Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
R

Ruby123

Guest
hate to say i told you so, but i told you so. remember what i called anything outside of the boundaries of the universe according to melach?

i welcome you to finland. we have best weather. also not everything is venomous here. thats nice too
Finland rocks Melach :LOL:
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
I'm staying completely in context. The context is justification. You are the one who jumped out of context and said it's about sanctification.


That is right. That is why Paul is warning the Galatians to not turn to the law of days, and seasons, and times for justification and away from Christ for justification. For if you do, Christ would become of no value to you (in justification--the context of the entire letter).


Then his warning of becoming slaves again (Galatians 4:9) is meaningless. For the context of the letter is justification.
He warns them that the sons of the old covenant (those born of the attempt to be justified through works of the law--days, seasons, etc.) are slaves and that slaves have no part in the inheritance. Only the sons born of the new covenant (born as the result of faith in Christ) have the inheritance. But if they have the promise of the inheritance no matter what, even if they seek justification through the law, then his warning about the sons of the old covenant not having the inheritance is meaningless.


Yes, they are sons born as the result of the new covenant. Don't go back to being sons born as the result of the old covenant and the futile attempt to be justified by the law. Those sons, like Abraham's son Ishmael, have no part in the inheritance. That is his warning to them.

2 Peter 2:19 NIV
"for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved."
Where I jumped it was correct....but yes most of the writing is about grace and law.

He is not stating you are in the new system and if you return to the old system that you will loose your justification.... you are reading that into the text.

They were saved and and they are not loosing there salvation by going back to the law.... when they go back to the law they are mixing law and grace... going back to a system of bondage.

Why do want to be like slaves that had not part in the inheritance... that is his point!

GALATIANS 5.1: "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage."
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
you rock ruby!

tomorrow is friday another sober weekend for me. anyone got any suggestions on what i should do?
Spend time in the scripture and prayer.

Go for two long walks one in the morning and one in the evening and in between get in the kitchen and cook all your meals for the week.

And if you still have time bake a nice cake.:)
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
I hope when I get there my posts will be as colour coded and fanciful as yours.:)
I'm on my way there and all my posts
Where I jumped it was correct....but yes most of the writing is about grace and law.

He is not stating you are in the new system and if you return to the old system that you will loose your justification.... you are reading that into the text.

They were saved and and they are not loosing there salvation by going back to the law.... when they go back to the law they are mixing law and grace... going back to a system of bondage.

Why do want to be like slaves that had not part in the inheritance... that is his point!

GALATIANS 5.1: "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage."
Here it is in context.

Galatians 4:28-5:1-5 NAS
28And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also.


30But what does the Scripture say?
“CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON,
FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN.”


31So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.
1It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.
2Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness.


The flow of thought is unbroken. You can't just pluck vs. 2 out of the passage and decide that Paul suddenly means sanctification in vs. 2 while he means justification before and after vs. 2.

The 'Christ will be of no benefit to you' in vs. 2 in context means Christ is no benefit to you for justification if you go back to the law for justification because that old covenant way of being born produces natural sons who are slaves, slaves who have no inheritance. Faith in Christ produces sons of promise, spiritual sons, who are free and who are in line for the inheritance, eternal life.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
I really appreciate your candor. Thank you for that, and for sharing your experiences with us here.

I'm glad that you made it through all those hard times, you have my respect sir.

To God be the glory.

Maybe one day, we all will be sitting there with Jesus, in paradise, and catch us one of those Steelheads together.

Until then,.......

Happy Thanksgiving friend.
I hope the and pray, the LORD will make me a small cabin at a bend in the river on the Crystal River, as it flows out back of the Throne of Grace. Yes there has to be Steelhead Trout in that RIVER.


It may look similar to this:


Did I ever tell you the true story about our first try to find a Bible Teaching Church, when we were going to a Lutheran Church, in Grand Island, NE. So we went to a Baptist Church just to try their style of teaching out. They had a guest Missionary teach the Sermon, about 35 minutes. As he went to close his sermon, he actually SAID: "The reason I serve the LORD, is because I want the biggest, fanciest mansion on the STREET OF GOLD. I do not want to get stuck we a little cabin out back on the Crystal River." My mouth feel open! As I looked around at the congregation, and NO ONE SEEMED SHOCKED BY HIS STATEMENT. Since when is GREED a reason to SERVE THE LORD? As we walked to the Car, I knew I would never be back, and said to my wife, "I do not care what he said, if the Lord wants to give me a small cabin on that River, I will take it. Because I just want to be there in heaven with the LORD!"

I really do miss my wife, she went to heaven to be with the LORD, on 2 Nov., 2015, after a heart attack in Recovery Center.

I wish I could remember those conversations with you. Now I have no idea how many of those kind of posts with others, are still gone.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE!

1574965631544.jpeg

1 Thessalonians 5:18 (KJV)
18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

 
Sep 6, 2014
7,034
5,435
113
I hope the and pray, the LORD will make me a small cabin at a bend in the river on the Crystal River, as it flows out back of the Throne of Grace. Yes there has to be Steelhead Trout in that RIVER.


It may look similar to this:


Did I ever tell you the true story about our first try to find a Bible Teaching Church, when we were going to a Lutheran Church, in Grand Island, NE. So we went to a Baptist Church just to try their style of teaching out. They had a guest Missionary teach the Sermon, about 35 minutes. As he went to close his sermon, he actually SAID: "The reason I serve the LORD, is because I want the biggest, fanciest mansion on the STREET OF GOLD. I do not want to get stuck we a little cabin out back on the Crystal River." My mouth feel open! As I looked around at the congregation, and NO ONE SEEMED SHOCKED BY HIS STATEMENT. Since when is GREED a reason to SERVE THE LORD? As we walked to the Car, I knew I would never be back, and said to my wife, "I do not care what he said, if the Lord wants to give me a small cabin on that River, I will take it. Because I just want to be there in heaven with the LORD!"

I really do miss my wife, she went to heaven to be with the LORD, on 2 Nov., 2015, after a heart attack in Recovery Center.

I wish I could remember those conversations with you. Now I have no idea how many of those kind of posts with others, are still gone.
I don't recall hearing about that. Thanks for sharing that experience and by the way, I don't blame you for walking out of that place.
If the Lord wants to give you a small cabin on that River who's to say any different. I'm with you there brother.

Sorry about the wife, but you and I know, you will see her there with Jesus, and all this time here will seem to have been but a moment once we get there.

No worries about our past conversations, we are right back on track today and that's fine with me. As far as other friends you had before those tough days, and the conversations you had with them. I'm sure they feel the same way.
You're alright in my book brother, and I'm glad to have my old friend back.

Talking with you here really made my day and gives me one more thing to be thankful to God in Christ Jesus for.

Glad to have you back friend :)
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
I don't recall hearing about that. Thanks for sharing that experience and by the way, I don't blame you for walking out of that place.
If the Lord wants to give you a small cabin on that River who's to say any different. I'm with you there brother.

Sorry about the wife, but you and I know, you will see her there with Jesus, and all this time here will seem to have been but a moment once we get there.

No worries about our past conversations, we are right back on track today and that's fine with me. As far as other friends you had before those tough days, and the conversations you had with them. I'm sure they feel the same way.
You're alright in my book brother, and I'm glad to have my old friend back.

Talking with you here really made my day and gives me one more thing to be thankful to God in Christ Jesus for.

Glad to have you back friend :)

SAME HERE! I also found a slight typo in the Post about the Baptist Missionary from Africa. My mouth FELL open. I was totally shocked that GREED was the only reason he served on the Mission field. I think he will have a big shock in store for him, even if he is saved, which I doubt, but that wood will be burned up in the fire that tests our works, to see if they are worthy of a heavenly reward. Had he said it at the beginning of his Sermon, I would have immediately walked out.

Yes my wife and I were Married for over 36 years, and I am thank for that. Glad you were patient enough with me to try to stir my memory.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
2,062
1,527
113
Spend time in the scripture and prayer.

Go for two long walks one in the morning and one in the evening and in between get in the kitchen and cook all your meals for the week.

And if you still have time bake a nice cake.:)
i can pray and read bible and do long walks i will do that actually

im that kind of guy i cant cook. in my family we are very traditional when it comes for that. its actually a joke from my grandfather side his father said to his wife and they were present: "you know i have never in my life broken any dishes..." and his wife answered "its cause you've never washed the dishes" hahaha sounds like movie but its true story.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
2,062
1,527
113
How is it that you cannot grasp the truth that there is but one gospel of salvation that actually has power to save....Galatians as well as other books and verses quite clearly show that when ONE embellishes the CORRECT message with any of the following things, it will VOID the gospel and render it inoperative....no power to save....

Faith plus ANY OF THE FOLLOWING to gain, keep, top off, embellish or finish salvation (as a gospel message) will render the message invalid with no power to save.

Works of any flavor
Law Keeping
Immersion <-correct mode of baptism
Church sacraments
Sabbath keeping
Religious hoop jumping
Communion
Giving a tithe
Sprinkling <- not valid as baptism
Anything we do or DO NOT DO

Biblical salvation is 100% faith into the finished work of Christ. It is based on his power, his work, his promises, and it is eternally given as a free gift and is irrevocable.

When MEN corrupt it by ADDING their own religious hoop jumping they VOID IT and it is rendered INOPERATIVE.

That is why the above are getting raked over the coals...When they say YOU MUST DO THIS OR THAT TO GET SAVED OR REMAIN SAVED (OTHER THAN FAITH) THEY have devalued and voided the gospel!
when i got baptized they first made me wait many weeks and make me attend church for some time, they also wanted to hear my testimony on the pulpet. thats very unbiblical. st.peter baptized all those people right away no church attendance time. also the ethiopian eunuch got baptized right away just asked "do you believe in Jesus?" he say yes, well whats preventing us from baptizing this man lets go.

baptism and believe are done in same sequence in bible.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
i can pray and read bible and do long walks i will do that actually

im that kind of guy i cant cook. in my family we are very traditional when it comes for that. its actually a joke from my grandfather side his father said to his wife and they were present: "you know i have never in my life broken any dishes..." and his wife answered "its cause you've never washed the dishes" hahaha sounds like movie but its true story.
Well you don't know what you missing... cooking, trying new recipes, baking so much fun.

Okay then you need to get involved in volunteer work.

I will admit is has been a few years since I did that but it is very rewarding.... soup kitchens, nursing homes, hospitals the are so many places.

I volunteered at a nursing home once, serving drinks at a cash bar :D, they would come over and tell me their life story and it was just so much fun and they need people to talk to.
So important in life to stretch yourself and do new things otherwise you will become isolated and drink.:(
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
I'm on my way there and all my posts

Here it is in context.

Galatians 4:28-5:1-5 NAS
28And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also.


30But what does the Scripture say?
“CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON,
FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN.”


31So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.
1It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.
2Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness.


The flow of thought is unbroken. You can't just pluck vs. 2 out of the passage and decide that Paul suddenly means sanctification in vs. 2 while he means justification before and after vs. 2.

The 'Christ will be of no benefit to you' in vs. 2 in context means Christ is no benefit to you for justification if you go back to the law for justification because that old covenant way of being born produces natural sons who are slaves, slaves who have no inheritance. Faith in Christ produces sons of promise, spiritual sons, who are free and who are in line for the inheritance, eternal life.
They are justified, fait accompli..............it is not a process.... that is my point and if Paul is telling them to stand fast in their liberty then he speaking to the resulting effect of justification.

I stand by my point, we cannot live out our positional sanctification unless we are living in the liberty the Christ gives us.
The two are connected.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Then why are believers who keep the law condemned to hell by people in this forum? You say believers can not lose their salvation and go to hell for any reason, but when a believer says they keep the law of Festivals and Sabbaths they immediately get condemned to hell for trying to be justified by the law, yet you say the believers at Galatia can not lose their salvation for doing that and only lose God's favor within salvation.
I already answered this question....it goes to the root...the people you cite have believed into a mixed gospel of faith PLUS <--THIS, THESE gospels do not have the power to save because they have been corrupted by the additions and embellishments beyind faith!

when i got baptized they first made me wait many weeks and make me attend church for some time, they also wanted to hear my testimony on the pulpet. thats very unbiblical. st.peter baptized all those people right away no church attendance time. also the ethiopian eunuch got baptized right away just asked "do you believe in Jesus?" he say yes, well whats preventing us from baptizing this man lets go.

baptism and believe are done in same sequence in bible.
This came about due to the words of John the Dipper....Many churches follow this pattern...John told the people to bring forth fruit worthy of repentance before he would immerse them......just a point to ponder my friend and brother!
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
They are justified, fait accompli..............it is not a process.... that is my point
Correct.
Justification is not a process.
Either you are, or you aren't.
The context is not about the process of growing in sanctification.
The context is about what can and can't justify a person.


and if Paul is telling them to stand fast in their liberty then he speaking to the resulting effect of justification.

I stand by my point, we cannot live out our positional sanctification unless we are living in the liberty the Christ gives us.
The two are connected.
Galatians 5:2 NAS
2Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you."


Circumcision for justification causes Christ to be of no benefit to you in justification. You are either trusting in Christ for a declaration of righteousness, or you are trusting in works of the law for justification. They are mutually exclusive. The one negates the other. This is not about circumcision/works of the law making it so Christ is no benefit to you in growing in sanctification.
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
...the people you cite have believed into a mixed gospel of faith PLUS <--THIS, THESE gospels do not have the power to save because they have been corrupted by the additions and embellishments beyind faith!
So why is the Galatians 'faith PLUS <--THIS' gospel able to save them but it can't save posters in this forum? That's all I'm asking you to explain.
 
R

Ruby123

Guest
you rock ruby!

tomorrow is friday another sober weekend for me. anyone got any suggestions on what i should do?


Lol thanks Melach:LOL::LOL:

Maybe you can bake some christmas cakes and post them to all your friends on CC around the world. That will keep you busy until christmas. Can I have one like the pic below ;)