Can A Merciful God Condemn A Man To Hell Who Has Never Heard The Gospel, And Justify Himself In Doing So?
- Thread starter MessageOfTheCross
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
L
This is a faulty assessment.
because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
Romans 1:19-25 NASB
No one is condemned unfairly.
because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
Romans 1:19-25 NASB
No one is condemned unfairly.
-
2
-
1
-
1
- Show all
yes because they are condemned to Death and Hades/Hell a place of refinement but if you are talking about the lake of fire/Hell only soulless creatures who's name is not in the book of life will be condemned to the lake of fire/Hell so it's like burning a piece of wood.
Matthew 13
24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’
28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.
“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’
29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”
Matthew 13
24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’
28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.
“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’
29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”
"We trust in the Living God who is the Saviour of all men, espescially of them who believe." Jesus made it cear that he will reward everyone according to his work.
The verse you quoted refers to those who believe to go on to perfecxtion, and will have part in the first Resurrection. We are considering a study on the subject here. But those who are permitted to go on to perfection must be thought by the Holy Spirit and we havent figured if it would be a distraction from learning of Him, walking in the Spirit. Since we dont know how to advise others in the inner Way, it concerns them to come of their own accord.
The verse you quoted refers to those who believe to go on to perfecxtion, and will have part in the first Resurrection. We are considering a study on the subject here. But those who are permitted to go on to perfection must be thought by the Holy Spirit and we havent figured if it would be a distraction from learning of Him, walking in the Spirit. Since we dont know how to advise others in the inner Way, it concerns them to come of their own accord.
-
1
- Show all
I'm seeing variations of this question a lot on here. I don't think its anything new, but I do think its perhaps more common now because of our hedonistic culture and the extreme value we have placed on the individual in western society. We question scripture and at times put ourselves on equal footing with God, and sometimes above God. I'm not pointing fingers because I used to do it too.
There's a video that encapsulates it very well that gets shared on social media platforms like Facebook. Here it is:
Stephen Fry doesn't take issue with the question of salvation, he gets right to the meat of the matter and openly challenges God....he even takes it to the ultimate degree by daring to put himself above God and sit in judgement of Him.
The way in which I've moved past this, is that I focus on my relationship with God....recognizing that I am broken and sinful, and knowing that my only hope for salvation is through the blood of the Lamb. As for anyone else? Their salvation or condemnation is not for me to decide. I have enough to worry about with my own salvation to concern myself with the salvation of others. That is not to say that I have no regard for my fellow human beings. Scripture teaches me that Jesus is very clear about how I'm too treat others, whether they be brothers and sisters in Christ or not.
God does not need to justify Himself to me, I need to justify myself to God and I can only do that through the fruits of the Spirit by laying my sins at the foot of the cross.
Blessings
There's a video that encapsulates it very well that gets shared on social media platforms like Facebook. Here it is:
Stephen Fry doesn't take issue with the question of salvation, he gets right to the meat of the matter and openly challenges God....he even takes it to the ultimate degree by daring to put himself above God and sit in judgement of Him.
The way in which I've moved past this, is that I focus on my relationship with God....recognizing that I am broken and sinful, and knowing that my only hope for salvation is through the blood of the Lamb. As for anyone else? Their salvation or condemnation is not for me to decide. I have enough to worry about with my own salvation to concern myself with the salvation of others. That is not to say that I have no regard for my fellow human beings. Scripture teaches me that Jesus is very clear about how I'm too treat others, whether they be brothers and sisters in Christ or not.
God does not need to justify Himself to me, I need to justify myself to God and I can only do that through the fruits of the Spirit by laying my sins at the foot of the cross.
Blessings
-
2
- Show all
You must mean "God resists the proud but gives Grace to the humble." It also sais "All the proud will be brough low and only the Lord will be exaulted in that day." Those who learn of Him Humility now, will have rest from trouble. "In the world you will have trouble but be of good cheer I have overcome the world." God causes us to overcome the world: and enter into His Joy. As we live for His praise and not selfish ambitions we bring Him Joy, and "The Joy of the Lord is our strengh." We are in an endurance race to percevere. But those in pride of achievment disqualify themselves and think they have already attained. These "will be saved through fire but lose their reward: to see Jesus as He is and be like Him.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
No one will be without excuse regarding the gospel and here's why:
"Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth—to every nation, tribe, language and people. He said in a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water.” (Rev.14:6-7)
During the time of God's wrath, God in His grace and mercy, will send an angel to proclaiming the eternal gospel to all who live on the earth, to every nation, tribe, language and people. That means that they will all hear it in their own language regardless of where or who they are, just like those 120 believers all speaking in different languages at Pentecost.
"Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth—to every nation, tribe, language and people. He said in a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water.” (Rev.14:6-7)
During the time of God's wrath, God in His grace and mercy, will send an angel to proclaiming the eternal gospel to all who live on the earth, to every nation, tribe, language and people. That means that they will all hear it in their own language regardless of where or who they are, just like those 120 believers all speaking in different languages at Pentecost.
-
1
- Show all
Absolutely. Man is not deserving of being saved to begin with my friend. Grace is unmerited favor and if it is unmerited, then there is nothing in man that compels God to save Him. If God has to offer salvation to every "Tom, Dick, Harry, Jane, Mary, Betty, &c" then it is no longer grace. "For grace to be grace, it must be free. If God has to offer grace to everyone, it ceases to be grace and becomes an obligation." Dr. James White
The Christ, in His conversation with the Samaritan woman at the well told her this, "You worship what you do not know."[John 4:22a] This was in response to her saying, “Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. Our fathers worshiped in this mountain, and you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.”[John 4:19b-20] He told her she had no idea who she was worshiping. Ppl, who have never heard the gospel, if they worship something, it is an idol and not the One True God. And due to this idolatry, they are rebel sinners who, if they are left in this fallen state of idolatry, will be punished in the lake of fire.
As far as God being merciful...
And He said, “I Myself will make all My goodness pass before you, and will proclaim the name of the LORD before you; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show compassion on whom I will show compassion.”[Exodus 33:19]
For He says to Moses, “I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION.” So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.[Romans 9:15,18]
So, yes, He is a merciful God. But He doesn't extend mercy to everyone. As evidenced in the day of Judgment when many are cast into the lake of fire.
The Christ, in His conversation with the Samaritan woman at the well told her this, "You worship what you do not know."[John 4:22a] This was in response to her saying, “Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. Our fathers worshiped in this mountain, and you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.”[John 4:19b-20] He told her she had no idea who she was worshiping. Ppl, who have never heard the gospel, if they worship something, it is an idol and not the One True God. And due to this idolatry, they are rebel sinners who, if they are left in this fallen state of idolatry, will be punished in the lake of fire.
As far as God being merciful...
And He said, “I Myself will make all My goodness pass before you, and will proclaim the name of the LORD before you; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show compassion on whom I will show compassion.”[Exodus 33:19]
For He says to Moses, “I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION.” So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.[Romans 9:15,18]
So, yes, He is a merciful God. But He doesn't extend mercy to everyone. As evidenced in the day of Judgment when many are cast into the lake of fire.
-
1
- Show all
Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Ecc 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son(the man Christ Jesus).
God is a fair God and will not condemn people that have not heard the word of God, and have not heard of Jesus.
God will judge all people according to their works, and if He judges all people then people that have not heard can be saved, for if they cannot be saved why are they judged and condemned for it is not their fault.
God will judge humanity by the man Christ Jesus His own personal human body for the Son is perfect before God, and obtained eternal life, so no one has an excuse for not being able to do the same.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.
Creation testifies of a higher power that created all things, and of His attributes which one of them is love for He provided food, and the means to make clothing and shelter, so the world is without excuse, and testifies of the 2 greatest laws, love God, and love people, and love works no ill towards their neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
A person can be saved that has not heard of Jesus if they acknowledged a higher power, and did not offend people, and asked God for forgiveness if they do wrong against people, and ask forgiveness if anything is amiss for they do not have words from this higher power, and by their conscience that testifies of good and evil.
An example is Enoch, Noah, and Job, who was righteous with God before the Old Testament was given.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
These people that are saved cannot dwell with Jesus for they did not know about Him until after the millennial reign of Christ, but can join the saints at that time, for whosoever was not found in the book of life was not saved, for there is no reason to word it like that unless some people could be saved for it did not say they were all thrown in the lake of fire.
If God will judge all people by their works then all people have a chance at salvation whether they heard of Jesus or not.
Rom 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Rom 3:2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
Isa 41:21 Produce your cause, saith the LORD; bring forth your strong reasons, saith the King of Jacob.
Isa 41:22 Let them bring them forth, and shew us what shall happen: let them shew the former things, what they be, that we may consider them, and know the latter end of them; or declare us things for to come.
Isa 41:23 Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye are gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold it together.
Isa 41:24 Behold, ye are of nothing, and your work of nought: an abomination is he that chooseth you.
Isa 41:26 Who hath declared from the beginning, that we may know? and beforetime, that we may say, He is righteous? yea, there is none that sheweth, yea, there is none that declareth, yea, there is none that heareth your words.
Isa 41:28 For I beheld, and there was no man; even among them, and there was no counsellor, that, when I asked of them, could answer a word.
Isa 41:29 Behold, they are all vanity; their works are nothing: their molten images are wind and confusion.
But the saints have an advantage over the people that have not heard for they have the proof of the word of God which God identifies Himself as the one true God by His written word, and has told the saints the beginning from the end, and told the whole history of mankind, which God said no person or religion will be able to do that.
Ecc 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son(the man Christ Jesus).
God is a fair God and will not condemn people that have not heard the word of God, and have not heard of Jesus.
God will judge all people according to their works, and if He judges all people then people that have not heard can be saved, for if they cannot be saved why are they judged and condemned for it is not their fault.
God will judge humanity by the man Christ Jesus His own personal human body for the Son is perfect before God, and obtained eternal life, so no one has an excuse for not being able to do the same.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.
Creation testifies of a higher power that created all things, and of His attributes which one of them is love for He provided food, and the means to make clothing and shelter, so the world is without excuse, and testifies of the 2 greatest laws, love God, and love people, and love works no ill towards their neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
A person can be saved that has not heard of Jesus if they acknowledged a higher power, and did not offend people, and asked God for forgiveness if they do wrong against people, and ask forgiveness if anything is amiss for they do not have words from this higher power, and by their conscience that testifies of good and evil.
An example is Enoch, Noah, and Job, who was righteous with God before the Old Testament was given.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
These people that are saved cannot dwell with Jesus for they did not know about Him until after the millennial reign of Christ, but can join the saints at that time, for whosoever was not found in the book of life was not saved, for there is no reason to word it like that unless some people could be saved for it did not say they were all thrown in the lake of fire.
If God will judge all people by their works then all people have a chance at salvation whether they heard of Jesus or not.
Rom 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Rom 3:2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
Isa 41:21 Produce your cause, saith the LORD; bring forth your strong reasons, saith the King of Jacob.
Isa 41:22 Let them bring them forth, and shew us what shall happen: let them shew the former things, what they be, that we may consider them, and know the latter end of them; or declare us things for to come.
Isa 41:23 Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye are gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold it together.
Isa 41:24 Behold, ye are of nothing, and your work of nought: an abomination is he that chooseth you.
Isa 41:26 Who hath declared from the beginning, that we may know? and beforetime, that we may say, He is righteous? yea, there is none that sheweth, yea, there is none that declareth, yea, there is none that heareth your words.
Isa 41:28 For I beheld, and there was no man; even among them, and there was no counsellor, that, when I asked of them, could answer a word.
Isa 41:29 Behold, they are all vanity; their works are nothing: their molten images are wind and confusion.
But the saints have an advantage over the people that have not heard for they have the proof of the word of God which God identifies Himself as the one true God by His written word, and has told the saints the beginning from the end, and told the whole history of mankind, which God said no person or religion will be able to do that.
Yes man is a sinner deserving judgement.
It’s also kinda odd that you said “Can A Merciful God Condemn A Man To Hell Who Has Never Heard The Gospel, And Justify Himself In Doing So?”
Why would God need to justify Himself ? God is the very definition of Just .
Also for what reason would God need to offer everyone Grace ( unmerited favor of God toward man) ?
No one is owed grace to start with . The fact is God would be just in never offering grace to anyone.
Blessings
Bill
It’s also kinda odd that you said “Can A Merciful God Condemn A Man To Hell Who Has Never Heard The Gospel, And Justify Himself In Doing So?”
Why would God need to justify Himself ? God is the very definition of Just .
Also for what reason would God need to offer everyone Grace ( unmerited favor of God toward man) ?
No one is owed grace to start with . The fact is God would be just in never offering grace to anyone.
Blessings
Bill
-
2
-
1
- Show all
What they mean as 'fair' is that if God doesn't extend grace to everyone w/o exception, then He is not being fair. That's not fairness at all. If He was fair with us, everyone of us would be doomed to the lake of fair. Fair is getting what we deserve. I don't want that. I want mercy. 
-
1
-
1
- Show all