Not By Works
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Reminds me of the serpent in Genesis 3 who , after Eve informed it of what God had said, retorted with, "Has God indeed said?" The Book of Genesis chapter 3 verse 1.
That verse in 2nd Peter is perfect to renounce the false teachings under discussion in this thread. If we are carried away by false teachers we may lose our secure position in understanding the word of God as God intended. Not that we will lose what we're told is God's free irrevocable, keyword, irrevocable, gift.
That verse in 2nd Peter is perfect to renounce the false teachings under discussion in this thread. If we are carried away by false teachers we may lose our secure position in understanding the word of God as God intended. Not that we will lose what we're told is God's free irrevocable, keyword, irrevocable, gift.
And there is something to be said for letting those who think they can trample on the blood of Christ and remain saved. In the end God is the judge. And he has warned us beforehand what to expect if we do that.
Romans 11:20-21 NAS
"they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either."
Don't fear that somehow God's salvation is not secure. Fear the consequences of falling away from faith in Christ.
If you stay humbly in the tree through faith you don't have to worry about losing your salvation.
The church is terribly conceited and thinks it can not possibly lose it's place in the tree because of unbelief. It has no fear of that. It thinks it's still saved even if it stops believing.
Romans 11:20-21 NAS
"they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either."
Don't fear that somehow God's salvation is not secure. Fear the consequences of falling away from faith in Christ.
If you stay humbly in the tree through faith you don't have to worry about losing your salvation.
The church is terribly conceited and thinks it can not possibly lose it's place in the tree because of unbelief. It has no fear of that. It thinks it's still saved even if it stops believing.
Of course they have the free will to choose life or death when the testimony of the Holy Spirit speaks to their heart.
1 John 5:6,9-10 KJV
"it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
9If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 10He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son."
Some choose to believe what the Spirit shows them to be true about the Son. Most choose not to believe what the Spirit has shown them to be true about the Son.
1 John 5:6,9-10 KJV
"it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
9If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 10He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son."
Some choose to believe what the Spirit shows them to be true about the Son. Most choose not to believe what the Spirit has shown them to be true about the Son.
Of course he does. But it's still your decision whether you're going to believe what he says is true, or not. Like any good Father, he'll help you make the right decision.
Not enduring in faith in Christ's blood is........unbelief. You can only be saved by Christ's blood through faith. Understand?
No faith means no access to that which saves.
Not enduring in faith in Christ's blood is........unbelief. You can only be saved by Christ's blood through faith. Understand?
No faith means no access to that which saves.
1 John 5:10 KJV
"he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. "
Matthew 12:31-32 KJV
"All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
"he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. "
Matthew 12:31-32 KJV
"All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
But you see, in studying the scriptures, and perhaps it is not your fault you were just not taught this beforehand, CONTEXT is key.
Cherry picking a verse can make to say anything the cherry picker wishes to communicate.
Picture this. In the beginning God created those whom He would save and those whom He would damn.
That explains why the tree of sin fruit, forbidden to consume, was planted in the "middle" of the garden of Eden.
Now, after God created all things, the Heavens and the Earth and all that walks, crawls or flies within its confines, He looked upon it and judged it good.
Why was an off limits tree guaranteed to send the worlds future people into a sin nature, be planted in Eden that was said to be a paradise? Because God predetermined sin would enter the world through one man; Adam.
Therefore, Adam had no choice but to eat of that forbidden fruit. Eve had no choice but to obey the serpent God let into His garden.
Because, God had predetermined sin would enter the world. That way those He elected to save from the sin that had to enter for salvation to be necessary would be able to be saved by the creator who prior to creating the Heavens and the Earth created a list of people He would save from Sin He predetermined to enter the world. And conversely , to make manifest those whom He would condemn to Hell.
The thing about Calvinism?
Not even the Calvinist is secure in their own mind that they are indeed one of those selected for Salvation by God before anything came to exist.
Meanwhile, since that totally depraved person has no choice about being saved from their God given condition of Total Depravity, but were chosen by God to be saved from all that God made it necessary to be saved from, can go on sinning to their hearts content! Because they were chosen by God to be saved before even sin was allowed to exist.
Amen?
Cherry picking a verse can make to say anything the cherry picker wishes to communicate.
Picture this. In the beginning God created those whom He would save and those whom He would damn.
That explains why the tree of sin fruit, forbidden to consume, was planted in the "middle" of the garden of Eden.
Now, after God created all things, the Heavens and the Earth and all that walks, crawls or flies within its confines, He looked upon it and judged it good.
Why was an off limits tree guaranteed to send the worlds future people into a sin nature, be planted in Eden that was said to be a paradise? Because God predetermined sin would enter the world through one man; Adam.
Therefore, Adam had no choice but to eat of that forbidden fruit. Eve had no choice but to obey the serpent God let into His garden.
Because, God had predetermined sin would enter the world. That way those He elected to save from the sin that had to enter for salvation to be necessary would be able to be saved by the creator who prior to creating the Heavens and the Earth created a list of people He would save from Sin He predetermined to enter the world. And conversely , to make manifest those whom He would condemn to Hell.
The thing about Calvinism?
Not even the Calvinist is secure in their own mind that they are indeed one of those selected for Salvation by God before anything came to exist.
Meanwhile, since that totally depraved person has no choice about being saved from their God given condition of Total Depravity, but were chosen by God to be saved from all that God made it necessary to be saved from, can go on sinning to their hearts content! Because they were chosen by God to be saved before even sin was allowed to exist.
Amen?
The Galatians lost the faith to believe in the blood of Christ. They fell away from faith in Christ for justification and back to the law for justification. So much for the gift being irrevocable meaning you can't lose the gift of faith. Deceivers caused them to lose faith in Christ.
Read the whole chapter, the gifts and calling being irrevocable means something else, not that you can't ever lose the faith to believe.
Read the whole chapter, the gifts and calling being irrevocable means something else, not that you can't ever lose the faith to believe.
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I didn't say and it doesn't say, one can't lose faith to believe. It says God's free gift of grace that leads to salvation can never be revoked. That means, even if someone who had faith falls out of faith, God's grace keeps them secure. Because otherwise? A person's choice would be superior to God's grace.
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Maybe consider reading this:
Galatians
Theme
Paul writes to counter the claims of legalistic Judaizers who were telling the Galatian believers that they must be circumcised and keep the law of Moses in order to be saved.
Overview
In the whole Bible, there is no more passionate, comprehensive, yet concise statement of the truth of the gospel than Galatians. Salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ alone. No work can earn salvation. The NKJV Study Bible says the apostle Paul reveals in this letter the arrogance of people who want to earn their salvation by works that can easily be identified; amounting to a desertion of the gospel’s truth and a turning away from God. We can stand justified before God only through faith in Jesus Christ; Paul emphasizes repeatedly that nothing else will save us. Paul also addresses themes dealing with the Christian life; living out the new freedom believers possess in Christ.
Galatians
Theme
Paul writes to counter the claims of legalistic Judaizers who were telling the Galatian believers that they must be circumcised and keep the law of Moses in order to be saved.
Overview
In the whole Bible, there is no more passionate, comprehensive, yet concise statement of the truth of the gospel than Galatians. Salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ alone. No work can earn salvation. The NKJV Study Bible says the apostle Paul reveals in this letter the arrogance of people who want to earn their salvation by works that can easily be identified; amounting to a desertion of the gospel’s truth and a turning away from God. We can stand justified before God only through faith in Jesus Christ; Paul emphasizes repeatedly that nothing else will save us. Paul also addresses themes dealing with the Christian life; living out the new freedom believers possess in Christ.
The early church didn't believe those doctrines. Neither do I. And not because I was taught to not believe them but because I spent years reading the Bible without the leaven of those ridiculous Theologian's teachings so that when I did learn about those teachings I instantly recognized them as being false.
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And yet, Jesus said no one will take the saved from His hand.No one. Not even we can remove ourselves from His hand.
Jesus died to take the sins of the world upon Himself on the cross. That whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but shall have immortal life.
Question: "Can a Christian lose salvation?"
Answer: First, the term Christian must be defined. A “Christian” is not a person who has said a prayer or walked down an aisle or been raised in a Christian family. While each of these things can be a part of the Christian experience, they are not what makes a Christian. A Christian is a person who has fully trusted in Jesus Christ as the only Savior and therefore possesses the Holy Spirit (John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8–9).
So, with this definition in mind, can a Christian lose salvation? It’s a crucially important question. Perhaps the best way to answer it is to examine what the Bible says occurs at salvation and to study what losing salvation would entail:
A Christian is a new creation. “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!” (2 Corinthians 5:17). A Christian is not simply an “improved” version of a person; a Christian is an entirely new creature. He is “in Christ.” For a Christian to lose salvation, the new creation would have to be destroyed.
A Christian is redeemed. “For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect” (1 Peter 1:18–19). The word redeemed refers to a purchase being made, a price being paid. We were purchased at the cost of Christ’s death. For a Christian to lose salvation, God Himself would have to revoke His purchase of the individual for whom He paid with the precious blood of Christ.
A Christian is justified. “Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Romans 5:1). To justify is to declare righteous. All those who receive Jesus as Savior are “declared righteous” by God. For a Christian to lose salvation, God would have to go back on His Word and “un-declare” what He had previously declared. Those absolved of guilt would have to be tried again and found guilty. God would have to reverse the sentence handed down from the divine bench.
A Christian is promised eternal life. “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16). Eternal life is the promise of spending forever in heaven with God. God promises, “Believe and you will have eternal life.” For a Christian to lose salvation, eternal life would have to be redefined. The Christian is promised to live forever. Does eternal not mean “eternal”?
A Christian is marked by God and sealed by the Spirit. “You also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory” (Ephesians 1:13–14). At the moment of faith, the new Christian is marked and sealed with the Spirit, who was promised to act as a deposit to guarantee the heavenly inheritance. The end result is that God’s glory is praised. For a Christian to lose salvation, God would have to erase the mark, withdraw the Spirit, cancel the deposit, break His promise, revoke the guarantee, keep the inheritance, forego the praise, and lessen His glory.
A Christian is guaranteed glorification. “Those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified” (Romans 8:30). According to Romans 5:1, justification is ours at the moment of faith. According to Romans 8:30, glorification comes with justification. All those whom God justifies are promised to be glorified. This promise will be fulfilled when Christians receive their perfect resurrection bodies in heaven. If a Christian can lose salvation, then Romans 8:30 is in error, because God could not guarantee glorification for all those whom He predestines, calls, and justifies.
A Christian cannot lose salvation. Most, if not all, of what the Bible says happens to us when we receive Christ would be invalidated if salvation could be lost. Salvation is the gift of God, and God’s gifts are “irrevocable” (Romans 11:29). A Christian cannot be un-newly created. The redeemed cannot be unpurchased. Eternal life cannot be temporary. God cannot renege on His Word. Scripture says that God cannot lie (Titus 1:2).
Two common objections to the belief that a Christian cannot lose salvation concern these experiential issues: 1) What about Christians who live in a sinful, unrepentant lifestyle? 2) What about Christians who reject the faith and deny Christ? The problem with these objections is the assumption that everyone who calls himself a “Christian” has actually been born again. The Bible declares that a true Christian will not live a state of continual, unrepentant sin (1 John 3:6). The Bible also says that anyone who departs the faith is demonstrating that he was never truly a Christian (1 John 2:19). He may have been religious, he may have put on a good show, but he was never born again by the power of God. “By their fruit you will recognize them” (Matthew 7:16). The redeemed of God belong “to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God” (Romans 7:4).
Nothing can separate a child of God from the Father’s love (Romans 8:38–39). Nothing can remove a Christian from God’s hand (John 10:28–29). God guarantees eternal life and maintains the salvation He has given us. The Good Shepherd searches for the lost sheep, and, “when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home” (Luke 15:5–6). The lamb is found, and the Shepherd gladly bears the burden; our Lord takes full responsibility for bringing the lost one safely home.
Jude 24–25 further emphasizes the goodness and faithfulness of our Savior: “To Him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy—to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.”
Jesus died to take the sins of the world upon Himself on the cross. That whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but shall have immortal life.
Answer: First, the term Christian must be defined. A “Christian” is not a person who has said a prayer or walked down an aisle or been raised in a Christian family. While each of these things can be a part of the Christian experience, they are not what makes a Christian. A Christian is a person who has fully trusted in Jesus Christ as the only Savior and therefore possesses the Holy Spirit (John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8–9).
So, with this definition in mind, can a Christian lose salvation? It’s a crucially important question. Perhaps the best way to answer it is to examine what the Bible says occurs at salvation and to study what losing salvation would entail:
A Christian is a new creation. “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!” (2 Corinthians 5:17). A Christian is not simply an “improved” version of a person; a Christian is an entirely new creature. He is “in Christ.” For a Christian to lose salvation, the new creation would have to be destroyed.
A Christian is redeemed. “For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect” (1 Peter 1:18–19). The word redeemed refers to a purchase being made, a price being paid. We were purchased at the cost of Christ’s death. For a Christian to lose salvation, God Himself would have to revoke His purchase of the individual for whom He paid with the precious blood of Christ.
A Christian is justified. “Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Romans 5:1). To justify is to declare righteous. All those who receive Jesus as Savior are “declared righteous” by God. For a Christian to lose salvation, God would have to go back on His Word and “un-declare” what He had previously declared. Those absolved of guilt would have to be tried again and found guilty. God would have to reverse the sentence handed down from the divine bench.
A Christian is promised eternal life. “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16). Eternal life is the promise of spending forever in heaven with God. God promises, “Believe and you will have eternal life.” For a Christian to lose salvation, eternal life would have to be redefined. The Christian is promised to live forever. Does eternal not mean “eternal”?
A Christian is marked by God and sealed by the Spirit. “You also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory” (Ephesians 1:13–14). At the moment of faith, the new Christian is marked and sealed with the Spirit, who was promised to act as a deposit to guarantee the heavenly inheritance. The end result is that God’s glory is praised. For a Christian to lose salvation, God would have to erase the mark, withdraw the Spirit, cancel the deposit, break His promise, revoke the guarantee, keep the inheritance, forego the praise, and lessen His glory.
A Christian is guaranteed glorification. “Those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified” (Romans 8:30). According to Romans 5:1, justification is ours at the moment of faith. According to Romans 8:30, glorification comes with justification. All those whom God justifies are promised to be glorified. This promise will be fulfilled when Christians receive their perfect resurrection bodies in heaven. If a Christian can lose salvation, then Romans 8:30 is in error, because God could not guarantee glorification for all those whom He predestines, calls, and justifies.
A Christian cannot lose salvation. Most, if not all, of what the Bible says happens to us when we receive Christ would be invalidated if salvation could be lost. Salvation is the gift of God, and God’s gifts are “irrevocable” (Romans 11:29). A Christian cannot be un-newly created. The redeemed cannot be unpurchased. Eternal life cannot be temporary. God cannot renege on His Word. Scripture says that God cannot lie (Titus 1:2).
Two common objections to the belief that a Christian cannot lose salvation concern these experiential issues: 1) What about Christians who live in a sinful, unrepentant lifestyle? 2) What about Christians who reject the faith and deny Christ? The problem with these objections is the assumption that everyone who calls himself a “Christian” has actually been born again. The Bible declares that a true Christian will not live a state of continual, unrepentant sin (1 John 3:6). The Bible also says that anyone who departs the faith is demonstrating that he was never truly a Christian (1 John 2:19). He may have been religious, he may have put on a good show, but he was never born again by the power of God. “By their fruit you will recognize them” (Matthew 7:16). The redeemed of God belong “to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God” (Romans 7:4).
Nothing can separate a child of God from the Father’s love (Romans 8:38–39). Nothing can remove a Christian from God’s hand (John 10:28–29). God guarantees eternal life and maintains the salvation He has given us. The Good Shepherd searches for the lost sheep, and, “when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home” (Luke 15:5–6). The lamb is found, and the Shepherd gladly bears the burden; our Lord takes full responsibility for bringing the lost one safely home.
Jude 24–25 further emphasizes the goodness and faithfulness of our Savior: “To Him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy—to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.”