Not By Works

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Judges1318

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#114,861
Nov 16, 2019
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#114,861
EleventhHour said:
I know that Jesus saves to the uttermost and I have nothing to add to the free gift of salvation (biblical)...
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Of course you can't add anything to the cross to be justified. But you can't take away what gives you access to the cross and still have access to the cross.


EleventhHour said:
...what you believe is Jesus barely and maybe saves, depending how hard you work and believe.
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Justification and salvation through Jesus is complete and total. You can't work to get that kind of justification, nor can you work to keep such a justification. The way to justification in Christ is believing, not works. You can't have the benefit of a Messiah you do not believe in or no longer believe in. That's what was happening to the Galatians. They were moving from believing in God in order to be justified to working the works of the law to be justified. God can't justify the person who doesn't believe. Justification is dependent and conditional on BELIEVING, not on nothing at all as the church loves to teach these days. Even Calvinism doesn't believe that, lol!
 
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eternally-gratefull

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#114,862
TooFastTurtle said:
Ironic because that Romans 3:8 verse describes perfectly the doctrine of "God will take you out early" if you keep on sinning ;)
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Romans 3: 8 And why not say, “Let us do evil that good may come”?—as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their [c]condemnation is just.

where does this say if we keep on sinning we will be taken out? Did you mean another verse?
 
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EleventhHour

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Judges1318 said:
Of course you can't add anything to the cross to be justified. But you can't take away what gives you access to the cross.



Justification and salvation through Jesus is complete and total. You can't work to get that kind of justification, nor can you work to keep such a justification. The way to justification in Christ is believing, not works. You can't have the benefit of a Messiah you do not believe in or no longer believe in. That's what was happening to the Galatians. They were moving from believing in God in order to be justified to working the works of the law to be justified. God can't justify the person who doesn't believe. Justification is dependent and conditional on BELIEVING, not on nothing at all as the church loves to teach these days. Even Calvinism doesn't believe that!
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Hmm................ you ideas are remind me of another poster on this thread when I was reading through it about a week ago?

One belief with eternal results
 
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Judges1318

Banned
#114,864
Nov 16, 2019
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#114,864
..going Black Friday shopping to scrape up whatever's left on the shelves or lying in the aisles. :)

Meanwhile, you people start figuring out how to explain how a person can be saved without believing in the cross.
 
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eternally-gratefull

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#114,865
Judges1318 said:
Remember the good ol' days (lol) when once saved always saved meant that if did not continue in the faith it meant you were never really saved to begin with? Now once saved always saved means there is nothing you can believe or do that will cause God to remove his declaration of right standing with him from a person. You can even fall away and believe another gospel and you are still saved. ...Except if you are a believer arguing in this forum for the keeping of the law. That is the only exception to once saved always saved. :giggle:
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You do not understand Eternal salvation at all, Proven by this post

I knew you were a legalist, All I had to do was wait, peoples true colors always show. Thanks for proving what I knew all along

ps. Eternal life is eternal.

If it can be lost. It is not eternal.

But hey, keep trying to earn yoru salvation. You will answer to God why one day.. I just pray you wake up before its too late.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#114,866
#114,866
Judges1318 said:
Of course you can't add anything to the cross to be justified. But you can't take away what gives you access to the cross and still have access to the cross.



Justification and salvation through Jesus is complete and total. You can't work to get that kind of justification, nor can you work to keep such a justification. The way to justification in Christ is believing, not works. You can't have the benefit of a Messiah you do not believe in or no longer believe in. That's what was happening to the Galatians. They were moving from believing in God in order to be justified to working the works of the law to be justified. God can't justify the person who doesn't believe. Justification is dependent and conditional on BELIEVING, not on nothing at all as the church loves to teach these days. Even Calvinism doesn't believe that, lol!
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So I cant work at being justified

But if I do not work, I will lose my justification

See the irony?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#114,867
#114,867
Judges1318 said:
..going Black Friday shopping to scrape up whatever's left on the shelves or lying in the aisles. :)

Meanwhile, you people start figuring out how to explain how a person can be saved without believing in the cross.
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ThEy can’t Nor can they be saved without true repentance, Nor can they be saved without true saving faith.

Maybe you can explain how a person can come to true repentance, And true faith in God. Then LOSE that faith when God (is is the perfect father, savior and will never leave us astray) never lets us down?

Considering we lose faith in people who fail us. So who is going to lose faith in God. Unless they never had real faith to begin with?

Can you explain this for me?
 
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EleventhHour

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#114,868
Judges1318 said:
..going Black Friday shopping to scrape up whatever's left on the shelves or lying in the aisles. :)

Meanwhile, you people start figuring out how to explain how a person can be saved without believing in the cross.
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No one has stated this.:rolleyes:
 
TooFastTurtle

TooFastTurtle

Active member
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Apr 10, 2019
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eternally-gratefull said:
How about this

instead of pushing the sabbath, is t not better to push loving others, placing their needs above yoru own, and serving God.

Why do people feel they pushing the sabbath is so righteous? Do they think God will do somethign for them if they do that?

The question of are they saved or not should be far from the real issue, Only God knows that. the issue, why are you pushing some law. Instead of pushing what God wants us to do?
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I do not know, I do not push sabbath, I just used it as an example
 
TooFastTurtle

TooFastTurtle

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Apr 10, 2019
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EleventhHour said:
Wrong

Once the judge has pronounced you innocent/justified because you believe/trusted in the debt being paid you cannot be found guilty again, the debt was paid on your behalf, you have accepted the payment, it is a done deal... and the debt cannot imputed back to you.

If you are declared innocent then you are innocent.

You preach an illogical gospel
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Have you ever been to court? Guess what happens if you mess up after you are on parole? Or if you commit another crime once you have been declared innocent?
 
TooFastTurtle

TooFastTurtle

Active member
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Apr 10, 2019
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Judges1318 said:
Remember the good ol' days (lol) when once saved always saved meant that if did not continue in the faith it meant you were never really saved to begin with? Now once saved always saved means there is nothing you can believe or do that will cause God to remove his declaration of right standing with him from a person. You can even fall away and believe another gospel and you are still saved. ...Except if you are a believer arguing in this forum for the keeping of the law. That is the only exception to once saved always saved. :giggle:
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Yes you are right. Salvation has been turned into a mental acceptance of certain facts and doctrines. If you do not believe this set of doctrines invented after the reformation, then you just are not saved and are trusting in your works to save you.

Which again I have never pushed works salvation, no amount of doing good works will help you get saved. What I am contending against is the twisting of 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 to teach no repentance is required of these sins, that you can do these sins and still go to heaven. Usually verses like that are twisted to say it means rewards in the kingdom or that it applies to lost people somehow even though its a warning to believers and many of them have turned away from these sins. That is all I care about really. I am not interested in the theories or systematics, I am interested in practical application, what fruit is this producing.
 
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eternally-gratefull

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TooFastTurtle said:
I do not know, I do not push sabbath, I just used it as an example
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It still remains

we become obedient by learning to love, not by obeying commands.

We obey commands because we love, not because we have power.
 
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eternally-gratefull

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TooFastTurtle said:
Yes you are right. Salvation has been turned into a mental acceptance of certain facts and doctrines. If you do not believe this set of doctrines invented after the reformation, then you just are not saved and are trusting in your works to save you.

Which again I have never pushed works salvation, no amount of doing good works will help you get saved. What I am contending against is the twisting of 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 to teach no repentance is required of these sins, that you can do these sins and still go to heaven. Usually verses like that are twisted to say it means rewards in the kingdom or that it applies to lost people somehow even though its a warning to believers and many of them have turned away from these sins. That is all I care about really. I am not interested in the theories or systematics, I am interested in practical application, what fruit is this producing.
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So no amount of good works will get you to heaven,

but if we do not do works, we will not get to heaven.

This is a contradictory statement, why can’t you see this?
 
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eternally-gratefull

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#114,876
TooFastTurtle said:
Yes you are right. Salvation has been turned into a mental acceptance of certain facts and doctrines. If you do not believe this set of doctrines invented after the reformation, then you just are not saved and are trusting in your works to save you.

.
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who teaches this, I have yet to find anyone who believes this. In fact, James says mere belief is good. But Even demons believe..

and your final conclusion about people is doing also.

I suggest you listen to what is said, and stop assuming, Because your assumptions are in error.
 
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EleventhHour

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TooFastTurtle said:
Have you ever been to court? Guess what happens if you mess up after you are on parole? Or if you commit another crime once you have been declared innocent?
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To quote a friend, @dcontroversal hahahahahahahahahahahahah and hahaha and more hahahaha.

All sins are paid for ....past, present and future. And therefore declared innocent of every offense. Paid in Full.
 
TooFastTurtle

TooFastTurtle

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Apr 10, 2019
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eternally-gratefull said:
So no amount of good works will get you to heaven,

but if we do not do works, we will not get to heaven.

This is a contradictory statement, why can’t you see this?
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I did not say a word about doing works. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 has not a single good human work listed in it. It has a lack of works to be exact, lack of certain works, which will keep us from the Kingdom. Those works being the sins mentioned. Evil works.
 
TooFastTurtle

TooFastTurtle

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eternally-gratefull said:
Where in the Bible does it say God put us on parol? Lol. Do people make this stuff up?
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No where, but it was brought up by another person I was simply responding to it. The point was the same as in John 15, abide in the vine or the Father will cut us off.

Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

How to abide? Here is how:

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

There is always that if somewhere when you read the entire book. Chapter and verse numbers have done a number on us as David Pawson used to say.
 
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