Which gospel?

[Judges1318]

I was raised in church and a Christian family. I "accepted Jesus in to my heart" at the tender age of 5 and was baptized in water at the age of 8. I was a "good" boy all around - assured of having my sins forgiven and that I was going to Heaven because of what Jesus had done for me and because, of course, I believed in Him. Why else do you think we would go to church?
Well, puberty rolled around and I found my thrill. I was lost in lust though my church attendance never dwindled. Addicted to pornography, masturbation and fornication everyone still saw a nice young believer in Christ. When suddenly, God sovereignly put a passionate desire in me for His Word on 3/4/96 during my sophomore year in college and I began to see glorious and at times terrifying things that I never heard in all my years in church. One of the first things I saw was that I wasn't free to go on in my sins, not by trying not to but by faith. This ultimately brought me to the precipice of suicide by the fall of '99 cause I just could not stop. Well, thank God that I was a part of a fellowship that understood that Jesus said we would cast out demons and that's what they did with me. Now, no longer under compulsion, I was free to appropriate by faith what Jesus had done for me and on 2/20/2000 I was baptized in water and received the circumcision of my heart, as we see in Colossians 2. I might add, God showed up at that service and 300 people simultaneously began crying when I came up out of the water because of His presence. It was powerful. So then, the Lord Jesus began to reveal His Kingdom to me. I was baptized with the Holy Spirit and began waiting upon Him all the day. Jesus actually became Lord over my life and I was free to offer myself to Him as a living sacrifice. His Sabbath-Rest has been glorious for me and my family and He truly is the Prince of Peace. "The sons of God are those who are being led by the Spirit of God," Romans 8:14, and as is previously stated in that chapter, He has taken me from a life lived based on my soul (what I want, think and feel) to a life directed by His Spirit and not according to the sinful nature. We have to deny our souls, take up our cross and follow Him. David said in Psalm 16, "I have set the Lord before me continually". In religion, I had the language of following Jesus but not the reality. I was what the Bible refers to as a mocker. The Greek word for an actor is (basically) hypocrite.
Part of becoming a disciple of Jesus Christ is that the church no longer accepts me if I state any of this. It's ok if I keep my mouth shut but if I begin to state things like the Greek word translated as "forgiveness" in our New Testaments is the Greek word "aphesis" which means freedom, leadership begins to frown, especially when Jesus said that everyone who sins is a slave of sin and that a slave has not permanent place in the household but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free you are free indeed.
I did not believe the Gospel of the Kingdom, the one Jesus preached, when I was growing up. But I did believe "a" gospel. And if you want to get to the root of it, you have to go all the way back to Genesis 3. Satan has never had to change his tactics because they have always worked: "Did God really say that?" "You shall not surely die." "You shall be like Him" and you are also going to disobey Him the whole way. Religion had told me that I was always going to be a rebel against God and remain in sin but also that when I see Him I would be like Him for I would see Him as He is. Furthermore, religion had taught me nothing about the Kingdom of God. I thought that just meant heaven. I didn't know it meant the Way Jesus walked, from above the sun. 1 John 2 reveals to us that we must walk as Jesus walked and He confessed that He did nothing on His own initiative but only what the Father told Him. So the first "gospel" I believed in didn't require my death and resurrection in to a new life. See Romans 6 about the death. We must be born of water and the Spirit. It was formerly hidden from my eyes that the 4 gospels explicitly state that Jesus came to baptize us with the Holy Spirit - that's how John introduces Him and if you are a student of Scripture you know you need to take special attention when God starts repeating things as He does with "If you eye causes you to sin, gouge it out for it is better for you to enter life having one eye than having 2 eyes and be cast in to Hell" which He repeats in Matthew. See, that formerly didn't make any sense to me when I believed the contemporary American version of the gospel.
So when I hear people say "the gospel" in this 21st century, I tend to cringe because I know it is not likely that it is the Gospel of the Kingdom but rather the one I believed growing up. I was left in my sins, left in Egypt. Pharoah still had me in bondage. I had no idea what the pillar of cloud and of fire signified in my life and thought the Promised Land was heaven. (Not sure how the Philistines and all the 'ites would be there, but we didn't think about that.) Anyway, we desperately need a revolution. There is a different gospel, just as Paul stated in 2 Cor. 11, and frightfully, it is accompanied by a different Jesus and spirit. My Jesus when I was growing up never would have done that to Ananias and Sapphira and there was certainly no danger of Him ever vomiting me out of His mouth. I had the gentle Jesus, meek and mild.
Because the Gospel of the Kingdom is different from the modern gospel in this country, my family and I are not welcome in church and that's not right. A modern gospel has caused the salt to lose its savor and the meat is rotting. We do not need to point our fingers at the world. We need to point them at ourselves and repent and lose our religious prejudices and humbly accept what is written. It took me a while to lose my religion. It had a power and I could not see. The Bible was closed to me and hard and my life was messy. Jesus was not head over all things to me. I was. And I make a terrible god. "No one who is born of God sins but He who was born of God keeps him and the Evil One does not touch him." The Bible isn't complicated. Religion is and the world is reeling.

This is similar to my journey to truth and the true, unseen church, too.

It amazed me right after being born again how there was this secret world of the Spirit and the true church of true believers that the visible church in the world knows nothing about.

After all these years of hoping to open the eyes of the church as a whole to the profound truths and and life of the Spirit I've accepted the fact that it's not going to happen. As you point out, the way is narrow and not many find it. It's just the way it is. It's impossible to make what you now know the official experience of the church.

True Christianity is the loneliest road there is.

 

[RebuildJesussChurch]

The will of the Father is to BELIEVE on Him whom he sent...!! And Peter does not use the word hard.......he said if the RIGHTEOUS scarcely be saved.....one cannot twist the word to fit their own personal narrative!

I don't twist the Word nor do I have a personal narrative. The Spirit of holiness has a gorgeous, everlasting narrative. Have a blessed day!

 

[RebuildJesussChurch]

This is similar to my journey to truth and the true, unseen church, too.

It amazed me right after being born again how there was this secret world of the Spirit and the true church of true believers that the visible church in the world knows nothing about.

After all these years of hoping to open the eyes of the church as a whole to the profound truths and and life of the Spirit I've accepted the fact that it's not going to happen. As you point out, the way is narrow and not many find it. It's just the way it is. It's impossible to make what you now know the official experience of the church.

True Christianity is the loneliest road there is.

Well said. He will bring everything to light in that Day. Come Lord Jesus!

 

[selfdissolving]

You seem to misunderstand my meaning when I say "Which gospel?" Of course I know that there is truly only one. But it is not so in the minds and hearts of men within religion - or from the pulpits. It seems your #3 belies that you do not understand the Gospel as a change of government, even though you have some fine sounding doctrines. We pass from under Satan to under God through repentance, baptism in water, through the cross and our faith in His substitutionary sacrifice, through His resurrection, through His being enthroned at the Father's right hand and through the pouring out of the Holy Spirit, though the glory has departed to a great degree from the church as it did from Israel. The Gospel is our death to sin through faith and baptism - He has promised to circumcise our hearts. We come in to a new Way of life where Jesus is enthroned in our lives as Lord and we learn to walk as He did: no longer from under the sun but from above it, through the Person of the Holy Spirit. And since we are disciple of Jesus Christ, we have not only denied our souls and given up our lives, we also abide in His Word in that Psalm 1 kind of way and in that zealous Psalm 119 way. Believing the Bible, I'm sure you agree.

I can't quite put my finger on it, but something about what your saying is "off".

 

[garee]

I repented was baptized and Jesus purified my heart by faith. He has now become Lord of my life. He and the Father are in heaven - His Spirit is here with us. The obedience of faith is beautiful. Hearkening unto His voice - living on every Word which proceeds from His mouth. When a man's face shines with the glory of God, it is attestation. God's free to move as He pleases and to perform acts through His chosen, according to the Scriptures. Pharisees will always mock until one day their mouths are shut. Jesus Christ is Lord and coming again. Those who belong to Him have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Praise the Lord! Freedom (aphesis) from sins.. by faith, the gift of God.

Repentance is a work of Christ's faith. It comes by God purifying ones heart as the baptism of the Holy Spirit a work he performs .It is not accomplished by getting wet. No confirming signs.

Water as a ceremonial law used when a new Priest has a desire to enter the ministry. No sign of confirmation .Just a new heart that desires to serve.

 

[mailmandan]

The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

The gospel is a message of grace to be received through faith. The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of good works to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation. Also, faith is not without repentance. (Acts 20:21)

 

[RebuildJesussChurch]

Repentance is a work of Christ's faith. It comes by God purifying ones heart as the baptism of the Holy Spirit a work he performs .It is not accomplished by getting wet. No confirming signs.

Water as a ceremonial law used when a new Priest has a desire to enter the ministry. No sign of confirmation .Just a new heart that desires to serve.

Funny how the Ethiopian eunuch instantly responded to Philip preaching Jesus to him: "Look, here is water. What prevents me from being baptized?" Hardly the response to the message nowadays. And Peter's response to what occurred in Cornelius' house: "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water?" The early church had it clear and had in the foundation. We are to go in to all the world immersing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. We are to observe everything Jesus taught them and He left no program for change until the end of the age. Whoever believes and is baptized shall be saved. Romans 6 is so powerful - our passing through the Red Sea! And the Colossians 2 experience of being buried, circumcised and raised! Amen. I've seen lives of those who oppose this these many centuries later. Wisdom is always vindicated by her deeds, by her children. I think of one such aquaintance of mine. He can just never get free from alcohol or lust. He can't get separated from Egypt and that army continually overwhelms him. It's tragic.

 

[NayborBear]

Nice testimony man! And welcome to CC!

I wouldn't become too distraught concerning the church y'all usedta go to.

In the same vein? I wouldn't become too distraught by others who (how can I say) "sell themselves short", on "moving beyond the "principle doctrines of Christ" towards "Spiritual maturity", by never leaving the "principle doctrines of Christ!"
Ezekiel 13
21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:
23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

I like to give those I've just described, the "benefit of the doubt", so to speak.
Because that's what forgiveness is all about, isn't it?

As you've noticed? There are some in here not so forgiving.
It's like they don't know what they don't know, and (some) "know" that they don't wanna know, what they don't know.

To the point, where some (ahem) "discussions(?)" can become quite heated!

Spiritual maturity, is a "bridge too far!" (can you say perma-milky's?)

Jez a bit of helpful advice for ya?

Perhaps, after writing out a response, go back and "edit" it, by "breaking it up", so as to not be just 1 long "wall of text."

Unlike in "days of old", there's plenty of "paper!"

Again welcome!

I have to agree with Judges1318, being a "true Christian", pressing on to the high calling of God, in Christ is a lonely road.

 

[John146]

Funny how the Ethiopian eunuch instantly responded to Philip preaching Jesus to him: "Look, here is water. What prevents me from being baptized?" Hardly the response to the message nowadays. And Peter's response to what occurred in Cornelius' house: "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water?" The early church had it clear and had in the foundation. We are to go in to all the world immersing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. We are to observe everything Jesus taught them and He left no program for change until the end of the age. Whoever believes and is baptized shall be saved. Romans 6 is so powerful - our passing through the Red Sea! And the Colossians 2 experience of being buried, circumcised and raised! Amen. I've seen lives of those who oppose this these many centuries later. Wisdom is always vindicated by her deeds, by her children. I think of one such aquaintance of mine. He can just never get free from alcohol or lust. He can't get separated from Egypt and that army continually overwhelms him. It's tragic.

As the Colossians passage is spiritual circumcision, so too is the baptism in Romans 6. The believer is baptized into Christ’s body, no water present. Never get Church doctrine from the book of Acts. It is a transition book from Jew to Gentile.

 

[RebuildJesussChurch]

Nice testimony man! And welcome to CC!

I wouldn't become too distraught concerning the church y'all usedta go to.

In the same vein? I wouldn't become too distraught by others who (how can I say) "sell themselves short", on "moving beyond the "principle doctrines of Christ" towards "Spiritual maturity", by never leaving the "principle doctrines of Christ!"
Ezekiel 13
21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:
23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

I like to give those I've just described, the "benefit of the doubt", so to speak.
Because that's what forgiveness is all about, isn't it?

As you've noticed? There are some in here not so forgiving.
It's like they don't know what they don't know, and (some) "know" that they don't wanna know, what they don't know.

To the point, where some (ahem) "discussions(?)" can become quite heated!

Spiritual maturity, is a "bridge too far!" (can you say perma-milky's?)

Jez a bit of helpful advice for ya?

Perhaps, after writing out a response, go back and "edit" it, by "breaking it up", so as to not be just 1 long "wall of text."

Unlike in "days of old", there's plenty of "paper!"

Again welcome!

I have to agree with Judges1318, being a "true Christian", pressing on to the high calling of God, in Christ is a lonely road.

Thank you for the encouragement and spot on evaluation. That Ezekiel passage has meant so much over the years thank you! I think I’ll always be a wall of text guy though.

 

[RebuildJesussChurch]

As the Colossians passage is spiritual circumcision, so too is the baptism in Romans 6. The believer is baptized into Christ’s body, no water present. Never get Church doctrine from the book of Acts. It is a transition book from Jew to Gentile.

The alcoholic I mentioned previously believes that too. He has strong doctrinal prejudices preventing him from receiving just simply what the Bible says. I’m glad I’m not as smart as a theologian.

 

[Judges1318]

The alcoholic I mentioned previously believes that too. He has strong doctrinal prejudices preventing him from receiving just simply what the Bible says. I’m glad I’m not as smart as a theologian.

I, personally, probably would have gone back to unbelief and my old life if I had not obeyed Jesus' command to be water baptized. Thank God for my first pastor who faithfully taught those in his care to obey the command to be water baptized. It's the push out of the nest that every believer needs. Secret, non-vocal, inactive Christians have an uphill battle against the temptation to turn back to Egypt. That resistance evaporated when I got water baptized.

I just want to thank God, on this fitting day to do so, for my first pastor who did just the opposite of the post you're replying to and taught the book of Acts as present day, relative theology! Thank you, God! And God bless that pastor and his family on this special day. He got me started on an eternity of life and joy.

 

[Judges1318]

I think I’ll always be a wall of text guy though.

Me, too, but I learned it's helpful to put spaces between every three lines or so. And I'm learning how to be succinct (brief and to the point). The more I share, the more that happens.

 

[RebuildJesussChurch]

I, personally, probably would have gone back to unbelief and my old life if I had not obeyed Jesus' command to be water baptized. Thank God for my first pastor who faithfully taught those in his care to obey the command to be water baptized. It's the push out of the nest that every believer needs. Secret, non-vocal, inactive Christians have an uphill battle against the temptation to turn back to Egypt. That resistance evaporated when I got water baptized.

I just want to thank God, on this fitting day to do so, for my first pastor who did just the opposite of the post you're replying to and taught the book of Acts as present day, relative theology! Thank you, God! And God bless that pastor and his family on this special day. He got me started on an eternity of life and joy.

That is beautiful. Praise the Lord!

I, personally, probably would have gone back to unbelief and my old life if I had not obeyed Jesus' command to be water baptized. Thank God for my first pastor who faithfully taught those in his care to obey the command to be water baptized. It's the push out of the nest that every believer needs. Secret, non-vocal, inactive Christians have an uphill battle against the temptation to turn back to Egypt. That resistance evaporated when I got water baptized.

I just want to thank God, on this fitting day to do so, for my first pastor who did just the opposite of the post you're replying to and taught the book of Acts as present day, relative theology! Thank you, God! And God bless that pastor and his family on this special day. He got me started on an eternity of life and joy.

Beautiful. Praise the Lord!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I, personally, probably would have gone back to unbelief and my old life if I had not obeyed Jesus' command to be water baptized. Thank God for my first pastor who faithfully taught those in his care to obey the command to be water baptized. It's the push out of the nest that every believer needs. Secret, non-vocal, inactive Christians have an uphill battle against the temptation to turn back to Egypt. That resistance evaporated when I got water baptized.

I just want to thank God, on this fitting day to do so, for my first pastor who did just the opposite of the post you're replying to and taught the book of Acts as present day, relative theology! Thank you, God! And God bless that pastor and his family on this special day. He got me started on an eternity of life and joy.

That’s sad

my life changed when I got on my knees and cried out for gods mercy and he made me his child

my baptism a year and a half later was special. But could never change my life as my life was changed the day the Holy Spirit baptized and sealed me until the day of redemption and took residence in my heart.

 

[NayborBear]

Thank you for the encouragement and spot on evaluation. That Ezekiel passage has meant so much over the years thank you! I think I’ll always be a wall of text guy though.

Hadn't ever heard of this Derek Prince guy before. But, tis nothing really new, to me anyways. Hadn't heard of John Calvin either, or a lot of other people, before I found a forum where I could testify what God had done, and not get booted out of for saying so.

Not saying people don't get booted outta here either. And, am certain there are posters in here as you, I and a few others speak, that couldn't be happier, if they no longer had to "deal" with people like us.

Way I see it? It's people like them, that have made "the Church", into what it has become today. Mass producing perma-milked cookie cutter Christians? Isn't "getting it done!"

And it's not the ones who "can't" see it. That chaffs my hide. It's the ones who "won't" see it, and teach others that there is no need to "see" it. Who do!

As if, there's "no there there!"

 

[RebuildJesussChurch]

Hadn't ever heard of this Derek Prince guy before. But, tis nothing really new, to me anyways. Hadn't heard of John Calvin either, or a lot of other people, before I found a forum where I could testify what God had done, and not get booted out of for saying so.

Not saying people don't get booted outta here either. And, am certain there are posters in here as you, I and a few others speak, that couldn't be happier, if they no longer had to "deal" with people like us.

Way I see it? It's people like them, that have made "the Church", into what it has become today. Mass producing perma-milked cookie cutter Christians? Isn't "getting it done!"

And it's not the ones who "can't" see it. That chaffs my hide. It's the ones who "won't" see it, and teach others that there is no need to "see" it. Who do!

As if, there's "no there there!"

True. The opposition to Jesus has always been primarily from the religious.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

when someone gives you a thumbs down for praising the work of God on the moment of adopting you into his family, and filling you with his spirit, you know something is seriously wrong

 

[eternally-gratefull]

True. The opposition to Jesus has always been primarily from the religious.

This I can agree,

they want to replace jesus with religion, and somehow think this is what God wants

 

[Judges1318]

That’s sad

my life changed when I got on my knees and cried out for gods mercy and he made me his child

my baptism a year and a half later was special. But could never change my life as my life was changed the day the Holy Spirit baptized and sealed me until the day of redemption and took residence in my heart.

My life changed, too, the day I asked God to forgive me. It was clear to me that I was a new creation. Time had started all over for me. It was a brand new day from which I would reckon time. But I had little power. I didn't get that until after water baptism.