Not By Works

[Judges1318]

The ones who fell away and went back to law went to who they truly had faith in. The law

Paul says they started out in faith in Christ. We know that because they received the Spirit. If they were fake believers and 'truly' did not have faith in Christ they would not have received the Spirit.

you do not leave your true faith to go back to something you have repented from and insist that is what really saves you

The Galatians left true faith to go back to something they had repented from.
We know they had true faith because they received the Spirit. Fake believer don't receive the Spirit.
This shows us true believers really can go back to their old lives in unbelief. And that they lose justification in Christ if they do and don't want to come back to their senses.

paul was warning the people in the church who were on the fringe. Who had not yet really recieved Christ, but we’re still contemplating,it was they who needed to make a decision.

Your argument does not stand up to the scriptures.

Galatians 4:9-10 KJV
"But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? 10Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years."

At Galatia, those God knows have gone back to law keeping, not those who had not yet really received Christ.

chose christ,or chose the the law. You can’t have it both ways.

And that is exactly what Paul said.
You can't try to be justified by works of the law and have justification through Christ at the same time. It's one or the other.

people need to realize, most churches have truely saved baby christians, mature and adult christians, and people who have not yet made the decision, the not yet saved group.

many of them will be people John said left the church and became antichrists, because they were never of us

i know that is hard for some to see, but it is reality. We see it in our churches today.

I think what's hard for you and most others in the church to see is Galatians 4:9-10 where Paul said those who God knew were going back to law keeping for justification. He's not talking about not really saved people. He's talking about people God knew. They went backwards from Christ to the law for justification and Paul told them they can't have the benefit of Christ's justification if they do that.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Paul says they started out in faith in Christ. We know that because they received the Spirit. If they were fake believers and 'truly' did not have faith in Christ they would not have received the Spirit.



The Galatians left true faith to go back to something they had repented from.
We know they had true faith because they received the Spirit. Fake believer don't receive the Spirit.
This shows us true believers really can go back to their old lives in unbelief. And that they lose justification in Christ if they do and don't want to come back to their senses.



Your argument does not stand up to the scriptures.

Galatians 4:9-10 KJV
"But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? 10Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years."

At Galatia, those God knows have gone back to law keeping, not those who had not yet really received Christ.



And that is exactly what Paul said.
You can't try to be justified by works of the law and have justification through Christ at the same time. It's one or the other.



I think what's hard for you and most others in the church to see is Galatians 4:9-10 where Paul said those who God knew were going back to law keeping for justification. He's not talking about not really saved people. He's talking about people God knew. They went backwards from Christ to the law for justification and Paul told them they can't have the benefit of Christ's justification if they do that.

You will never get it

good luck earning salvation

 

[Judges1318]

No, silly, I'm not doing 'everything' to keep my salvation, lol.I'm staying in faith in Christ, apart from works, for justification. That's how you keep your salvation. Don't leave him for another gospel.

see, it’s your power not gods, its you doing this, not god doing this.

when will you admit this?

Since when is the command to trust in Christ the works gospel? Trust in Christ is not 'works', lol! It's the very thing you are to do to be justified!

The Galatians did not continue to trust Christ for justification and turned back to justification through the law. Paul said they lose the benefit and effect of Christ in justification by doing that.

Galatians 5:4 KJV
"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. "

 

[Judges1318]

If you do not believe, YOU NEVER HAD SALVATION

The Galatians believed and received the Spirit but turned away from belief in Christ and back to the law for justification. How can that mean they never had salvation. Can you have the Spirit and never have had salvation? You know the answer.

the wrath of God abides in themThey never saw life, as jesus said, he NEVER KNEW THEM

Paul said God DID know them.

Galatians 4: KJV
"But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?"

you do not go from belief to unbelief unless

1. the person you trust fails you and proves to be untrustworthy
2. you never really believed in the first place (you may have had mental agreement, but you never had saving faith

......or 3. You have been deceived into thinking that you need to also do the works of the law to be declared righteous. In which case you lose justification in Christ.
......or 4. You just plain miss your old life of sin and it's pleasures.
......or 5. You want it to be true that you can go back to your old life of sin and unbelief and still be saved.

your legalism will fail. You will never earn salvation no matter how hard you try

If trusting in Christ for justification apart from works is legalism and is me trying to earn my own salvation then, yes, I will never earn salvation no matter how hard I try.

You're literally saying trust in Christ is legalism. Stop and listen to what you're saying. Come to your senses, man!

So, if trusting in Christ apart from works of the law is the works gospel that can not save, what is the real gospel?????

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Since when is the command to trust in Christ the works gospel? Trust in Christ is not 'works', lol! It's the very thing you are to do to be justified!

The Galatians did not continue to trust Christ for justification and turned back to justification through the law. Paul said they lose the benefit and effect of Christ in justification by doing that.

Galatians 5:4 KJV
"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. "

Your doing it to keep salvation

you do not trust god to keep you from falling

end!

 

[Judges1318]

Christ became no effect to them

yep.

that means his grace never saved them. They had it in their hands, free to recieve,and they fell, having never recieved its power,

.

Paul said they DID receive it's power.

Galatians 3:3-4 KJV
"Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 5He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? "

Galatians 4:9-10 KJV
"now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? 10Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years."

They have the power of the Spirit, and God knows them, yet you insist that they never received the power of the Spirit and God never knew them, and so that's why they went back to the law. The scriptures say different.

Come to your senses, man, and be a part of the few.

 

[VCO]

Galatians 5:4 KJV
"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."

Look at it in a MODERN VERSION:

Galatians 5:4 (HCSB)
4 You who are trying to be justified by the law are alienated from Christ; you have fallen from grace.


That verse mirrors this portion of Holy Scripture:

Romans 11:6 (NASB)
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.


And this portion or Holy Scripture.

Romans 4:4-5 (NIV)
4 Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation.
5 However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.


DO YOU REALLY WORK TO ATTAIN or PROTECT your Righteousness ? ? ?

 

[EleventhHour]

Galatians 3:3-4 KJV
"Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 5He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? "

This right here is exactly the point .... they were not unjustified, they were justified/saved but they had turned to law keeping thinking that they could finish by the flesh (law) something that was spiritual (grace)

Grace is the essence and empowerment within to live the Godly life.. yet we can hamper that by focusing on our effort rather than Him and His victory, His righteousness, the His Spirit within,

I see nothing to argue

They were saved but were not living by grace (walking in the Spirit)
Pretty much the same theme many of Paul's letters....

 

[EleventhHour]

Look at it in a MODERN VERSION:

Galatians 5:4 (HCSB)
4 You who are trying to be justified by the law are alienated from Christ; you have fallen from grace.


That verse mirrors this portion of Holy Scripture:

Romans 11:6 (NASB)
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.


And this portion or Holy Scripture.

Romans 4:4-5 (NIV)
4 Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation.
5 However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.


DO YOU REALLY WORK TO ATTAIN or PROTECT your Righteousness ? ? ?

Exactly....... and being alienated from Christ does not mean they lost their salvation or they never had it to begin with... what they have ceased doing is trusting the Holy Spirit and His work within them and were focused basically on being good based and their own effort (law keeping).

 

[EleventhHour]

The Galatians believed and received the Spirit but turned away from belief in Christ and back to the law for justification. How can that mean they never had salvation. Can you have the Spirit and never have had salvation? You know the answer.


Paul said God DID know them.

Galatians 4: KJV
"But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?"



......or 3. You have been deceived into thinking that you need to also do the works of the law to be declared righteous. In which case you lose justification in Christ.
......or 4. You just plain miss your old life of sin and it's pleasures.
......or 5. You want it to be true that you can go back to your old life of sin and unbelief and still be saved.



If trusting in Christ for justification apart from works is legalism and is me trying to earn my own salvation then, yes, I will never earn salvation no matter how hard I try.

You're literally saying trust in Christ is legalism. Stop and listen to what you're saying. Come to your senses, man!

So, if trusting in Christ apart from works of the law is the works gospel that can not save, what is the real gospel?????

Ohhhhhh and one more thing.... living under the law required intense self-effort, however under grace it is the denial of that self-effort and leaning into and abiding in the One who provides the all sufficient grace and righteousness necessary.

Do you see why Paul called them foolish Galatians!!!

 

[EleventhHour]

This is my last attempt and if you cannot grasp it, do not respond....

Faith plus saved NO one including the Galatian Churches

THE PEOPLE Paul addresses are CALLED BRETHERN, they were ALREADY SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH when some SATANIC false teachers crept in and started corrupting the gospel

End of story!

It would seem based on today's ... your night time ...... it has yet to be grasped.

 

[Judges1318]

DO YOU REALLY WORK TO ATTAIN or PROTECT your Righteousness ? ? ?

No, I do not work to attain or protect my right standing with God.

I believe in Christ in order to attain and protect my right standing with God.

Romans 4:5 KJV
"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

 

[Judges1318]

This right here is exactly the point .... they were not unjustified, they were justified/saved but they had turned to law keeping thinking that they could finish by the flesh (law) something that was spiritual (grace)

Grace is the essence and empowerment within to live the Godly life.. yet we can hamper that by focusing on our effort rather than Him and His victory, His righteousness, the His Spirit within,

I see nothing to argue

They were saved but were not living by grace (walking in the Spirit)
Pretty much the same theme many of Paul's letters....

He's not saying that they had started out being made perfect over time through faith in Christ but are now trying to be made perfect over time through the law. He's speaking of the perfection through justification that those who are sanctified (those set apart for holiness) attain the moment they put their trust in the sacrifice of Jesus.

Hebrews 10:14
"For by one offering he hath perfected (justified) for ever them that are sanctified (set apart for God's holy purpose)."

That's what he's talking about. The Galatians started out that way; made perfect through the sacrifice of Christ (see verse above). But then they went back to keeping the law to receive that perfection of justification. He's asking the Galatians, 'after starting out being declared perfect in Christ, are you now instead declared perfect by keeping the law?' The answer is 'no', of course.

This has nothing to do with the process of becoming more and more set apart (sanctified) to holy living. It's about being declared perfect when you believe in the one time offering of Jesus. Are you, Galatians, going to go back to trying to be declared perfect by keeping the law (over and over and over again) after already starting out in the declaration of perfection you received the moment you believed in Christ and received the Holy Spirit?

 

[Judges1318]

Ohhhhhh and one more thing.... living under the law required intense self-effort, however under grace it is the denial of that self-effort and leaning into and abiding in the One who provides the all sufficient grace and righteousness necessary.

Do you see why Paul called them foolish Galatians!!!

Believing in Christ is not an intense self-effort of the law that it should condemn a person.

Romans 4:5 KJV
"to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

 

[Whispered]

Galatians 5:4 KJV
"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."

No, that does not say what you think it says. Read it again if you would please. Whosoever of you are justified by the law....
There is no Justification possible by the law now that that sacrificial law (of Moses) has been nailed to the cross with Jesus. The law of sacrifices for sin is not conducive to being justified by God's grace through faith.

 

[Judges1318]

Since when is the command to trust in Christ the works gospel? Trust in Christ is not 'works', lol! It's the very thing you are to do to be justified!

The Galatians did not continue to trust Christ for justification and turned back to justification through the law. Paul said they lose the benefit and effect of Christ in justification by doing that.

Galatians 5:4 KJV
"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. "

Your doing it to keep salvation

Of course I'm believing in Christ in order to justified and saved, lol! That's exactly what you're supposed to do to be justified and saved.

Galatians 3:11-12 KJV
"The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith"

But you're saying my faith in Christ is the law and is not of faith.

you do not trust god to keep you from falling

end!

Lol, God is the ONLY one who can keep me from falling. That's why I need to keep trusting in him. Doing that is not me working to be saved. Keeping the law to be saved is me trying to save myself. I'm not doing that. Instead I'm trusting in the blood of Christ to justify me and save me. If I stopped doing that and put my trust in something else to justify me then Paul says Christ is no effect to me in justification.

 

[Judges1318]

No, that does not say what you think it says. Read it again if you would please. Whosoever of you are justified by the law....
There is no Justification possible by the law now that that sacrificial law (of Moses) has been nailed to the cross with Jesus. The law of sacrifices for sin is not conducive to being justified by God's grace through faith.

It's obvious from the rest of the letter that Paul is referring to their futile attempt to be justified by the law. He's not saying they are being justified by the law now instead of Christ.

Galatians 3:11 KJV
"that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident"

Galatians 3:11 NIV
"Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God"

 

[Whispered]

It's obvious from the rest of the letter that Paul is referring to their futile attempt to be justified by the law. He's not saying they are being justified by the law now instead of Christ.

Galatians 3:11 KJV
"that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident"

Galatians 3:11 NIV
"Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God"

Yes, that's basically what I said. Thank you for adding those verses.

 

[Whispered]

Since when is the command to trust in Christ the works gospel? Trust in Christ is not 'works', lol! It's the very thing you are to do to be justified!

The Galatians did not continue to trust Christ for justification and turned back to justification through the law. Paul said they lose the benefit and effect of Christ in justification by doing that.

Galatians 5:4 KJV
"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. "

Does it strike you that EG is posting as one committed to satire of scripture at this point?
EG is that your game here?

Faith is not works, silly. Sometimes comedy has its place so when satire rises up one has to wonder if it has placed itself here.

 

[EleventhHour]

He's not saying that they had started out being made perfect over time through faith in Christ but are now trying to be made perfect over time through the law. He's speaking of the perfection through justification that those who are sanctified (those set apart for holiness) attain the moment they put their trust in the sacrifice of Jesus.

Hebrews 10:14
"For by one offering he hath perfected (justified) for ever them that are sanctified (set apart for God's holy purpose)."

That's what he's talking about. The Galatians started out that way; made perfect through the sacrifice of Christ (see verse above). But then they went back to keeping the law to receive that perfection of justification. He's asking the Galatians, 'after starting out being declared perfect in Christ, are you now instead declared perfect by keeping the law?' The answer is 'no', of course.

This has nothing to do with the process of becoming more and more set apart (sanctified) to holy living. It's about being declared perfect when you believe in the one time offering of Jesus. Are you, Galatians, going to go back to trying to be declared perfect by keeping the law (over and over and over again) after already starting out in the declaration of perfection you received the moment you believed in Christ and received the Holy Spirit?

The point remains they did not loose their justified status by going back the old system... what they have done is fallen from grace which is not loosing salvation.

I agree the Galatians were saved and the letter is written with the audience in mind of saved people.
So please address my thoughts and not someone's with me.