarding-Jesus'-RESURRECTION (*VITAL TRUTH* for our salvation!!!)]" passage instead!

We must learn to be "correctly apportioning the word of truth" (so as to "understand it correctly" first) before we can then APPLY it APPROPRIATELY instead of in WHOLLY FALSE WAYS.

Noose · Dec 1, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

1. In Christ, there's no gentile or Jew, all are the same and salvation of man is just one, there's no salvation for Jews and another for gentiles.

2. You like talking about end times but you are not keen; we are in the end times, we have been for more than 2 millennia now.

What time was this angel (below) talking about?

Rev 14:
9A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” 12This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.

13Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.”

Are these things yet in the future or did they begin as soon as the angel said those words to John and we are still in them and we have been in the them since that time?

Noose · Dec 1, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

They had initially believed in resurrection. Paul said, they had believed in the gospel but believing in vain is actually failing to hold on.

1 Cor 15:1Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

Paul is reminding them of the gospel he had already preached, i'm sure it was the right gospel they received and believed at first but then lost it somehow.

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 2, 2019

Noose said:

You mean, the "plural [/corporate] YOU" (of the text); meaning, ALL those on the receiving end of this Corinthians epistle?? that they believed it at first and then all of them "lost it somehow"?? (because they "failed to hold on"?)

And you mean that Paul somehow anticipated (in his all-knowing-ness) that, from the time they started reading [/hearing be read] the BEGINNING words of this epistle, to the time they got to THIS section of the letter, that they would have certainly "lost it" by then??, because the INTRO to this letter to them [the "plural [/corporate] YOU" of this text] said to (and OF) them,

"2 To the church of God being in Corinth, having been sanctified in Christ Jesus, called holy, together with all those in every place calling on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both theirs and ours:

"3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

"4 I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God having been given you in Christ Jesus, 5 that in everything you have been enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge, 6 as the testimony about Christ was confirmed in you, 7 so as for you not to be lacking in any gift as you eagerly await the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 8 who also will sustain you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 God is faithful, by whom you were called into fellowship with His Son Jesus Christ our Lord."

[...some 14-15 chpts later, they supposedly turned from what they were at the beginning of this reading-session (1-hr max??), to somehow now having "lost it" and they no longer "hold" to whatever you think the Subject of chpt 15:1-20 is (instead of what I was pointing out the Subject is...), and God is somehow "no longer faithful" and Jesus is somehow suddenly "no longer sustaining them to the end..." to be "in the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ"... all because they couldn't "hold" it through that "hour-long reading-session" of the letter to them... Okay. Perfect sense. (Not)]

Noose · Dec 2, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

1 Cor 15:1Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

1. Paul had already preached to them the gospel
2. They had received the gospel and believed it
3. Paul is urging them to hold on (perseverance) because salvation will come only if they hold on; if they let go, then they have believed in vain.

Paul is writing to them after getting news that they are straying away from what he preached (probably) about resurrection (and many other things). When Paul is saying 'believing vain' he doesn't mean that they had started believing a wrong gospel from the onset but rather they believed in the true gospel at first, but forgot about it when they started listening to deceiving spirits.

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 2, 2019

Noose said:

I would say that we are in (and have been in) the last days (of which, there are THREE [total]... "after two days" and "in the third day" [which the latter of these two phrases is the equivalent of "the 7th Millennium/"Rest"/sabbatismos of Heb4:9, i.e the 1000-yr MK age following His "RETURN" to the earth])

To understand "the time" (what time-frame) this passage is speaking of (and I must be brief, as it is getting late here), one should look at the repeated phrase in the context, that phrase being "the beast" (with "7 heads, 10 horns"... because this is the SAME one which had been referred to in 13:1,5-7[12b], and described this way; note that "the beast [out-from the sea; v.1]" is both a "governmental-type entity" AND "an individual [man]" (the "MOUTH" aspect [vv.5-7 (parallel Dan7:20-21,25)] is what represents "the spokesperson/INDIVIDUAL/man" aspect [described also in Dan7:20c I just mentioned]).

So, in view of that ^ , we see also that Rev17:8 says of this "beast" (recall, BOTH a "governmental-type-entity" AND "an individual [man]"), that regarding the former of these two aspects (in the parenthesis), that "the beast that WAS, and IS NOT [at the time of John's writing], and YET SHALL BE [FUTURE TENSE]." This means (along with other considerations which I don't have time to go into at the moment), that until that "FUTURE TENSE" aspect comes into play, that it remains yet to exist on the earth (meaning, the time period spoken of in your passage has not yet existed on the earth).

I like how the ylt puts it, for I do believe it gives the sense, intended:

"...who are bowing before the beast and his image, also if any doth receive the mark of his name. 12 Here is endurance of the saints: here [are] those keeping the commands of God, and the faith of Jesus.’

"13 And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, ‘Write: Happy are the dead who in the Lord are dying from this time!’ ‘Yes, (saith the Spirit,) That they may rest from their labours — and their works do follow them!’"

So, the "who are dying from this time" (means, the "time" in which "the beast" WILL [FUTURE] also be existing on the earth... NOT from the time which in 17:8 [parallel to "the beast" and its existence on the earth (FUTURE)], was, at the time of John, said to be -->"IS NOT [at that time, then present (as of John's writing)], and yet shall be [future tense]"

Make sense?

[answ: when 1260 days are remaining until Christ's 2nd Coming to the earth; and following the SEALS and the first 5 Trumpets (for those cover the first half of the future 7-yr trib)]

Noose · Dec 2, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

I would say that we are in (and have been in) the last days (of which, there are THREE [total]... "after two days" and "in the third day" [which the latter of these two phrases is the equivalent of "the 7th Millennium/"Rest"/sabbatismos of Heb4:9, i.e the 1000-yr MK age following His "RETURN" to the earth])

To understand "the time" (what time-frame) this passage is speaking of (and I must be brief, as it is getting late here), one should look at the repeated phrase in the context, that phrase being "the beast" (with "7 heads, 10 horns"... because this is the SAME one which had been referred to in 13:1,5-7[12b], and described this way; note that "the beast [out-from the sea; v.1]" is both a "governmental-type entity" AND "an individual [man]" (the "MOUTH" aspect [vv.5-7 (parallel Dan7:20-21,25)] is what represents "the spokesperson/INDIVIDUAL/man" aspect [described also in Dan7:20c I just mentioned]).

So, in view of that ^ , we see also that Rev17:8 says of this "beast" (recall, BOTH a "governmental-type-entity" AND "an individual [man]"), that regarding the former of these two aspects (in the parenthesis), that "the beast that WAS, and IS NOT [at the time of John's writing], and YET SHALL BE [FUTURE TENSE]." This means (along with other considerations which I don't have time to go into at the moment), that until that "FUTURE TENSE" aspect comes into play, that it remains yet to exist on the earth (meaning, the time period spoken of in your passage has not yet existed on the earth).

I like how the ylt puts it, for I do believe it gives the sense, intended:

"...who are bowing before the beast and his image, also if any doth receive the mark of his name. 12 Here is endurance of the saints: here [are] those keeping the commands of God, and the faith of Jesus.’

"13 And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, ‘Write: Happy are the dead who in the Lord are dying from this time!’ ‘Yes, (saith the Spirit,) That they may rest from their labours — and their works do follow them!’"

So, the "who are dying from this time" (means, the "time" in which "the beast" WILL [FUTURE] also be existing on the earth... NOT from the time which in 17:8 [parallel to "the beast" and its existence on the earth (FUTURE)], was, at the time of John, said to be -->"IS NOT [at that time, then present (as of John's writing)], and yet shall be [future tense]"

Make sense?

[answ: when 1260 days are remaining until Christ's 2nd Coming to the earth; and following the SEALS and the first 5 Trumpets (for those cover the first half of the future 7-yr trib)]

I believe angels know how to express themselves in a clear way using human languages.

'from now on'/from this moment on/ from this time onward - these phrases mean one and only one thing, from this moment on, which means from the moment John penned those very words because John was instructed to write them down real time.

There's another phrase that can be used to mean future, 'from that moment onward'/from that time onward/

And, it is said that the people that die in Christ from that moment onward are blessed, so how is it not the church era? How is this yet future? are those who die in christ now not blessed?

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 2, 2019

Noose said:

"from THIS moment on"

"from this moment [having-just-been-described-in-the-passage; the time-slot-(and-"on")-involving-the-beast-and-those-living/existing-on-the-earth-AT-THAT-(future)-TIME] on"

THAT one ^

Again,

"...who are bowing before the beast and his image, also if any doth receive the mark of his name. 12 Here is endurance of the saints: here [are] those keeping the commands of God, and the faith of Jesus.’

"13 And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, ‘Write: Happy[/Blessed] are the dead who in the Lord are dying from this time [meaning, from this time ONWARD... / "ON" / "from now on"]!’ ‘Yes, (saith the Spirit,) That they may rest from their labours — and their works do follow them!’"

RebuildJesussChurch · Dec 2, 2019

Noose said:

They had initially believed in resurrection. Paul said, they had believed in the gospel but believing in vain is actually failing to hold on.

1 Cor 15:1Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

Paul is reminding them of the gospel he had already preached, i'm sure it was the right gospel they received and believed at first but then lost it somehow.

That is true.

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 2, 2019

^ EDIT to add to my last post:

John wrote Revelation in [around] 95ad (well after Jesus had ascended in 32ad).

Were the saints who died within those 60-some years leading up to the 95ad writing, somehow not "blessed"? and only those who died "from this moment [in 95ad and onward]" blessed?? Odd.

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 2, 2019

^ It seriously is problematic to disregard the "chronology" and "timing issues" God has so abundantly and painstakingly [so to speak] provided throughout His Word.

eternally-gratefull · Dec 2, 2019

RebuildJesussChurch said:

You didn't deal with what I said and yet you were still able to be condescending. Christlike. What I said was:

"Romans 11 means just what it sounds like it means when you read it. 1 Cor. 10 means just what it says. The 5 warnings in Hebrews to Spirit baptized believers mean just what it sounds like they mean. Ananias and Saphira. The 7 churches of Revelation. The branches that get cut off from the Vine. When Scripture says we can believe in vain, the 40 Biblical examples I gave in my video of people who are saved but lose their salvation. Who needs a scholar or a commentary if the Holy Spirit is present: "His annointing teaches you about all things." Not books. "He will guide you in to all truth."

What power do you have? The glory of God? Tell us about it. He brought you out of wickedness into a life of righteousness? Tell us about it. Are you the head of your wife as Christ is the Head of the church? Then boast in what God has done in her, making her beautiful without being frightened by any fear. By the grace of God I happen to know the Scriptures AND the power of God. I'll not boast as Paul did, but if you like I will. My original testimony is likely enough boasting in what Christ has done in me.

Did you get your breakfast today by the Spirit in faith, or did you get it by your soul? Was it because it was what you wanted, thought and felt or were you able to do it to the glory of God because Christ Jesus was your Head in that act? Do you deny your soul, having lost your own life as a disciple of Jesus Christ or have you held on to your life?

Seriously. The Kingdom of God does not consist in all these words. It consists in power. Here, you and me; let's become like little children and just obey God and follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy.

Neither of us can afford to resist the Holy Spirit. Give glory to God. Tell us what He has done."

You have an unhealthy desire to quibble where you think you might be able to. Answer the above.

You can’t prove you understand Col 2. How can anyone trust you understand romans 11 And other passages

you love to stick to passages you THINK support you, yet when questioned, you ignore the responses and questions and keep pushing.

your your own worse enemy

you need to prove you understand scripture before you tell people they are wrong.

Noose · Dec 2, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

You are trying to interpret scriptures based on your own understanding. Your understanding is that the beast is yet to come in the future so all that is written is yet future.

You are wrong. If it is yet future then we are still under the old covenant and those that die in Christ even today are not blessed.

Rev 14:13

New International Version
Then I heard a voice from heaven say, "Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on." "Yes," says the Spirit, "they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them."

New Living Translation
And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this down: Blessed are those who die in the Lord from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, they are blessed indeed, for they will rest from their hard work; for their good deeds follow them!”

Berean Study Bible
And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labors, for their deeds will follow them.”

New King James Version
Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’ ” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.”

King James Bible
And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

eternally-gratefull · Dec 2, 2019

PennEd said:

101 BIBLE REASONS PROVING
ETERNAL SECURITY

1. The believer has everlasting or eternal life.

John 5:24: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

John 10:28: “And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

2. The believer is born of God.

John 1:12-13: “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”

3. Christ will raise every believer up at the last day.

John 6:44-47: “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, and they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me hath everlasting life.”

4. The believer has already passed from death unto life.

John 5:24: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

5. The believer is not the object of God’s wrath.

John 3:36: “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

6. Believer are God’s sheep.

John 10:2-4: “But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.”

7. The believer will not listen to nor follow a stranger, but will flee from him.

John 10:5: “And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.” (The stranger here is Satan and his false teachers.)

8. The believer is known of God.

John 10:14: “I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.”

9. The believer listens to the voice of the shepherd.

John 10:27: “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.”

10. The believer is in Christ’s hand and cannot be plucked out.

John 10:28: “And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

11. The believer is in the Father’s hand and cannot be plucked out.

John 10:29: “My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.”

12. The shepherd is charged with the responsibility of keeping the sheep.

John 10:11-14: “I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.”

13. The believer is not condemned.

John 3:18: “He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”

14. The believer shall never thirst.

John 4:14: “But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.”

15. The believer will keep Christ’s commandments.

John 14:23: “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.”

16. The believer is secure because of Christ’s prayer.

John 17:9-12: “I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee, Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.”

17. The believer shall never die.

John 11:26: “And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”

18. The believer to be kept from the evil.

John 17:15: “I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.”

Jesus prays that the believer may be kept from the Devil. Was this prayer answered?

19. The believer to be with Christ in glory.

John 17:24: “Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.”

20. The believer shall never hunger.

John 6:35: “And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.”

21. The believer will in no wise be cast out (Not under any circumstance).

John 6:37: “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.”

22. Christ will not lose a single believer.

John 6:39: “And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.”

23. Christ will raise up the believer at the last day.

John 6:38-40: “For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

24. Whosoever eats the bread of life shall never die.

John 6:51: “I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

25. Because the Holy Spirit abides in the believer forever.

John 14:16-17: “And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.”

26. Because it is the Father’s will that Christ should lose nothing.

John 6:39: “And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.”

27. Because one cannot be unborn.

John 3:5: “Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”

28. The believer will follow Christ.

John 10:27: “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.” Following Christ, can one be lost? Have we any right to add to God’s Word by inserting if” to the passage?

29. The believers continue with God.

1 John 2:19: “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.”

30. Because it is the believer’s faith that overcomes the world.

1 John 5:4: “For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.”

31. Because of the record that God hath given.

1 John 5:10-11: “He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.”

32. The believer is to be like Christ.

1 John 3:2: “Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.”

33. The believer is kept by the power of God.

1 Peter 1:5: “Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”

34. The man who believes shall be saved.

Acts 16:31: “And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.”

35. The believer has been saved.

Ephesians 2:8-9: “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.

36. The believer is hid by God in Christ.

Colossians 3:3: “For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.” Can the devil find that which God hides?

37. The believer shall not come into condemnation.

John 5:24: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

i do I the reads them or responds. But I pray he does (they do)

but great find

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 2, 2019

Noose said:

Just a few chpts earlier, he/Paul had just stated (same letter),

"Now I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold firmly [G2722--same word as the later chpt 15:2 ('keep')] to the traditions [/transmission/teachings (also found in 2Th2:15 and 3:6)], just as *I* delivered them to you."

Noose · Dec 2, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

And Paul did not deliver a wrong gospel. He preached the right gospel and they believed. If they don't hold on then they have believed in vain.

eternally-gratefull · Dec 2, 2019

eternally-gratefull said:

I hate autocorrect

”I doubt”

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 2, 2019

Noose said:

No, not *all* of the Revelation; I've mentioned in past posts that ONLY the following aspects of the Revelation are "future":

--Revelation 1:1 [22:6] says, "[The] Revelation of Jesus Christ, which GOD GAVE UNTO HIM [unto Jesus], TO SHEW UNTO His servants [see 7:3] things which must come to pass [<--comp that phrase with the verses I will supply below this one] IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]…" (NOT things which would transpire over the course of some 2000 yrs, nor things which would transpire "IMMEDIATELY [ADVERB]," nor "SOON [ADVERB]," nor "QUICKLY [ADVERB]"; but "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN; parallel a cpl other verses I've pointed out in the past]";

--Revelation 1:19c, "things which must [/are certain to - G3195 mellei / mello] take place [comp same ^ ] after these [/these things]" (that is, AFTER the things already JUST listed and described as being "the things WHICH ARE" [i.e. chpts 2-3]);

--Revelation 4:1, "AFTER these things..." (this is where that 1:19c is picking up, to thereafter describe [from 4:1 and forward] "the things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]"; whereas, the "things WHICH ARE" do not transpire in quickness [noun], but those unfold over much time instead ["what the Spirit saith to the churchES" (not merely to "the Church which is His body" either; and not merely to 7 local churches listed there)]

I disagree. The passage under question is speaking of the things/events just described, and grasping the "timing" issues, even considering 13:5-7 and Dan7:25,27 informs us that the events described in that passage ONLY take place 42mos / 3.5y before Christ's return to the earth [NOT our Rapture], not that the beast only exists on the earth for that length of time, mind you, but that that length of time/set of time-period is when he is "given" to be allowed to do certain/particular things (mentioned in these passages; like "made war with the saints, and PREVAILED AGAINST THEM")

Which gospel?

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