Dr. Fiona Hill refutes GOP conspiracy theories.

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E

EleventhHour

Guest
#21
What a Joke!

SHE, and Obama withheld funds to Ukraine, and military aid, resulting in the Russian invasion and annexation of Crimea, beginnings of invasion in the rest of Ukraine, and the murder of almost 300 people by a Russian missile hitting a plane over Ukraine.

So she withheld aid Trump GAVE the aid to Ukraine, and HE'S under investigation?! I know there are tons of what Lenin termed "useful idiots" out there, but how people can remain so willfully ignorant is beyond me.
I only ask this because as you well know there is no mainstream media that is a trustworthy, objective, unbiased news source like they were meant to be.

so it is to the printing

press to the recorder of man's deeds the

keeper of his conscience the courier of

his news that we look for strength and

assistance confident that with your help

man will be what he was born to be free

and independent.

John F. Kennedy


Sad eh... how far from that we are.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,573
9,092
113
#22
I only ask this because as you well know there is no mainstream media that is a trustworthy, objective, unbiased news source like they were meant to be.

so it is to the printing

press to the recorder of man's deeds the

keeper of his conscience the courier of

his news that we look for strength and

assistance confident that with your help

man will be what he was born to be free

and independent.

John F. Kennedy


Sad eh... how far from that we are.
Try using Google or Google controlled Youtube to look up Fiona Hill changing her mind. The 1st 100 or more Youtube results are ALL from leftwing news sites that don't even give you what you asked for. These MONOPOLIES MUST BE BROKEN UP!

I did manage to find a Foxnews article on it, but I SAW her say it that day!

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fi...ng-lethal-aid-to-ukraine-in-fight-with-russia
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#23
Try using Google or Google controlled Youtube to look up Fiona Hill changing her mind. The 1st 100 or more Youtube results are ALL from leftwing news sites that don't even give you what you asked for. These MONOPOLIES MUST BE BROKEN UP!

I did manage to find a Foxnews article on it, but I SAW her say it that day!

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fi...ng-lethal-aid-to-ukraine-in-fight-with-russia
LOL and fyi .... I trust no one..

But I do try to find source material and stick to the facts.
I agree Obama should have never been in office and Hilary Clinton should have been held accountable for Benghazi which to this day still upsets me.

For those on the right of the spectrum we need to stick to the facts (speaking in general here) otherwise we are no different than the left.

Embassy of the United States Kyiv, Ukraine, March 25, 2015

Today the first 10 armored Humvees for Ukraine arrived from the United States! In a ceremony at Boryspil Airport with U.S. Chargé d'Affaires Bruce Donahue, President Poroshenko thanked the United States for its ongoing assistance and promised that Ukrainian soldiers would make good use of the vehicles. In the next week, two more shipments of armored Humvees from the United States, for a total of 30, will arrive in Ukraine. The United States has committed more than $120 million in security assistance for Ukraine to date, and has additionally promised 230 Humvees in total, as well as $75 million worth of equipment including UAVs, counter-mortar radars, night vision devices, and medical supplies.

Defense Security Cooperation Agency

More than blankets was sent.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,573
9,092
113
#24
LOL and fyi .... I trust no one..

But I do try to find source material and stick to the facts.
I agree Obama should have never been in office and Hilary Clinton should have been held accountable for Benghazi which to this day still upsets me.

For those on the right of the spectrum we need to stick to the facts (speaking in general here) otherwise we are no different than the left.

Embassy of the United States Kyiv, Ukraine, March 25, 2015

Today the first 10 armored Humvees for Ukraine arrived from the United States! In a ceremony at Boryspil Airport with U.S. Chargé d'Affaires Bruce Donahue, President Poroshenko thanked the United States for its ongoing assistance and promised that Ukrainian soldiers would make good use of the vehicles. In the next week, two more shipments of armored Humvees from the United States, for a total of 30, will arrive in Ukraine. The United States has committed more than $120 million in security assistance for Ukraine to date, and has additionally promised 230 Humvees in total, as well as $75 million worth of equipment including UAVs, counter-mortar radars, night vision devices, and medical supplies.

Defense Security Cooperation Agency

More than blankets was sent.
Well here it is out of the horses mouth herself in 2015. You don't find it MORE than a little suspicious that she "changed her mind" when Trump became President? This from WAPO:

By Fiona Hill and
Clifford Gaddy
February 5, 2015

Fiona Hill is the director of the Center on the United States and Europe at the Brookings Institution. Clifford Gaddy is a senior fellow in the center. They are co-authors of the book “Mr. Putin: Operative in the Kremlin.”
The United States is on a dangerous trajectory in its relations with Russia, a nuclear superpower that believes itself to be under direct threat. Several former U.S. officials and top think-tank experts released a report calling on the West to provide military support to Ukraine. (Two of them, our colleagues at the Brookings Institution, expanded on the report a week ago on this page [“Ukraine needs the West’s help now”].) The logic of sending weapons to Ukraine seems straightforward and is the same as the logic for economic sanctions: to change Vladimir Putin’s “calculus.” Increasing the Ukrainian army’s fighting capacity, the thinking goes, would allow it to kill more rebels and Russian soldiers, generating a backlash in Russia and ultimately forcing the Russian president to the negotiating table.

We strongly disagree. The evidence points in a different direction. If we follow the recommendations of this report, the Ukrainians won’t be the only ones caught in an escalating military conflict with Russia.

In the jargon of geopolitics, Putin enjoys “escalation dominance” in Ukraine: Whatever move we make, he can match it and go further. In August, when it looked as though Ukraine might rout the rebels, Putin increased the stakes and countered the Ukrainian military. Drawing on those lessons, some Russian security analysts are now pushing for a preemptive invasion of Ukraine, arguing that Russia should go all the way to Kiev before the West takes further action. One recent such plan suggested that Moscow was losing momentum in the conflict and should not waste more time on fruitless negotiations. The Western press coverage of the issue of lethal weapons can only convince those in Moscow pushing “full war and invasion now” that their approach is correct.

We also must consider the effect that arming Ukraine would have on our European allies. The report has created an uproar in Berlin and other European capitals, stoking concern that the Obama administration will take steps others are not ready for. If Putin concludes that transatlantic unity can be shattered, with the United States facing the possibility of going it alone in Ukraine, why would he change course?


Our problem is that we do not fully understand Putin’s calculus, just as he does not understand ours. In Putin’s view, the United States, the European Union and NATO have launched an economic and proxy war in Ukraine to weaken Russia and push it into a corner. As Valery Gerasimov, chief of staff of the Russian armed forces, has underscored, this is a hybrid, 21st-century conflict, in which financial sanctions, support for oppositional political movements and propaganda have all been transformed from diplomatic tools to instruments of war. Putin likely believes that any concession or compromise he makes will encourage the West to push further.

Anyone who argues that Putin’s wartime rhetoric is a bluff is making a very risky assumption. We should bear in mind the wars that Putin has waged in Chechnya and Georgia. Before Putin came to power, during the first Chechnya war, the Russian military collapsed, the people balked and President Boris Yeltsin’s government negotiated with the Chechens. In the second war, Putin put his intelligence service in charge and convinced Russians that the sacrifices were worth it. The war was brutal, and the military and civilian casualties high; there were no negotiations. Then, in 2008, Putin called NATO’s bluff on Georgia. Some reasoned that, if Putin knew Georgia would eventually become part of the alliance, he would refrain from moving against it militarily. But the West wasn’t prepared to fight for Georgia, and Putin was.

Since Georgia, Putin has prepared the Russian military to fight a regional war behind the ultimate shield of Russia’s nuclear arsenal. And he has spent a great deal of time and money telling his people that he is defending the Russian nation in Ukraine. His past actions suggest he will do everything he can to convince them that Russian military sacrifices in Ukraine are worth the cost. The delivery of lethal U.S. weapons to Ukraine would help Putin make that case. They will be part of the proof he needs.

We face a huge challenge in devising a strategy to deal with Russia that does not fuel this escalatory cycle and puts Ukraine on another path. We also need to draw bright lines around transatlantic unity and work to preserve it. It is hard to find effective alternatives to the current sanctions policy, but if we plunge headlong into sending weapons, we may lose our allies, and we may never have the opportunity to get things right.
 

Ghoti2

Well-known member
Nov 8, 2019
469
283
63
#25
LOL and fyi .... I trust no one..

But I do try to find source material and stick to the facts.
I agree Obama should have never been in office and Hilary Clinton should have been held accountable for Benghazi which to this day still upsets me.

For those on the right of the spectrum we need to stick to the facts (speaking in general here) otherwise we are no different than the left.

Embassy of the United States Kyiv, Ukraine, March 25, 2015

Today the first 10 armored Humvees for Ukraine arrived from the United States! In a ceremony at Boryspil Airport with U.S. Chargé d'Affaires Bruce Donahue, President Poroshenko thanked the United States for its ongoing assistance and promised that Ukrainian soldiers would make good use of the vehicles. In the next week, two more shipments of armored Humvees from the United States, for a total of 30, will arrive in Ukraine. The United States has committed more than $120 million in security assistance for Ukraine to date, and has additionally promised 230 Humvees in total, as well as $75 million worth of equipment including UAVs, counter-mortar radars, night vision devices, and medical supplies.

Defense Security Cooperation Agency

More than blankets was sent.
Yes, more than blankets. But I think the poorly advised "blanket" rhetoric was intended to point out that any LETHAL assistance was deliberately not offered.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#26
Well here it is out of the horses mouth herself in 2015. You don't find it MORE than a little suspicious that she "changed her mind" when Trump became President? This from WAPO:

By Fiona Hill and
Clifford Gaddy
February 5, 2015

Fiona Hill is the director of the Center on the United States and Europe at the Brookings Institution. Clifford Gaddy is a senior fellow in the center. They are co-authors of the book “Mr. Putin: Operative in the Kremlin.”
The United States is on a dangerous trajectory in its relations with Russia, a nuclear superpower that believes itself to be under direct threat. Several former U.S. officials and top think-tank experts released a report calling on the West to provide military support to Ukraine. (Two of them, our colleagues at the Brookings Institution, expanded on the report a week ago on this page [“Ukraine needs the West’s help now”].) The logic of sending weapons to Ukraine seems straightforward and is the same as the logic for economic sanctions: to change Vladimir Putin’s “calculus.” Increasing the Ukrainian army’s fighting capacity, the thinking goes, would allow it to kill more rebels and Russian soldiers, generating a backlash in Russia and ultimately forcing the Russian president to the negotiating table.

We strongly disagree. The evidence points in a different direction. If we follow the recommendations of this report, the Ukrainians won’t be the only ones caught in an escalating military conflict with Russia.

In the jargon of geopolitics, Putin enjoys “escalation dominance” in Ukraine: Whatever move we make, he can match it and go further. In August, when it looked as though Ukraine might rout the rebels, Putin increased the stakes and countered the Ukrainian military. Drawing on those lessons, some Russian security analysts are now pushing for a preemptive invasion of Ukraine, arguing that Russia should go all the way to Kiev before the West takes further action. One recent such plan suggested that Moscow was losing momentum in the conflict and should not waste more time on fruitless negotiations. The Western press coverage of the issue of lethal weapons can only convince those in Moscow pushing “full war and invasion now” that their approach is correct.

We also must consider the effect that arming Ukraine would have on our European allies. The report has created an uproar in Berlin and other European capitals, stoking concern that the Obama administration will take steps others are not ready for. If Putin concludes that transatlantic unity can be shattered, with the United States facing the possibility of going it alone in Ukraine, why would he change course?


Our problem is that we do not fully understand Putin’s calculus, just as he does not understand ours. In Putin’s view, the United States, the European Union and NATO have launched an economic and proxy war in Ukraine to weaken Russia and push it into a corner. As Valery Gerasimov, chief of staff of the Russian armed forces, has underscored, this is a hybrid, 21st-century conflict, in which financial sanctions, support for oppositional political movements and propaganda have all been transformed from diplomatic tools to instruments of war. Putin likely believes that any concession or compromise he makes will encourage the West to push further.

Anyone who argues that Putin’s wartime rhetoric is a bluff is making a very risky assumption. We should bear in mind the wars that Putin has waged in Chechnya and Georgia. Before Putin came to power, during the first Chechnya war, the Russian military collapsed, the people balked and President Boris Yeltsin’s government negotiated with the Chechens. In the second war, Putin put his intelligence service in charge and convinced Russians that the sacrifices were worth it. The war was brutal, and the military and civilian casualties high; there were no negotiations. Then, in 2008, Putin called NATO’s bluff on Georgia. Some reasoned that, if Putin knew Georgia would eventually become part of the alliance, he would refrain from moving against it militarily. But the West wasn’t prepared to fight for Georgia, and Putin was.

Since Georgia, Putin has prepared the Russian military to fight a regional war behind the ultimate shield of Russia’s nuclear arsenal. And he has spent a great deal of time and money telling his people that he is defending the Russian nation in Ukraine. His past actions suggest he will do everything he can to convince them that Russian military sacrifices in Ukraine are worth the cost. The delivery of lethal U.S. weapons to Ukraine would help Putin make that case. They will be part of the proof he needs.

We face a huge challenge in devising a strategy to deal with Russia that does not fuel this escalatory cycle and puts Ukraine on another path. We also need to draw bright lines around transatlantic unity and work to preserve it. It is hard to find effective alternatives to the current sanctions policy, but if we plunge headlong into sending weapons, we may lose our allies, and we may never have the opportunity to get things right.
Why do you think she changed her mind?
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,573
9,092
113
#27
Why do you think she changed her mind?
I truly believe there is a deep state that works toward some type of Global Governance. Both Republicans and Democrats that believe in the "New World Order".

Trump and Brexit, have put a HUGE dent on their nefarious plans. Trump TRULY believes in doing what's best for the AMERICAN people, NOT what's best for other nations. They HATE him for that. I think it's fair to say that this lady is a part of that. Maybe not even knowingly.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#28
I truly believe there is a deep state that works toward some type of Global Governance. Both Republicans and Democrats that believe in the "New World Order".

Trump and Brexit, have put a HUGE dent on their nefarious plans. Trump TRULY believes in doing what's best for the AMERICAN people, NOT what's best for other nations. They HATE him for that. I think it's fair to say that this lady is a part of that. Maybe not even knowingly.

Ahh you and I are kindred spirits on the deep state....this is irrefutable and not a theory....how much autonomy Trump has however is limited.

I maintain a cautious hold on any good expectations from Washington until more people wake up if in fact they do.
 
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
768
113
#29
This what Dr. Hill actually said:

Fiona Hill: (13:54)

I was not initially in 2015 before I joined the government. And I’m sure that many people on the committee have seen that I wrote an opinion piece with a colleague at the Brookings Institution in that juncture. Because I was very worried at that particular point in time that the Ukrainian military was not in a fit state to really take on board sophisticated weapons, be they defensive or offensive weapons. And I worried that there was not a long term sustainable plan given the overwhelming force that the Russians could apply against the Ukrainians. However, when I came into government in 2017 and started to interact with all of my colleagues in the Pentagon and you had Laura Cooper here yesterday, I realized in fact that there’d been an awful lot of work done on this. And that there was a clear and consistent plan for the sustainability long term of the Ukrainian military so I changed my mind.

Fiona Hill: (33:55)

So I was upset with him that he wasn’t fully telling us about all of the meetings that he was having. And he said to me, “but I’m briefing the president. I’m briefing chief of staff Mulvaney, I’m briefing secretary Pompeo and I’ve talked to ambassador Bolton. Who else do I have to deal with?” And the point is we have a robust interagency process that deals with Ukraine. It includes Mr. Holmes, it includes Ambassador Taylor, the [inaudible 00:34:21] in Ukraine, it includes a whole load of other people. But it struck me one yesterday when you put up on the screen ambassador Sondland’s emails and who was on these emails and he said, these the people who need to know that he was absolutely right. Because he was being involved in a domestic political errand and we were being involved in national security foreign policy. And those two things had just diverged.

------------------------------------

The testimony at 13:54 not negate her testimony in regards to the Presidential meddling to withhold a meeting and aid to Ukraine.

Transcript:

Transcript
 

Ghoti2

Well-known member
Nov 8, 2019
469
283
63
#30
When does an underling who works for the President (not the other way around) get to say he is "meddling?" I'm pretty sure he calls the shots, not her.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#31
This what Dr. Hill actually said:

Fiona Hill: (13:54)

I was not initially in 2015 before I joined the government. And I’m sure that many people on the committee have seen that I wrote an opinion piece with a colleague at the Brookings Institution in that juncture. Because I was very worried at that particular point in time that the Ukrainian military was not in a fit state to really take on board sophisticated weapons, be they defensive or offensive weapons. And I worried that there was not a long term sustainable plan given the overwhelming force that the Russians could apply against the Ukrainians. However, when I came into government in 2017 and started to interact with all of my colleagues in the Pentagon and you had Laura Cooper here yesterday, I realized in fact that there’d been an awful lot of work done on this. And that there was a clear and consistent plan for the sustainability long term of the Ukrainian military so I changed my mind.

Fiona Hill: (33:55)

So I was upset with him that he wasn’t fully telling us about all of the meetings that he was having. And he said to me, “but I’m briefing the president. I’m briefing chief of staff Mulvaney, I’m briefing secretary Pompeo and I’ve talked to ambassador Bolton. Who else do I have to deal with?” And the point is we have a robust interagency process that deals with Ukraine. It includes Mr. Holmes, it includes Ambassador Taylor, the [inaudible 00:34:21] in Ukraine, it includes a whole load of other people. But it struck me one yesterday when you put up on the screen ambassador Sondland’s emails and who was on these emails and he said, these the people who need to know that he was absolutely right. Because he was being involved in a domestic political errand and we were being involved in national security foreign policy. And those two things had just diverged.

------------------------------------

The testimony at 13:54 not negate her testimony in regards to the Presidential meddling to withhold a meeting and aid to Ukraine.

Transcript:

Transcript
I am going to have to study this a bit more.
I just think we need to maintain credibility in our views by sticking to the facts.
 
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
768
113
#32
When does an underling who works for the President (not the other way around) get to say he is "meddling?" I'm pretty sure he calls the shots, not her.
If you had watched the hearings you would have understood that Dr. Hill never said the President was meddling, I said he was meddling, the whole hearings attest to the fact Trump wanted an announcement on the Biden's by Ukraine. I sat through the whole series of hearings.

In my mind there no doubt that what was reported in the hearings is true and factual, that there was pressure on Ukraine to announce investigations into the Biden's in an attempt at damaging Joe Biden's run for the Democratic nominee.

"Political errand" is exactly what the 3 amigo's were on as Dr. Hill characterized it.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
#34
Oh it is a circus alright... a nice distraction while the real damage continues to be done behind the scenes.

Liberty is being assaulted and first amendment rights are slowly being chipped away and this is my worry because we know that when the USA is no longer a free society the only thing that awaits is the slave state conceived and implemented while the populace is distracted.
You have that right....the last true free society and when it is gone it will never return....Many hate America and would see us burn....Google or do a search on ALL the contributions the U.S. has made in the world and the impact (good things) that have come to the world through this bastion of freedom!
 

Ghoti2

Well-known member
Nov 8, 2019
469
283
63
#35
If you had watched the hearings you would have understood that Dr. Hill never said the President was meddling, I said he was meddling, the whole hearings attest to the fact Trump wanted an announcement on the Biden's by Ukraine. I sat through the whole series of hearings.

In my mind there no doubt that what was reported in the hearings is true and factual, that there was pressure on Ukraine to announce investigations into the Biden's in an attempt at damaging Joe Biden's run for the Democratic nominee.

"Political errand" is exactly what the 3 amigo's were on as Dr. Hill characterized it.
You must have gotten the idea of "meddling" from somewhere.... and all of those people you suffered through, worked for the President, not the other way around.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#36
You have that right....the last true free society and when it is gone it will never return....Many hate America and would see us burn....Google or do a search on ALL the contributions the U.S. has made in the world and the impact (good things) that have come to the world through this bastion of freedom!
The hate is jealousy.
Freedom will be gone forever, I agree, a matter of time. :(
 

KhedetOrthos

Active member
Dec 13, 2019
284
158
43
#37
What a Joke!

SHE, and Obama withheld funds to Ukraine, and military aid, resulting in the Russian invasion and annexation of Crimea, beginnings of invasion in the rest of Ukraine, and the murder of almost 300 people by a Russian missile hitting a plane over Ukraine.

So she withheld aid Trump GAVE the aid to Ukraine, and HE'S under investigation?! I know there are tons of what Lenin termed "useful idiots" out there, but how people can remain so willfully ignorant is beyond me.
Essentially they’ve been trying to impeach President Trump for what Biden/Obama/Clinton actually did.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,771
113
#38
When does an underling who works for the President (not the other way around) get to say he is "meddling?" I'm pretty sure he calls the shots, not her.
As a matter of fact Fiona Hill stated the the Russians wanted to delegitimize the President: "The Russians’ interests are frankly to delegitimize our entire presidency.… The goal of the Russians [in 2016] was really to put whoever became the president — by trying to tip their hands on one side of the scale — under a cloud."

"Fiona Hill: Russia's goal to 'delegitimize our entire presidency'". Fox News Video. November 21, 2019. Retrieved November 21, 2019. (Italicizing of the word “whoever” denotes Hill’s own verbal emphasis.)

Which is exactly what the Democrats have been doing regarding Trump's presidency. Which means that they were the ones colluding with Russia. We know that both Obama and Hillary jeopardized American national security by handing over a huge amount of uranium to Russia in return for *Clinton Cash*. So in fact the Mueller investigation and the Impeachment process should have directed at Obama and Hillary.